Out of character thread IV

[AussieGiant]

AG - We have to have something for the Second Elector to be shocked over.

Otto might be overreacting IC, but the use of console commands, cheating, is something that concerns me OOC. The fact that this was done without consulting anyone is also concerning.

Whether there's a story for it or not, it doesn't paper over the fact that it is a major disruption of the PBM.

Yes "OK" I'm wondering if I can blow this way out of proportion and cause another drama :)

With no avatar I'm losing a bit of momentum with what is going on...

Could anyone who remembers what I was doing a month ago give me a series of one word descriptions for how I was playing this guy? :)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Annoying.

[AussieGiant]

Annoying.

I see...

....GH would you like to take a seat on the couch here and tell me about your experiences, let your emotions go, become one with your feelings.

Anything else more descriptive about the character you remmemmber....? :)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ghost of Kaiser Heinrich:

You see, I had plans. Big plans. Plans that, unfortunately, needed a majority to pass. If I was elected Chancellor in 1140 then it would have been so much easier to execute them. Instead, I have to plot and scheme, do my work with the help of others, and when the Pope was finally killed it was much more difficult to get rid of the other ones. If I had full military control then we would have had Otterbach on the Papal seat right now.

But nooooooo, I get this little whiny Austrian Elector with no land to call his own and no military experience declaring his support for my rival EVEN BEFORE THE ELECTION BEGINS. Bah.

(Oh, TinCow, expect my reply to your PM later tonight.)

[AussieGiant]

I see...

...now, your doing well GH...

...go on, tell me what else happened.

Turning to the nurse in the room and whispering

Get the sedative ready I think we have a live one here.

So "My Kaiser" what happened next?

[Warluster]

Hey Ituralde, I finished the battle, and have uploaded the the next save file.

The battle was a complete succes, and nowUlrich can be knighted!

[TinCow]

There's no way for me to respond to the Teuton issue IC because what was done makes absolutely no sense IC. They weren't ever under Hans' control, they were Crusaders. One group was even the fellows who had become friends with Max and toured around the Reich with him during his Chancellorship. I can't think of any coherent way to explain their absence. Furthermore, you have deprived the Crusaders of all of their cavalry. It took time for me to arrange the armies so that they had a balanced for and I intentionally recruited those Teutons and marched them all the way down there to take part in the Crusade. This is ridiculous, return them.

[StoneCold]

TC, I thought that group of Teutons is still under you. They are the more battered unit in your army group rt?

I think IC wise is as the story by FH, the Teutons are dispatch by Henry to escort Hans to the Crusader army of Henry, but Hans hijack it to Leopold's camp. Why can't it be explained that way? Force wise, I agree that it must be return and I see not indication that Ituralde says he will keep it for his used.

[Ituralde]

I believe the main mistake that I made, was that I forgot were those two units of Teutonic Knights had come from. I even once missed them when I was checking TC's post which told about the Crusader army makeup. That's why I so easily agreed to Hans abduction of those forces for his own means. I figured that he would recieve some kind of escort to travel through hostile land and then forgot where I had taken them from.

On top of that comes the fact that I have then used console commands to restore the game to the way I had initially planned it out. I did not do this to gain an advantage, but just to retrace the steps of one character, so that I could do him the favour of added roleplay for his character. I only had the story FactionHeir had developed in mind and wanted to assist. This was intended as a one-time thing under these special circumstances. Seeing the disturbances it has caused I already regret it. I also realize that this can be seen as a breach of trust, and rightfully so. I can only say that I am sorry for what I've done and I want to apologize for the inconvience my actions have caused.

I will adress the issues adressed at Leopold IC, but feel that before I do that I would like to put aside some issues OOC first. After all this is a game, and it's about fun and I really like playing with every one of you and would not want that someone has to hold a grudge against me.
Like I said it was a one-time thing and I will definetly not do it again. I tried to explain my reasons and I hope you can understand them and accept my apology for the mistakes I have made.


The way I see it we can now either accept the IC explanation written by FactionHeir or I retrace the steps of the Teutonic Knights again to return them to the Crusade. The second option will not erase the allegation made against Leopold, but would be a compromise for my tampering with the game.

Please let me know what you think, and while you're at it, orders for the Crusaders concerning Sofia and that Hungarian army are appreciated too.

[Northnovas]

I feel there has been enough explaining of the situation and we can move on. I wasn't even aware of the counsel command and see everyone's point it would be my concern to for future play.
However, this can be dealt with IC for the explanation and looking at the last save the knights can easily catch up the Crusaders. If the Crusaders avoid conflict with the Hungarians passing through their ZOC will slow them down and the knights will catch up in a couple turns.
Let the IC's work it out for their actions and reactions has already mentioned.

[TinCow]

On top of that comes the fact that I have then used console commands to restore the game to the way I had initially planned it out. I did not do this to gain an advantage, but just to retrace the steps of one character, so that I could do him the favour of added roleplay for his character. I only had the story FactionHeir had developed in mind and wanted to assist. This was intended as a one-time thing under these special circumstances. Seeing the disturbances it has caused I already regret it. I also realize that this can be seen as a breach of trust, and rightfully so. I can only say that I am sorry for what I've done and I want to apologize for the inconvience my actions have caused.

Actually, I had no problems at all with the use of the console command. Your reasons for doing so were fully justified. If the decision to remove the Teutons had been approved of, I doubt anyone would have objected. It was a creative use of the game commands to fix an error that would not have been made IC. The only issue for me was whether the Teutons were in the Crusade or not, not how they left.

Certainly, do not use console commands regularly, but if you need to do something to fix an error that does not make IC sense or which was simply the result of a lapse of concentration, I encourage you to do so again. Just make sure people will agree with end result before you do it!

[FactionHeir]

In the light of patch 1.2 being delayed indefinitely, I still have been continuing work on fixing the issues the new character trait and ancillaries files for 1.2 have brought up and making new additions to plug a few holes in triggers.
After over a week of testing (which is ~8 hours a day) in 2 full campaigns, I have not run into problems anymore that I didn't fix and think its time for an update.

Note the files are completely compatible with 1.1 (which is what I'm using anyway) and will not be causing problems in relation to compatibility.

As such, please download following file for your KOTR:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/KOTRfix12a.rar

Please do not download KOTRfix12.rar as this was a faulty upload (i missed a file in there and noticed after pressing upload)

Please also take note that there are 2 new files in the rar. Those files are just for the game to recognize the new traits introduced by the leaked 1.2 patch (InquisitorSuccess and GoodSaboteur). They are to stay with the other text files in the data directory.


[edit]
Ituralde, I sent you some extra lines to fix up retroactively the old problem regarding heretics. Check your PMs

[OverKnight]

1174 is shaping up to be an interesting year; wayward Englishmen, knights returned with interest and the Crusade awash in a sea of pink.

Are we going to have a Chancellor's report soon? I'm curious as to how all this happened.

[Ituralde]

Chancellor Report will come this evening.
The savegame is with FLYdude.

[econ21]

In the light of patch 1.2 being delayed indefinitely, I still have been continuing work on fixing the issues the new character trait and ancillaries files for 1.2 have brought up and making new additions to plug a few holes in triggers.

Thanks for doing all this work, Factionheir. From what you've seen of the file, do you think we will be able to continue our campaign on the 1.2 patch when it finally comes out?

I am little worried about the reports of problems over the vices and virtues - here's one comment in the Citadel:

Note, however, that people have reported some oddities when using old savegames with 1.2. Most notably, you may have all your traits become the wrong thing: it seems they changed the trait file (likely added and/or removed some) which means that traits in save games all get shifted around weirdly. It's recommended to start a new campaign in order to avoid those potential weird things.

[FactionHeir]

Using 1.2 data files only for a 1.1 version isn't causing any problems for me so far.

Actually there was one oddity in starting a new campaign that for some reason my trigger trait TolerantWoman was never triggered on a successful diplomacy mission (used to have it on 20%), but on 100% it would always work. I think I shall try it with 99% and see what it does. It worked in the old file though. Might also be chance working against, me but then the PretentiousWoman thing always fired. Well, random number generators, what can I say :D

I got myself a comparison tool and from what I can see, there are no major shiftings/changes from the 1.1 to 1.2 file. Possibly only happens if you had the actual 1.2 leaked installed. I'm running 1.1 with mainly 1.2 data files to check for inconsistencies and basically what I can do to improve the game on my end.

As such, I can't say for sure what will happen if we actually did install the leaked patch in its completeness, as there might be some weird things. For example I cannot use the new resources file from 1.2 on a running 1.1 campaign without starting a new one (will CTD otherwise). But the 1.2 resoruce file is kind of messed anyway since it removes almost all resources off the map and spawns some random gold resources over europe. Many changes are also only in the 1.2 exe file (anti traits, shield fix), so I didn't get to test those with 1.1.

I would recommend not going to the leaked version though as the AI isn't improved and at some points more buggy (especially when AI brings reinforcements) and also its total peace in all my current VH campaigns...boring :p

As for VnV in specific, except for that oddity with TolerantWoman, I haven't seen any problems. All works fine on my end. Btw, I did do a rework on the pagan magician similar to the one I pmed you about.

Oh, one thing I actually wanted to ask about. If Hans gets to command a siege battle, would it be OK if I used my fix to play it on a smaller scale? Can't run the higher settlements on mine (till late may possibly when I get my new laptop from overseas - and even then I'm not sure if the prob will persist)

[econ21]

If Hans gets to command a siege battle, would it be OK if I used my fix to play it on a smaller scale? Can't run the higher settlements on mine ...

I'm not quite sure what you can't run - do you mean the large unit settings causes problems for you in sieges? I thought that the unit settings was fixed in the savegame, in which case you would be stuck with it. If you mean something else or you have a workaround, I'm fine with whatever you do as long as you can return a savegame that others can continue to use with the original settings.

[OverKnight]

The chronology is current up to 1174. I will be happy to link to battle reports once they are completed (hint, hint). I've also added some more links regarding the Crusade and clarified some other events.

As always, feel free to mention any errors or omissions, I'm already losing track of how many battles have been fought near Thorn (8? ).

Edit: Good battle report FLYdude, I guess if I'd been holed up in a city for 8 years I'd be cranky too.

[FactionHeir]

I'm not quite sure what you can't run - do you mean the large unit settings causes problems for you in sieges? I thought that the unit settings was fixed in the savegame, in which case you would be stuck with it. If you mean something else or you have a workaround, I'm fine with whatever you do as long as you can return a savegame that others can continue to use with the original settings.

Sieges larger than large town and larger than castle cause problems for me, already on small unit sizes, so I'll already be hard pressed with large ones there, but I think it should be fine.
Its basically only local, so as to the lag tutorial I wrote. That is, it would only affect the battle on my end but not for anyone else.

[StoneCold]

Overknight, I think FH's avatar is also moving down to follow Crusade, maybe the crusader council should let him take command of those knights, again...

[OverKnight]

Ah well there's what's happening in the stories thread, and there's what I see from the latest save. Given the delay in council deliberations I'd figured I'd get my say in before the situation progresses too far.

Even if Otto knew Hans was leading them, I doubt he would entrust the safety and leadership of the crusaders to the prodigal son who put them in danger in the first place.

Either way it might be an interesting story of it's own.

[Stuperman]

My very late battle report is up here

I'm back in action (at a decent computer) and catching up (stories, ect.).

I'm the proud uncle of young Micheal, who is healthy and so is my sis (mom).

edot: to fix link

[econ21]

Good to have you back, Stuperman, and congratulations on your nephew.


On another matter, having read the latest Ituralde/factionheir story and looked at the savegame kotr1174-2.zip, I am a little confused. Why is Hans not with the knights moving to the crusade? I thought from the latest story he would be. I think we should try to keep the stories and savegames consistent, otherwise other players don't know what's going on.

[StoneCold]

I think it is consistent. The way I see it was Ituralde sent the knights off to the crusade first, before the battle of Budapest, as can be seen from the units involved in the battle. Hans was in the battle and left after the battle. I think that was a turn later.

[econ21]

OK, thanks - I was confused by Hans talking to the Teutonic captain but now I remember he was transfered to Hans' personal escort. From the savegame, it's not clear how Hans can safely join the crusade given where he is.

[StoneCold]

Maybe wait for FH to reply. Seems to me that he wanted his avatar to strike out by himself. :P

[FactionHeir]

StoneCold is quite right actually, not much to add besides that I hope you are all enjoying the story :D

[TevashSzat]

That level 8ish heretic called Miachel something is sure proving to be hard to denounce, how did he appear? Was he a high level priest gone bad or just randomly came?

[FactionHeir]

Chances are he either got good rolls on turning heretic or he still has some priest ancillaries (currently it is not possible to remove ancillaries from characters via data files) which boost his piety.
Michel de Lannoy has 7 piety btw. Not sure about traits/retinues as I spent the last 20 minutes ending the turn to spy on him (yes it took me that long to end turn....bloody diplomats bickering about with campaign map lag) but got no info for some odd reason. Even though I made the spy level 10.

Previously, priests used to stay at the piety level when they went heretic and possibly gain 0-3 extra piety from heretic specific ancillaries. I changed the system to remove all priest traits and make them true heretics, so when they do turn heretic, they roll anew for NaturalHereticSkill and GrwoingConviction. They still have their base chance of getting heretic ancillaries.

[Ituralde]

Michel de Lannoy was a former priest of ours preaching in the Bern region, who turned heretic some two turns ago.

Should I wait with the Crusade movement until you guys have made up your minds about it? Or just assume the wisest course of action from what I have heard of your discussions?
It's the only thing left to do, before hitting End Turn.