Imperial Diet II

[econ21]

Prinz Henry: A list of proposed edicts and their first two seconders has been posted at the entrance to this Diet:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...25&postcount=1

The deadline for edicts is 23.00 UK time on Tuesday.

I have seconded charter ammendents 6.2 and 6.3.

[FactionHeir]

*reads through the proposed edicts*

*scribbles secondment for edict 6.2*

[Ituralde]

Count Mandorf, I believe that the Edict proposed by Duke von Saxony merely states that the lands of the Crusaders be given to Stewards for caretaking for the duration of the Crusade. Coming from the midst of your Council I did not expect this harsh opposition to it.
While I agree to its spirit and would urge every Crusader to follow it, I am not sure whether it is a good idea to have it imposed by this body. Every Duke and Count should choose for himself whether he is willing to leave the runnings of his domains to his scribes or whether he puts it in the hands of a capable Steward. Many dangers will await you on your journey, so maybe it's prudent to appoint a successor.

That being said, I'm curious why you are so interested in my opinion on this particular matter. It's not as if I had any influence over it were I elected Chancellor and you seem to have made up your mind about my candidacy anyway?

[Kagemusha]

Dietrich takes the stand.

"Count Mandorf. I dont see my proposal as punisment in any way. My thoughts were strictly with what i see as best for the Reich. Same way as a neighbour takes good care of his neighbours house when the other one is on a journey,so should Reich take care of the lands of the brave crusaders,while they can hardly effectively control what is happening in their domains,when they are in far away lands, lacking contact to the Reich.
Dont you trust your country men to take care of Nurnberg while you are away? I trust mine and i cant see how we should handle the affairs of the Reich,when we will hardly know what is happening in the Holy Roman Empire, while we will we be in far away lands."

[econ21]

OOC:

The House of Swabia proposes the following:

OOC Charter Amendment 6.5: The Chancellor will use the "character_reset" command in the console to double the movement of crusading stacks (so long as they are not part of proper crusade missions). This amendment expires once Jerusalem falls to the crusaders.
Proposed: Prinz Henry
Seconded: 5th Elector of Swabia, 6th Elector of Swabia

The idea is to make the crusade about as fast as normal crusades, speeding up the time it takes us to get to Jersualem. Discussion should be in the OOC thread.

[Ignoramus]

The Sixth Elector of Swabia rises to his feet and addresses the Diet.

Mein electors, while I applaud the Crusade and those who take up the cross and fight for the Holy City, I cannot approve how the land that is wrested from the infidel is to be alotted.

Those fighting the infidel are paying with their own gold their retainers and will suffer much hardship and toil on their march to the Levant, that I think it only fair that if they chose to remain and defend the Holy City that they be granted the lands that they themselves have taken.

Charter Ammendment 6.6: "Any lands taken in the east by those on Crusade shall be assigned to those that took them. If two or more generals lead the assault, then the Council of Crusaders shall determine to whom the land is assigned."

[TinCow]

Frankly, Duke von Saxony, no, I do not trust that the the Steward of Bavaria will manage Nuremberg in a properly Christian manner while I am away. I respect Gerhard Steffen's intelligence and his skill in combat, but it is well known that he has no regard whatsoever for the Holy Father. It has been my objective for some time to turn Nuremberg into a place of pilgrimage for all Christians. How can a believe that a man who is notorious for his lack of piety will see these desires fulfilled?

Your Charter Amendment only helps those that it does not need to help in the first place. If any man believes his lands can be effectively managed by another while he is gone, then he is free to appoint a Steward or hand over his lands to his Duke. There is nothing that is stopping you from doing this. Yet those of us who believe that our personal orders are necessary to ensure that our lands are developed as we would wish them to be must be allowed to continue to exercise our authority. I assure you, my personal staff in Nuremberg will know exactly what to do and will be prompt in informing the Chancellor of the build queues.

This is not a matter of difficulties arising from our displacement from the lands of the Reich. This is a matter of removing our lawful rights to govern our own lands as we see fit. What is next? Shall we prevent any man from governing his lands if he so much as steps foot outside the borders of his province?

[Stuperman]

Charter Ammendment 6.6: "Any lands taken in the east by those on Crusade shall be assigned to those that took them. If two or more generals lead the assault, then the Council of Crusaders shall determine to whom the land is assigned."

I vehimently aoposed this ammendment, as it only serves to punish Austria which lacks enought family members to go on Crusade and defend their homeland. If you are unhappy with the Kaiser's distrobution of Settlements, I suggest you take it up with him.

I would also like to take this time to voice my opposition for Edict 6.2, the Chancellor has 3 regiments of spear militia, and 2 regiments of peasent crossbowmen, this, along with this body gaurd is more than enough to defend himself against the pope, Infact the Kaiser's Garison is as powerful as the entire Bavairan Household army at this point. The money would be better spent rebuilding the household armies than further garisoning a well defended, un-threatened city.

[ArchdukeEvan]

Admendment 6.6 is... as said before... only a way to drag Austria out of the Holy Land... a House-per-Town distripution is a fair... and un arguable... way of doing things...

5th Elector, you ask how could we have a Crusader Chancellor? I ask you how could we not?

if... as you have obviously not listened... you should look at your Scribes recording... I have said... all of my problems... in the form of questions... about a crusading Chancelor... that is all the more i will say to that question...

[OverKnight]

My Lords, Bavaria wishes to propose a House Edict:

Edict 6.5: The Chancellor must attempt to secure Byzantine military access for the Crusade. Florin payment (single or tribute) is authorized for this purpose, at the Chancellor's discretion. If this cannot be achieved, the Chancellor must give the Byzantines a gift of 200 florins tribute for 10 turns.
Proposed: Maximillian Mandorf
Seconded: Otto von Kassel, Gerhard Steffen

The Byzantine Empire is a neighbor and a Christian, if not Catholic, Empire. The Crusade will have to pass through their territories, but we should do what we can to soften the blow. This will help ensure that the Reich is not left with an enemy on its borders.

I also have my own edict to propose:

Edict 6.6: If a territory is to be used in negotiations with foreign powers, the Chancellor must first gain the permission of its rulers, the Kaiser for Imperial lands or the respective Duke for Duchy lands, to do so.

By proposing this I hope to clarify a matter not well covered in our Charter.

[Northnovas]

The Third Elector returns to the Diet and stands before the members...

I know the time is running late and before we close I wish to put forward an Edict proposed by my Duke and seconded by myself and the 5th Elector.
Edict 6.4:
Any decision that would lead to the excommunication of the Reich has to be authorized by a Diet vote, requiring a 2/3 majority.
Motion by Duke Leopold
Second by The Third and Fifth Elector of Austria

[TevashSzat]

I would like to second amendment 6.6

Maximillion makes a fine point of giving the conquered lands to whoever conquered them would make a fine incentive, but also think of this. It is most likely that whoever conquered the lands would be the ones defending it. How would you feel about defending the lands that you conquered but were given to another person? Furthermore, there is no point for anyone not in the crusade to govern any settlement as they would have limited information regarding what is occuring in the Holy Lands and would not be a suitable ruler.

I would further like to show my support for amendment 6.7 since myself as well as others would most likely not wish for excommunication that is unncessary as we will be forced to remove the current pope and then seek a more suitable one that may reconcile us

[Stuperman]

Maximillion makes a fine point of giving the conquered lands to whoever conquered them would make a fine incentive.

Maximillian makes no such point.

It is most likely that whoever conquered the lands would be the ones defending it. How would you feel about defending the lands that you conquered but were given to another person?

I feel that it is my duty to defend this great empire where ever I am needed, would you not fight for the riech just because it is defending your brother's land? And again I must point out that Austria, the smallest of the households, will gain no new territory in the east if this Charter amendment passes as they onle have 1 general of age ,and he must stay at home to defend it.

Furthermore, there is no point for anyone not in the crusade to govern any settlement as they would have limited information regarding what is occuring in the Holy Lands and would not be a suitable ruler.

Messengers will get through, and why must we punish those willing to risk everything for the salvation of the riech?

[TevashSzat]

Those fighting the infidel are paying with their own gold their retainers and will suffer much hardship and toil on their march to the Levant, that I think it only fair that if they chose to remain and defend the Holy City that they be granted the lands that they themselves have taken

I inferred that from this statement, that holding the lands that the crusaders have taken would make it more desirable to defend the Holy City.

As for the state of the House of Austria, it is regretabble that no one from the house shall join the crusade, but then again, life is not fair. It is simply fate that no more nobles have rose from the ranks to join the House. Also, is it not the Duke's own fault for not having children as early...

[Stuperman]

I believe that that was put forth by a fellow swabian elector.
after much thought I have realized this Charter Amendment would further complicate the crusade as Only lands the chancellor has control of are ones he can use in negotiation. This would mean that Prinz Henry would have to take our gift city, and not till after he gets the crown.

[Ignoramus]

The Sixth Elector of Swabia rises to his feet.

Mein fellow elector, Herr Steffen, I only seek to justly give to those what is rightfully theirs. Surely you would not begrudge those who take up the cross their right of conquest?

The Sixth Elector of Swabia resumes his seat.