Imperial Diet II

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: On the basis of responses recieved, if Charter Amendment 8.1 passes, then the Kaiser will appoint Friedrich Scherer as Duke of Swabia. Regardless, Friedrich as Steward is currently responsible for providing the standing orders for the Household Army of Swabia.

The Kaiser would be grateful if all governors could provide build queues for their settlements.

[Ituralde]

I thank our wise Emperor for granting us Ragusa. This will help secure our Southeastern border even more against Venetian aggressions.

Before I comment upon the other Edicts and Ammendments passed so far, let me put into formal wording my ideas about a Crusade I had earlier.

Edict 8.3:
As soon as possible a second Crusade to the Holy Lands should be called by Emperor Henry. The target would depend on the current situation but should be one of the places mentioned in the Emperors draft for the Kingdom of Outremere.
At least one Franconian and Austrian general should participate so that each House will be represented in this new Kingdom.

I believe this will not only serve to give the required push forward to securing more lands, but by that time reinforcements for our possessions might already be needed. This Edict will serve both purposes.

I agree with the proposals made by this body so far and support them. The one thing I can not agree to yet is Ulrich Hummel's proposed Ammendment. I can not pass judgement on it yet, because I am afraid there are not enough informations contained in it. Maybe Ulrich Hummel would care to elaborate on his ideas. Who will make up this Council of Crusaders he speaks of? What will happen if the original members of the Council decease, who will follow them and by what right? What falls under their influence, and how much influence will be left to the Diet and the Emperor concerning the goings in Outremere?
These are all viable questions that need to answered, before such an Ammendment can be seconded.

Furthermore I have to disagree with Mandorfs fears of Houses being too involved in the drafted Charter. It clearly says that the only independent military presence will be the King and his Army. The Crusading Counts will not be permitted to lead their own private wars. I agree that arrangements for the future should be made, but the presumptions made by Emperor Henry are much more to my liking than those of Count Mandorf. If a House should really become posessed by deamons and bring turmoil upon the Empire, we have several legislative steps, namely an Emergency Diet and the Edicts and Ammendments proposed there, to keep the situation under control, once it arises. I don't think a preemptive damnation of all Houses should be necessary.

[FactionHeir]

Servant:

Consider your edict seconded, my Duke

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: A list of edicts and their first two seconders has been posted at the entrance to the Diet:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...25&postcount=1

[TinCow]

OOC: Edict 8.2 was also seconded by Ulrich Hümmel (Ignoramus)

[OverKnight]

Gunther speaks:

My lord will second edict 8.3.

However, my lord would remind the Diet that any Catholic nation in good standing can join a Crusade. We still have have ex-Crusader armies from Scotland and England in our territory. Fortunately, neither nation is at war with us, but imagine if France marched a Crusader Army through our territory and we ecountered a similar situation with them.

[TevashSzat]

I am sorry for my absence these past few days for I was extremely busy with many matters and could not spend too much time within the Diet. It does seem that I will become the new Duke of the House of Swabia. I hope to further increase both the power of the Empire and the House.

From the look of things, a lot has happened the time that I was away and I shall be quick to get informed on what has happened during my absence.

[AussieGiant]

My Lord, gentlemen of the Diet.

Firstly my I congratulate two of our finest;

Otto von Kassel for his excellent management of the Reich and his amazing series of positive achievements.

Kaiser Henry for his excellent outline of how the Reich should conduct itself in the Holy Land and in general. I personally don't care for the concepts outlined by Lord Himmel. We are creating a "middle" strata of management that is going to complicate things in my opinion. In my opinion and as is usually the case, the Kaiser has thought this through. His outline is comprehensive enough and holds enough informantion to govern the region effectively AND provide flexibility and interest for all the Houses.

Lord Mandorf raises some points, and they should be considered. Still as Duke Leopold states, the Reich has more than enough "checks and balances" in place, AND they have been tested.

I will consider at this time what edicts I would like to put forward.

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: On the matter of the allocation of settlements in Outremer, I would make a couple of observations to Lord Mandorf.

First, it has been the practice of the Reich that allocations of settlements to Houses are permanent. Even if a settlement falls to an enemy, it is returned to the House that owned it. What is being proposed in Outremer is no more than a continuation of this practice. The reason for this practice is to give Houses a degree of autonomy and avoid giving the Kaiser excessive leverage. Speaking purely hypothetically, and not based on recent history at all, one could say that the possibility of rogue Kaiser is at least as likely as that of a rogue Duke.

Second, the settlements in Outremer will formally remain Imperial provinces, even though administered by the relevant House. The Crusader Counts who govern the provinces will be selected by the King of Outremer, who in turn is picked by the Kaiser at each full Diet session. Therefore the Kaiser does retain some indirect influence over how these settlements are governed.

In practical terms, the Kaiser hopes that the equal and fair partition of Outremer between the Houses will ensure their continued support for our presence there. Far from home, the crusaders remain vulnerable and will rely on future Diets and Chancellors to ensure that their defence is well resourced. The Kaiser believes that this is most likely if each House has a stake in this defence.

[OverKnight]

Gunther speaks:

After all this discussion of rogue nobles, my master has decided to propose a Charter Amendment that had been discussed in back channels (OOC thread) many years ago.

CA 8.3: In addition to the Kaiser, an Emergency Session of the Diet may be called by the Prinz, or if three of the four House leaders (Dukes or Stewards) agree to do so.

Please be aware that Duke Otto is not casting any doubts on Kaiser Henry, in fact my lord fully supports the Emperor and his agenda. However his personal experience in some past matters has led him to believe this might be a wise precaution to take.

[TinCow]

*The Bavarian lawyer, never lost for words, rises once again.*

I see wisdom in the words of the Diet Speaker. Indeed there is more precedent for a morally corrupt Kaiser than for an entire House fallen to the Devil. I will inform my Lord of this line of reasoning and I am sure he will agree that the Kaiser is right in these regards.

There is also much wisdom in Charter Amendment 8.3. Indeed, the reluctance of a corrupt Kaiser to call an Emergency Session caused much angst in this Diet in years past. By allowing a majority of the Dukes to call an Emergency Diet Session if they deem it necessary, we would be ensuring that no one man can pervert God's law in the Reich ever again. I do not believe this would be dangerously erode the Kaiser's powers either, as the simple ability to call an Emergency Session does not guarantee the passage of any legislation during that Session. This is prudent legislation and I hereby second it in the name of Lord Mandorf of Nuremburg.

[FactionHeir]

Servant:

Consider your amendment seconded by my master, Duke of Bavaria.
It will certainly prevent any future emperor from being immune to prosecution during their term as chancellor and ruin us all.

[Kagemusha]

representative of Count Von Mahren

Dear Electors.I have received an letter from my lord considering and edict proposal:

"Gentlemen.As im now departed from the Crusade.My oath for my now late Duke Von Saxony, about not entering the diet when crusading has been fullfilled and i will soon be present in the diet once more. I think that Franconia has deserved the honour to take Krakowa from Polish. Taking of this city would secure the Reichs eastern flank concerning Franconia and Austria for once and for all. Electors should conisder the misery of the Franconian people when Polish raiding parties are all the time destroying their harvest´s and pillaging their towns and villages.By taking of Krakow this can be stopped.

So i hereby propose Edict. 8.4 Franconia is allowed to capture the city of Krakow.Unless Pope directs and ultimatum for the Reich for the cessation of hostilities with Poland.

Count
Jonas Von Mahren

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

As much as it pains me to do so, I cannot support the proposed Charter Amendment 8.3.

Kaiser Heinrich is one man, my friends. Was one man. His corpse is now rotting, and has been so for a long while. He can do no more harm. Do you not trust the current Kaiser, Henry, do do the right thing? Has his term so far not been just? Do you not think him wise enough to choose the appropriate successors?

Yes, the power of the office has been transgressed. But we should punish the transgressor, not the office itself.

I also second Edict 8.4.

[Dutch_guy]

A Franconian servant enters


Günther von Kastillien shall also second von Mahren's edict 8.4, the Polish threat should be neutralized before the Russians decide to enter the fray.

The servant bows and leaves the Diet.

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst stands

I shall fourth Edict 8.4

I also second CA 8.3

I have not a lot to say for now, but am in full support of Franconia taking Krakow.

Prinz Jobst sits and leans over to Friedrich and whispers to him, then sits up

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: The list of edicts and amendments has been updated at the front of the Diet. (There was some confusion over edict numbering, but I trust the scribes have rectified that.)

The deadline for edicts is 2pm Thursday UK time. I believe some Houses have draft further Edicts in preparation - I urge them to submit them in a timely fashion.

[TevashSzat]

Fellow electors, after reviewing the current status of the House of Swabia, I have some announcements to make.

First, I wish to promote Ulrich to the title of the Count of Metz. He has served Swabia well and I do not hesitate rewarding those who deserve praise.

Secondly, I wish to propose Edict 8.5: The Swabian House army will be allowed to take one French settlement after the Pope has rescinded his threat of excommunication. However, should the French invade Swabia with an army greater than 1000 able bodied men or an army lead by a respected commander, the Swabian army shall destroy said army and then counterinvade French territories

I am a religious man and do not wish for the Empire to be excommunicated again yet the French are not good Catholics either. I shall abide by the Pope's wishes, but should the French test my patience, I will not stand by and let them pillage our lands and kill our people without revenge.

I heartily support Edict: 8.3 for every member of the Empire should have the right to increase their holdings fairly and defend themselves from unnecessary aggression should it be needed. Amendment 8.3 however, I cannot support. Kaiser Henry has been a great and wise ruler. I do not think that he will ignore serious situations and fail to call for an Emergency Session of the Diet. I myself would stand to gain a great deal of power should this Amendment pass, but should it do so, Emergency Sessions may be recklessly called which will slow down any current plans as we spend many days or weeks discussing what we will do.

[AussieGiant]

My Lord,

The House of Austria is in the process of finalising some legislation. It will be submitted before the deadline.

While I understand Lord Scherer's frustration, any undefined legislation that involves invading a foreign country in Europe can not be supported due to the threat of excommunication. I therefore could not support Edict 8.5

[FactionHeir]

Servant
My master's support for CA 8.3 is not borne out of animosity towards the current emperor Henry, long may he live, but as a backup plan for the future, when an emperor is less objective or becomes deranged. It is better to have this amendment in place now, than regret not having it later.

[Warluster]

I wish to second Edict 8.5

THat is all.

[Ituralde]

Let me just put forward those Edicts that I haves discussed within the House of Austria and there were seconded by the Count of Venice and the Count of Zagreb respectively.

Edict 8.6

During the next Chancellors term a group of merchants and priests shall be dispatched to at least one of the following places, preferrably both:
- The far reaches south of the great Saharan desert.
- The Nile upward in the south of Egypt.
A group should consist of at least three merchants and priests each.

Edict 8.7

The Chancellor shall try to find peace with the Venetians as soon as possible. A moderate amount of florins may be used to persuade them. Should the Venetians decline, subsequent raids towards their holdings in Durazzo and Thessalonica, resulting in possible razing or extermination of those cities, shall teach them the error of their ways.

Furthermore I will second Edict 8.5. This is the proper form to ask for French territories and as such I will support it. No one should have to suffer at the hands of their enemies without a chance to strike back!

[FactionHeir]

Servant

My master wishes to second edict 8.6

[AussieGiant]

My Lords,

I will second edicts 8.6 and 8.7..

[AussieGiant]

Standing again

I'd like to point out gentlemen that more than a few edicts do not mention excommunication as a valid cessation point.

I hope all members of the Diet and those in the Holy Land, will make the assumption that we will not plunge this Reich back into being excommunicated at the expense of regional attacks on our enemies!!?

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: This full session of the 8th Diet is now concluded. There will be a 24 hours period of voting on the edicts and amendments. Normal discussion may continue.

[TinCow]

*The Bavarian lawyer stands.*

The Count of Venice is right to be concerned about excommunication. I would like to remind all members of this Diet that the enacted Charter Amendment 6.7 specifically requires a 2/3 majority vote of the Diet before any decision that can lead to excommunication can be made. This Amendment specifically supersedes the Household Armies amendment and the right of the Chancellor or Dukes to declare war on enemies within their lands. Therefore anyone who undertakes an act which results in excommunication without first receiving the consent of 2/3 of this Diet will surely be subject to the fullest prosecution of the law by this very Diet. I believe this, combined with the Reich's sincere desire to remain in communion with the Church, will be more than enough to prevent any such thing form occurring again.

[AussieGiant]

The Count of Venice stands with a rue smile on his face

I just love the way lawyers communicate. It's so precise...and direct.

Looking in the Bavarian lawyers direction

You seem to know your topic my good sir. Could I tempt to you join my legal team, with of course the most appropriate and hefty increase in pay? Or do I have to make you an offer you can't refuse?

[Stuperman]

Gerhard steffen breaks his relitive silence to speak to the lawyer from his camp.

So should the french invade while the papal order stands, are we to just give them our land? or do they want our women too?

OOC: suposed to be sarcastic

[AussieGiant]

Without standing the Count of Venice immediately replies

What you do my good sir is anything you wish...that doesn't break and edict or get this Reich excommunicated!!