Out of character thread III

[FactionHeir]

Err my own character traits file is heavy modded with fixing a wealth of trait issues, so I don't know if you really want my own copy :p

I'll upload a copy of the character traits file shortly onto the PBM upload space though which will be a completely default one with only this change.
I hope that medifix does not do any changes to the character traits at the moment as those will otherwise be overridden.

If you want my own file instead though, let me know.

[econ21]

Err my own character traits file is heavy modded with fixing a wealth of trait issues, so I don't know if you really want my own copy :p

I'll upload a copy of the character traits file shortly onto the PBM upload space though which will be a completely default one with only this change.
I hope that medifix does not do any changes to the character traits at the moment as those will otherwise be overridden.

If you want my own file instead though, let me know.

Ah, ok - maybe hold on that. Thanks for the offer but I believe pretty much all medifix does is change character traits so over-writing it would not be a good idea. Let's leave this be for a while. A few zero piety avatars is rather fitting for an excommunicated faction.

I'm hoping the 2nd patch will be savegame compatible and help avoid some of these issues.

[FactionHeir]

Actually if you send me your character traits file with medifix installed, I can incorporate the fix and send it back to you for distribution

(i don't have medifix installed at the moment)

Ah, I just checked the link for the thread which lists medifix changes to traits:

*BoringSpeaker actually does something now, it used to have 0 effect for all 3 levels. A general that is a poor
speaker has a negative effect on authority and morale, if he ends up really boring.

*Inspiring speaker tweaked to give you a slight morale boost at the highest level.

*Governors that stay in settlements with farms, mines and trade will slowly increase their knowledge and skill
in that area. Building the specific buildings still gives you points, but it is now actually possible to become good farmers,
miners and traders if you spend your career doing just that.

I can do those fixes myself quickly for you and add the piety issue to it. Maybe also NaturalPrincess if you want (so we don't just get wretches :p )

[econ21]

The medifix mod we are using can be downloaded here:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/medifix120.rar

IIRC, it's just two text files - traits and ancillaries. If you can edit the medifix trait file to avoid the zero piety problem (and the zero charm princess) that would be good. But to be honest, I had expected medifix would solve those problems - if you find it has indeed corrected them, then we might query whether we have installed it properly or something.

[OverKnight]

Could the fact that the character spawned while we're excommed have anything to do with his lack of Piety? We've had other adoptees with loads of Piety. Is this an unforseen effect of the Papal Smackdown?

Ohhh and if we're fixing broken traits can we. . .

Wait. . .I forgot political marriage

[FactionHeir]

OK, I looked at the file and medifix attempted to fix it but half the triggers were lacking the trait addition.
I basically overwrote all the adoption/birth/marriage triggers with mine to add the religionstarter trait to all of them.
Also fixed the princess issue (which medifix actually also tried to fix but made a mistake in)

Uploading onto pbm filespace as we speak. Please note that the file goes directly into your DATA directory and you need to run m2tw with something like that:
D:\Medieval\medieval2.exe --io.file_first
exactly as I typed just with directory adjusted to your directory where medieval2.exe is found.

[TinCow]

Since the Pope is possibly facing his impending doom, I am going to do the following: If Heinrich is victorious and kills the Pope, I will allow him to choose who to support at the next Papal election. (Check the college after you whack him!) I think that would represent a 'victory' in the Investiture Controversy.

In such a situation, I would like to see that power given permanently to the Emperor, so that all future Emperors in this game get to choose who the Reich votes for in Papal elections. That seems like a proper historical reward. Of course, this will have to be done by Charter Amendment, and that likely wouldn't pass if we voted on it in-character. On an OOC basis, is there any support for this idea? If so, we could vote it in next election without any in-character discussion.

[FactionHeir]

OK its up now.
Just follow the instructions I posted above and it should affect all characters in game. (at least it did when I did change half-way through my moorish campaign and recently in my danish campaign)

If some characters still end up with 0 piety for whatever reason, select the character while he stands outside of town, open console and type "give_trait this ReligionStarter" without the "".

BTW I won't be around for the next maybe 20 hours (might get a little bit of time in 8 hours) because I'll be covering a duty around London.

[Ignoramus]

I did a test, and all the new avatars appear to go to Bavaria. So it appears that finally we have four secure houses.

I'm just hoping I get a general soon, as things are moving so quickly now.

[Stuperman]

I'm just hoping I get a general soon, as things are moving so quickly now.

I know what you mean, with no avatar it feel a little like you are following the story, not in it, I just hope I get one before it's all over. At this rate, we will be done before Prinz Henry reign is over.

[StoneCold]

Which is why the peace party must be stronger, it will drag out the game and not blitz thru it.... :D I would want the game to last at least till the Mongols appear. But I am just reading it as a story. :P I understand the main reason for the blitz early game was to get avatars, and you guys are still short of them, so it is a balance of sort.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Which is why the peace party must be stronger, it will drag out the game and not blitz thru it.... :D I would want the game to last at least till the Mongols appear. But I am just reading it as a story. :P I understand the main reason for the blitz early game was to get avatars, and you guys are still short of them, so it is a balance of sort.

I fully intend to play my next avatar as the pretty much exact opposite of Heinrich, so the peace party should be represented fairly well.

I originally intended to have Heinrich go out in a blaze of glory during the final battle with Gregory, but I realized that I'm simply having too much fun playing as him to give him up.

-edit- TinCow, not like my opinion matters or anything but I'm all for your charter amendment.

[OverKnight]

Well it's been a busy day. . .Otto crushed some Venetians, was scarred, got married, became a Duke, participated in a legal conspiracy to launch a war of choice, dabbled in constitutional law, declared war on the Holy See, was excommunicated, was denounced by his mentor and former liege, squabbled with his new subjects, and adopted a son.

Very tiring. . .I'm going to bed.

Thanks for the great drama folks.

Edit: GH, I think they're going to be talking about Krazy Kaiser Heinrich for a long time in the Empire.

[nazgul3]

Oh this is great lol..i love the fact that we have taken over rome. Gives a reall buzz about the place and gives a chance for people really to take sides.

As to stuperman....IDK i will find a sword somewhere i am sure they are not in short supply after the battles and upcoming wars..Or if u prefer i fight like Jet Li and just drop kick everyone i see lol

[Stuperman]

As to stuperman....IDK i will find a sword somewhere i am sure they are not in short supply after the battles and upcoming wars..Or if u prefer i fight like Jet Li and just drop kick everyone i see lol

LOL, yeah, I didn't mean to take anything away from your speach, but I thought the atmosphere needed to be lightened a little.

[AussieGiant]

Hi Everyone,

I'm just reporting in from Perth Australia.

The holiday is going well and I can see I am missing out on a lot.

I'm going to try and catch up with as much as possible but I can't see too much contributing going on until I back in Switzerland on the 3rd of April.

I have to find out if Leopold has a son or an avatar has turned up for me.

Seems the elections went well. Thanks for taking my voting card Econ and congrats to TC for winning the election.

Speak to you all soon.

Cheers
AG

[Warluster]

yah! perth, perth is awesome! Are you likign it in perth? You should come to East Aus, its sunny in Queensland right now, as it is basiclly every day,every motnh every year..

[AussieGiant]

yah! perth, perth is awesome! Are you likign it in perth? You should come to East Aus, its sunny in Queensland right now, as it is basiclly every day,every motnh every year..

Yeah Warluster I'm a Perth boy so I'm visiting the parents :)

I'm going over to Sydney next week and then going up to Noosa for a week!!

The holiday is going well but I do miss getting on line and contributing to this game. It really is good fun.

I see we are also excommunicted at the moment. Nice work :)

Still no avatar... ah well.

[FactionHeir]

*the 6th elector of Bavaria sits, hoping the storm of emotion has passed, and wondering who the 5th elector of Bavaria is going to fight with no sword.*

That one's just simply great

[econ21]

At the risk of looking ignorant or spoiling what is to come, can someone explain OOC the in-game consequences of killing the Pope and taking Rome as we have done? Give me a nice description and I'll put quote it in the Citadel FAQ as a bonus.

TinCow, I am happy with your proposal for Heinrich (& future Emperors) to choose the new Pope, although as you will infer from my question, I am pretty clueless about the game mechanics of all this. My inclination would be for Heinrich to propose it in character - I am not sure it would fail, given that we are where we are.

[Ituralde]

I think TinCow ran a test in the first OOC thread, where he captured Rome in another campaign to see what happens in-game. I spent the last five minutes looking for it, but somehow the search function fails me every time and you have to wait 180 seconds between two searches.. So either somebody else finds it or TinCow can repeat what he found out back then. I remember most of it, but the summary back then was pretty accurate, no need to throw in vague stuff just to confuse people.

[econ21]

OK, I looked at the file and medifix attempted to fix it but half the triggers were lacking the trait addition.
I basically overwrote all the adoption/birth/marriage triggers with mine to add the religionstarter trait to all of them.
Also fixed the princess issue (which medifix actually also tried to fix but made a mistake in)

Uploading onto pbm filespace as we speak. Please note that the file goes directly into your DATA directory and you need to run m2tw with something like that:
D:\Medieval\medieval2.exe --io.file_first
exactly as I typed just with directory adjusted to your directory where medieval2.exe is found.

Thanks, Factionheir. To confirm for everyone else, the traits file you corrected is:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/...ter_traits.txt

Unless there is dissent, I propose everyone with an avatar use that file. I guess it's particularly important that the Chancellor does, but I think avatars may pop up after battles so we all should really use it.

If I understand correctly, we should back up our old traits file - the medifix one. And then overwrite it with the corrected file (it will be in your data directory). We can then run Medifix the way we used to (in my case, a desktop icon linked to a bat file which has the line "medieval2.exe --io.file_first").

I will wait to hear from TinCow that he is happy with all this.

[Kagemusha]

I could live with our ugly princesses and non believer Generals.It would keep good medieval feeling about the game.

[econ21]

I could live with our ugly princesses and non believer Generals.

Have some pity on future Ottos! And we have quite enough godless types in the PBM already.

[Kagemusha]

Have some pity on future Ottos! And we have quite enough godless types in the PBM already.

Allright,Allright! I guess il just have to live with the saints and babes then.

[nazgul3]

lol yea babes and saints is definatly better than ugly devils and foaming mouths :)

[TinCow]

Here's the post I made about the Papacy.

Ok, Papal Smackdown 2007 is over and here's what happened.

In the game I loaded from, the Pope was in Rome (their only city), which was lightly defended, and the Papacy also had two full stacks next to Rome. I attacked and auto-resolved the battle to take Rome, killing the Pope. Massacred Rome for good measure, Papal standing drops to 0, as expected. The next turn there was a Papal election. I had 80% of votes, so whoever I chose was going to be Pope. I actually voted for HRE instead of myself (Venice) as I thought it would be more realistic to our situation. My standing shot up to 2 from the top, obviously due to voting for the right guy. However, I was still excommed. The new Pope appeared in one of the two existing Papal stacks, which did not die when I took Rome. I sent three diplomats to speak with the Papacy and could not get ANY kind of response out of them. I offered ceasefire, Genoa, and 100,000 gold and they refused. I even tried to gift 100,000 and they refused, even though we had good relations.

Since they decided to be grumpy, I squashed the stack the new Pope was in. I captured the Pope (nice ransom for those guys, btw!) and executed him to make sure I got a new round. Next turn, Papal elections again. I vote for myself this time. Pope spawns in remaining stack, my Papal standing is at max, and I am notified that I have been reconciled. I then send a diplomat to the Papal stack and offer them Genoa as a gift. They accept, Papacy now has Genoa as their capital.

Never saw any 'mission' to give the Pope a territory, but that could have been because I was at war with them and/or the situation only lasted 2 turns anyway, too soon for the mission to spawn. Regardless, it worked in the end. It looks like the Pope will spawn in an existing Papal stack if one exists. I suspect if no stack exists, he will appear next to Rome by himself, as I have read elsewhere. Then it appears to be a simple matter of getting back in his good graces and gifting him the right province. I suspect that I could have reconciled with the first 'new' Pope if I had simply given it a few turns and waited for him to accept my gifts. Worst case scenario is that we cannot get him to reconcile us, in which case he won't accept a territory from us. In that situation, it appears the guaranteed reconciliation comes from electing your own Cardinal to the throne. If we can't manage to swing that vote, we could always whack the solo new Pope by Rome each turn until our Cardinal is the only one left, thus guaranteeing us the vote... LOL.

So, my analysis: definitely doable. Could be complex and annoying, could be quick and easy. Impossible to say without trying in our actual game.

I think the key is to make sure we vote for the winning Pope and then hiss his/her (LOL) ass to get back into their good graces. If we don't vote for the winner, it's probably in our interests to keep killing them until we do. This would be in-line with Heinrich, since I doubt he would accept a Pope that he didn't vote for.

I will install the traits file now.

[OverKnight]

The new character traits file seems to work. I went back to an old save and Elsebeth spawned with a 4 charm. I didn't get any adoptions though so I can't confirm piety.

So since Otto wants to marry a hottie, could we play the last few years over again? It's not like anything important has happened.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sounds good, TC.

I think what I'll do, after killing Gregory, is just play out the save and pick a new Pope right there (it should happen immediately after the old Pope kicks the bucket). If it's not someone I want, I'll just kill him off until I get Otterbach.

[OverKnight]

Do we have a diplomat in Italy to make peace? Last I knew there was one on his way to the Milanese and none on the mainland.