KotR Out of Character Thread V

[TinCow]

The setup for econ21 is, frankly, really bad. Because the solitary Turkomen unit is the main army, he won't get to deploy on the battlefield. Unless he is ridiculously lucky and the southeast corner of the map is a defensive hill, he's going to have to rush his men all over the place just to get into a defense. By the time they get there, they'll be tired and probably will have very little rest before they are assaulted. The HRE army is also much weaker than it looks. The peaseant crossbowmen, pilgrims, and peasant archers will be of relatively little value in the fighting, and just those five units account for over 30% of his entire manpower. The Turkomen will be of relatively little use in a melee as well, meaning that 40% of all his men will be useless when the lines converge.

The more I look at it, the less I like it. It's a bad, bad situation.

[FactionHeir]

If Henry was the main army, I'd say it would have been an easy victory, as he would have decent morale Turkopoles as opposed to the normal very bad morale ones. Those could be great then to charge into the enemy rear and enticing the generals to run after them. TC is quite right to say though that a lot of the army is 'junk'. Actually, pavise crossbows are too in melee. I think even when they were defending my walls in my Sicilian campaign, they got overrun by either merc spearmen or a depleted unit of dismounted huscarls.

Miracles are always possible though. I had for example a unit of crusader knights with no experience get to experience 7 in one battle against an egyptian jihad army because they killed ~400 men with their repeated charges while the AI was passively walking towards my position. Maybe econ is able to exploit that with his bodyguard. Risky though, as bodyguards are slower than anything the Egyptian army here has. Kind of wish he had any mailed knights left.

Btw, I noticed he didn't post the save, so might not be possible to get the exact Egyptian army to attack me.

[TinCow]

Kind of wish he had any mailed knights left.

He does. There's a full strength double silver chevroned group of mailed knights with the main army. I expect they will be used to depletion.

[FactionHeir]

Ahhh I didn't see those. Well then there's hope :)
400 on small unit sizes ~= 800 on large. That means those mailed knights with luck could take out this many infantry. With a lot of luck.

[OverKnight]

Hmmmm. . .I expected econ to manuever around Aleppo a bit and use local superiority in numbers to wear down the Egyptians before going after the main force. Stick and move, if you will.

I'm worried too, even if we have a victory in this battle, odds are good our forces will be severely depleted in the Levant. Adana and Acre aren't quite up to the task yet of replenishing our losses.

Perhaps I should have played my last turn as Chancellor a bit more conservatively by keeping the southern armies around Acre and have Hummel go directly to Adana.

Of course that's hindsight talking. To be honest I thought we'd drained the Egyptians manpower a lot more than it seems we actually have. All those Jihad victories went to my head, I guess.

Still if anyone can pull this out of the fire, it's econ.

Edit: Using a single unit to "blockade" cities is an interesting tactic. Horse archers are a good choice because they're like battlecruisers, they can outrun anything bigger than them, and outshoot anything faster.

[gibsonsg91921]

hi is there any way i can join this as an agent avatar? i dont have 1.1 so i dont want to play battles, but i want to have a part of this cuz its cool.

[OverKnight]

Welcome!

Do you own the game, if so what version? If it's 1.2, that is what we're now using.

[FactionHeir]

We are using 1.02, not 1.01 anymore.

OK We did, except for 1 full stack north of Adana. But since econ gave them cash and this is an attack during the egyptian turn, its kind of expected. Especially since the AI isn't bound to hiring limits as the human is (in terms of unit pool)

[OverKnight]

True FH, but in 1200, before I handed over the reins, there were still Egyptian armies massing around Antioch. . .

The pic from my last report:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The money will certainly help them, but unless they hire mercs it will be in the near future, not just yet.

Whatever the outcome, Outremer is sure to stay interesting.

Edit: I was unaware that the AI ignores manpower pools, that might explain why they blow through the money we give them so fast.

[FactionHeir]

Yup, saw that pic. The captain led stack in the north is the one I was talking about. The incoming third stacks are city garrisons as far as I know, meaning we could sneak through the back door and take all their settlements.

[Stig]

Best would be to retreat on Acre and double the strength. From their see what they do. Attack that city east of Acre, then move on Aleppo and Antioch. Jeruzalem is a buffer state for us. Once the northern Egyptian troops are defeated it's over for them.

[Warluster]

Yep, I like Stig's idea.

Though why don't we turn around and attack Cairo or their capital?

[FactionHeir]

Because we want to let them live and not win the game just yet I think. Although personally I'm not opposed to playing post victory conditions. Not that anything is different then, as we have the glory bonus already from taking Rome.

[Warluster]

Yeah, once we finish it just press continue! Are we striving to complete the victory conditions? We already have Rome!

[econ21]

My plan is to leave the Egyptians with Gaza (the fortress just east of Jerusalem) so there will always be a credible Islamic threat to Jerusalem. I want Outremer to be a defensive kingdom, at least for now. I want to take the five settlements I mentioned as constituting Outremer, but then hunker down and wait for the Mongols. Of course, other Chancellors and the next Diet may overrule things, but that's the game plan for the next 9 turns. It's purely an OOC thing - what I think will help us have a fun campaign that continues until we face the Timurids and get to America.

Battle report coming up.

[FactionHeir]

Battle report coming up.

Never knew you had breakfast at 1:12 am in the morning econ ;)

So did you get em on the first try? Any generals die?

[Ignoramus]

Great battle, econ!

And now Ulrich has three gold chevrons!

[econ21]

It was actually an easy battle - the main tension was not losing poor old Henry. The reason is that predicted by Tincow, who was on the ball, as usual:

Unless he is ridiculously lucky and the southeast corner of the map is a defensive hill...

And I was very reckless, as I had no idea that would be the terrain until I blundered into the battle.

But it was great fun - it reminded me of those old MTW battles, where you fend off repeated waves of enemies.

I'll upload the savegame, so people can play it for themselves if they want and so they can see where things stand after 1200 (just press end turn).

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1200-3.zip

[FactionHeir]

Congrats to a battle well fought econ. I was especially surprised at the early routing of the Egyptians on Ulrich's side.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Indeed, very nice going. I particularly liked the splitting of the report. Made for more dramatic reading.

[FactionHeir]

Indeed, very nice going. I particularly liked the splitting of the report. Made for more dramatic reading.

I kept pressing refresh actually instead of going to sleep

[Northnovas]

YES!, that was a dramatic read! Nice write up. I really didn't know what the second read was going to bring. Enjoyed it very much and an excellent win.

[TevashSzat]

Congrats on your win. I hope when the Mongols come they will bring more battles like this one

[gibsonsg91921]

Welcome!

Do you own the game, if so what version? If it's 1.2, that is what we're now using.

well i have 1.0 but if i dont play any battles does it make a difference? it seems like nongeneral avatars dont do much but pass edicts as electors and such.

[gibsonsg91921]

if i have any choice, can i be in austria, and like a priest, diplomat, merchant? i want to live a while if theres no one else waiting to get in

[Ituralde]

You're very welcome to join the House of Austria as an Elector gibsonsg91921. We have had a lot of experience with avatarless players in the past, so that should be no problem. If you consider Austrias mercantile focus you can always choose to take a merchant as your avatar. Be advised though, that he could be driven out of business quite easily.

Either way I would be glad to have you on port as one more member of the happy Austrian family. Just look at Northnovas and AussieGiant, they're doing a pretty good job without havin an avatar!

[OverKnight]

The History is now updated with the latest events. If you want any events added, and I'm always looking for suggestions, let me know.

When I was reviewing recent events, I found it funny that Ulrich Hummel is now the Count of the town he exterminated. I'm sure there was much celebration in Metz when they learned who their new master was.

[AussieGiant]

You go you good thing Econ!!

Kipper smoked, would you like tea and scones with those?

And the 100% ratio continues gentlemen!! I was truely surprised Econ pulled that one out of his trousers.

Fantastic write up also.

I wonder how much more dramtic we can make this game?

[gibsonsg91921]

alright, ill be a merchant elector of austria. whats my name and am i the eigth elector, ninth, etc?

[FactionHeir]

Well I took the challenge and fought econ's battle. First two waves were surprisingly easy and they routed very quickly. Almost too quickly for my taste. After running them down, I noticed that wave 3 was idling on a hill and doing nothing:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I waited a few minutes and then sent off my captain-general turkopoles to try and lure them down. It worked to some extent but each time they'd stop again. I'm suspecting its the attacking passive AI culprit bug coupled with "I have siege equip so I will stand and wait for you" AI decision. As you can see in the next screen, they go dangerously close to my lines but after taking a few shots retreated back into a valley.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Since my turkopoles lost about 50 men luring them, I didn't want to risk losing the captain general and sent my pavise crossbows forward to shoot down his cav, hoping that would entice him. As you can see it didn't...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Well I got bored once the timer started running down and decided to stop shooting them and rush them with all I got instead. Almost the moment the lines touched, they mass routed. Chased nearly all of them down and got a clear victory:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Egypt also ended up accepting my ransom of ~13k