Out of character thread III

[econ21]

I think the key is to make sure we vote for the winning Pope and then kiss his/her (LOL) ass to get back into their good graces. If we don't vote for the winner, it's probably in our interests to keep killing them until we do. This would be in-line with Heinrich, since I doubt he would accept a Pope that he didn't vote for.

Thanks for giving me insight into how killing the Pope plays out, TinCow. So unlike MTW he respawns all on his lonesome rather than with a kickass army? It does not seem very sporting to kill him in that situation.

Prinz Henry has just made a speech in the Diet calling on the Chancellor NOT to facilitate a "keep killing them" strategy. Whether this leads to anything, we can let be resolved in character - which probably means it is up to you, TinCow, how you want things to play out.

Out of character, I personally think a sustained "backs to the wall" period of excommunication would be more fun to play out than a "whack a Pope" strategy, which I can't help feeling is a little "gamey". I'd actually love it if the AI sent waves of crusades against us (rather like the Monarchist Europe did against revolutionary France), but I suspect the "cooling off" crusading mechanics and lacksadaisical AI mean that won't happen.

[GeneralHankerchief]

The Tunis crusade is still ongoing, and most likely won't be finished anytime soon (Hungary is taking a land route - going west, crossing at Gibralter, and making its way east).

Personally, I'm conflicted on this choice of what to do after Gregory dies. From an IC perspective, the Kaiser will not be satisfied with anything less than a German taking the Seat. However, this will be very annoying and difficult OOC, and I do agree that it isn't very sporting.

Besides, I would like the chance to have another Papal flare-up later on in the game. Ah well, it's time to think of Heinrich's response.

[AussieGiant]

It's going to get pretty ugly if there are rounds of Papal elections in which Heinrich's preferred candiate is not selected and then the new pope gets killed all of a sudden.

I'm sure we are going to tear asunder the Diet sessions if anyone is implicated. *cough cough*

[Stuperman]

from what I remember, if you have 2 or 3 cardnials in the college and you vote for yourself, then you are usually set as far as putting your own pope in, but I usualle play on easy or medium, so I don't knoiw if that changes.

[OverKnight]

I think it's different if you're excommed. All our allies are non-catholic factions, except Sicily, and I doubt if any of the Catholic factions will vote for an Imperial cardinal, shockingly enough, if one is available.

It would be different if we had a majority of the Cardinals, but we only have two at the moment, AFAIK.

[Stuperman]

yeah, but the AI is stupud, and they see that your guy is leading and don't want to go against the majority.....

but true, being excommuniocated would probably change things.

[StoneCold]

Btw, will the Tunis Crusade be called off once the current pope is killed? If so, the IC situation might be different. The new pope could call a crusade on the HRE?

[Ituralde]

Last time I checked we didn't even have a Preferati. I would be okay to just make up some IC reasons for killing off Cardinals OOC, in that Heinrich persuaded the College as long as it took for a suitable candidate to appear.

My favourite solution though would be for a Spanish or Portugese Pope to spawn close to Rome, hire a bunch of mercenaries and take the city from us!

[FactionHeir]

Allies will vote for you if the relations between you and them is better than between them and another ally who has a preferati.

Crusades are only called off if the settlement is taken by a non muslim non excommed faction or all crusading armies are abandoned and the 10 turn joining limit is over. 10 turns cooldown between crusades.

I think whack-a-pope could be fun and instill some fear in other catholic nations and show how HRE is determined to show that the pope is to be part of the empire instead of a freelancing nation.

[Kagemusha]

Well i kind of doubt the whack the pope method will get much support in the Diet. Atleast GH had his fabricated reasoning for getting Gregory.But what kind of legal reasons we have to kill the follower?

[Ituralde]

It would be the same reason. Emperor Heinrich did not approve his appointment.

[Kagemusha]

Well Emperor Heinrich,just might run into little opposition in the Diet my friend.

[Ituralde]

Oh he sure will, but that has not stopped him in the past. Since there are no rulings about this case in our Charter, he as Emperor will have the final choice, to decree what is right and what is wrong. Either way, I'm looking forward to it!

[Kagemusha]

I think you are quite right.But charters can be amendment. I cant either wait to see the next Diet.Im sure it will be very intresting.

[FactionHeir]

I think you are quite right.But charters can be amendment. I cant either wait to see the next Diet.Im sure it will be very intresting.

Especially considering the greatly reduced number of edicts that can be proposed. Maybe GH and Otto will figure some more things that others will have to suggest edicts on so there is less chance of blocking all their plans.

[GeneralHankerchief]

What's ironic is I actually voted against that amendment.

-edit- Great story, OverKnight. I'm feeling more and more like Lucjan every day.

[TevashSzat]

If a crusade was called on us, it would suck pretty bad seeing all of the factions that are at war with us. We'd be hard pressed to fight to a stalemate. Lets just hope we are gonna get a pope that likes us and gets reconciled

[TinCow]

I would LOVE to see a Crusade called against us. However, that won't be until the next Chancellor's term.

The Crusade against Sicily will end this very turn for one simple reason... the Pope is about to die, so all factions but us will be reconciled. When Sicily is reconciled, the Crusade will end and the 10 turn counter will start.

Regarding Whack-A-Pope™, I'm not sure what to do. I would really like us to stay excommunicated for a while to leave us vulnerable for wars and Crusades. That said, I don't know what in-character method I would be able to employ to stop Heinrich from killing them. The solo Pope stacks may even besiege Rome when they spawn... we would have to fight them at that point, no matter what we want.

There's one more battle to go before Genoa. I'll send that off now and think on it.

[Stuperman]

I thought the plan was give the reconciled pope a city with in our empire, to help with the religion rating thing.

[StoneCold]

That was the plan if you guys managed to pick the right candidate and get reconciled, then you can give him a province. Then next best thing in terms of RP is to play out the entire getting excom thing, maybe get a crusade called on you too, until maybe Henrich dies?

[Dutch_guy]

Here's the save, note I am now besieging Thorn.

As stated in the Diet, the battle report will follow shortly.

[Ignoramus]

Guys, I really feel out of this. I go away for a day, and now it's 1154 already. It seems as if TinCow's Chancellorship is shooting along. I'm finding it very difficult to follow.

[Csargo]

I really enjoy reading this PBM you guys. Keep up the good work.

[OverKnight]

Ignoramus: Heh, I guess TC had some time to play on the weekend, which I know is an off-line time for you. I hope we've kept the proceedings clear so that it is easy to catch up. PM me if you have any questions.

Ichigo: Thanks! Always nice to hear from a fan. It was fun for me reading WotS, and I hope we're providing a good read here.

[TinCow]

You should be happy Ignoramus, the faster it goes the sooner you'll get an avatar again.

[FactionHeir]

I can't wait for the Library update :)

[GeneralHankerchief]

nazgul3, I have no idea how to deal with our little argument so I just said that you were stripped of your title in the Diet. However, of course, I do not want to do this OOC because we need all the players we can get. Any way the Kaiser could punish someone without an avatar?

(no, the battle has not been fought yet.)

[OverKnight]

Push him down to 7th Elector?

Decorum in the Diet is breaking down due to the unusual circumstances facing us.

The Fifth elector has a right to be angry and indignant, but you don't go around threatening a Monarch in the Medieval ages like that and expect to be breathing the next day. We need to remember that. If the 5th elector of Bavaria truly has murderous intent toward the Kaiser he should take it to PMs and not scream it to the heavens in the Diet.

Or maybe we should create a Tavern thread where electors could go and decompress without being executed for sedition?

Edit: GH what are doing here? Go fight that battle!

[nazgul3]

lol this is great..probably the best decision you guys ever made by taking rome...its soo much fun to challenge authority.. keep up the good work guys :)

[FactionHeir]

Execute him I say! ;)
Yeah, I guess you are kind of limited since he has no avatar, otherwise that would warrant a suicide mission (as one cannot otherwise kill off chars in M2TW)
Maybe strip him of votes for the next diet session?

This could be explained by the emperor banishing him to the Imperial Prison for a while