KotR Out of Character Thread V

[AussieGiant]

Well done Econ and OK.

GH also a good read.

[FactionHeir]

Posted a short story just now. Hope its a good enough read. It might not be as half-way through my touchpad decided to become randomly active and overwrote a few praragraphs I had written (bloody notepad, no proper revert function). That kind of brought me out of the feel for the story and it might read a bit awkward. Let me know how I can improve it.

[econ21]

Good work, Factionheir. Henry has replied to Hans's letter in a PM. (It may be worth quoting the correspondence in the story thread? Your call.)

On Karl Zin, I am assuming that he goes to Northnovas and that AussieGiant is waiting for Leopold's son to come of age?

If so, Northnovas: do you want to go on the crusade to Damascus? Or do you want to stay in Europe? If the latter, we might have to send a von Mahren son as an honorary Austrian. Or does Ituralde want to go?

AussieGiant: do you have a preference to be in Europe or Outremer when your avatar spawns (not sure if it will be on my watch or not, but it is good to be prepared)?

My impression is that generals are stretched thin in Europe: it would be good to have two per House; one for the conquests that all Houses seem to want to carry out; the other to watch the shop while the main army is off conquering (and avoid the problem we currently have with Budapest being under threat). Right now it is more like one per House. So basically, eight player generals minimum in Europe plus perhaps the Prince to lead his Army of the Interior.

In Outremer, we need one player general per House for role-playing reasons. We have enough generals to fight the battles right now, but Henry and Otto are old so soonish only Ulrich will be left. Three player generals is probably a minimum for defence purposes - covering north, south and east. (And maybe some spares if we go head to head with the Mongols...)

With so many spare avatars, I am wondering if we should go on a new recruitment drive for more players.

[Ignoramus]

Ulrich doesn't mind if he's the only general in the Levant .

[AussieGiant]

Things are picking up for Austria Econ.

Thanks for all the information.

I'd prefer Arnold to be spawning in Europe but as a preference with his father. If Ituralde wants to go on Crusade then I will follow his lead.

Behind the scene's young Arnold is currently squiring with Gerhard Steffen

The Merchant of Venice (has anyone been realising my character backround) is mentoring the young man before he is sent to his father before be hopefully Knighted by the old man.

[Ituralde]

Great news econ21!!

The Crusade is called and we finally have a new avatar. Like you presumed he will go to Northnovas. As suggested by you Karl Zirn will definetly be joining the Crusade. At least Leopold will urge him to do so. What I'll do with Leopold though I'm not certain. Maybe it would be time to give the younger generals a chance to prove themselves. But then, there needs to be someone to guide them, no?
I think I'll settle for an in-between solution right now. Leopold will be calling out for all Austrian generals and nobles to join him in Thessalonica and will join the Crusade from there. I hope this is possible. He may want to travel to the Holy Land but will take no part in the actual battle for Damascus. Maybe a little spiritual travel to Jerusalem or some such IC. I really don't know yet.

I'm torn between what I would do, what Leopold would do and what others would want to do that join the Crusade. I mean it would not be fun if Leopold would be fighting all the battles, now would it?

Still pondering here...

[AussieGiant]

Well hell, Dad, who's stayin home to mind the women?

Are the von Mahren's in or out?

I'd prefer to be with you when I spawn.

You're going to have to start making some decisions there big fella

[econ21]

All right, it is 1216 and finally we have a lot of battles that other players can fight. I will follow Overknight's lead and set this up as a free for all relay race.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/1216-3.zip

The battles are:

(1) xdeathfire should storm Rheims. This should be an easy fight.

(2) Ituralde should storm Thessalonica. This should be a nightmare - it's defended by a full stack of spearmen. If Ituralde does not want to attack, that's fine - he can PM me with what he wants to do (e.g. build more towers, pull out, whatever).

(3) Dutch_guy should have a pop at some of the three or is it four Polish armies around Krakow. This is a very tactical situation, so you are free to set it up as you wish. The biggest Polish army looks extremely powerful to me (you have a spy, so can assess their strengths), so don't try to take them all on at the same time. You have full movement points, so move and fight as much as you like, then upload the save when you are done. Notice that Thorn is under siege by the nefarious Russians, so what you want to do about that is up to you (ie pull back the FHA or press on to Krakow).

(4) Ignoramus can sally and take a pop at the Turks near Adana. This will be a very minor fight. I would take the minimum force you need and keep some men at Adana as their is a Turkish spy there and he may cause a revolt if it is too lightly garrisoned.

I don't want this turn to bog down with people disappearing with the savegame, failing to upload saves etc. So these are the rules:

(1) First come, first served. If you can play your battle within a few hours of posting, download the revelant save and then - when you have successfully loaded it up (ie confirmed that you really have 1.2 and your cat has not ate your mouse etc), then post here to tell the other players it is your go.

(2) I need screenshots for information. Please take a screenshot of the pre-battle screen and take a note of the pre-battle odds ratio (put your mouse over the red/blue bar on the pre-battle screen). Also take a screenshot of the post-battle report. Or just note down the numbers of the two armies and their losses for my Chancellor's report table. If you don't provide that simple information, your battle won't count.

(3) When you have finished your battle and taken the screenshots, please upload a new zip or winrar save so that another player can fight their battle. If you do not upload a savegame within 6 hours of posting here that it is your go, then it is not your go anymore - whether you have fought the battle or not, it does not count and someone else can pick up the savegame. (You can go again later.)

I hope those arrangements are clear and not too bossy.

The 48 hour clock starts now for everyone. After that I will pick up the savegame and move to 1218 regardless of whether everyone has fought their battles.

None of the battles are strictly necessary, so we can return to them in 1218 if people can't find the time to do them now.

[AussieGiant]

Econ,

There is only one response to this.

Ja Wohl Herr Kommandant!!

[Ituralde]

I think I have made up my mind concerning Leopolds future. That's all I'm gonna say about it for now.

I won't take the save this turn. Could you please build two more Siege Towers and two more Ladders, econ21? I'll come back to the battle once it's 1218. Looks really nasty, I have to agree.

[econ21]

Ituralde - I've just PMd you in character, but basically, I think Leopold should race back to Ragusa to start the crusade; let Kagemusha carry on the siege with the FHA.

Ja Wohl Herr Kommandant!!

I know, I'm sorry. But in my defence, this will be a blitzkrieg Chancellorship - I may even be able to finish my reign within seven days of starting!

[FactionHeir]

Good work, Factionheir. Henry has replied to Hans's letter in a PM. (It may be worth quoting the correspondence in the story thread? Your call.)

Good idea, but I think I'll leave that till after I take Constantinople as I won't be getting any letters while in hostile waters now and Hungarian territory. Also takes some time for people to travel and bring those letters

I might post them up before that if I don't get to take the city in your term though...

[econ21]

Until recently, I thought GH's reign as emperor was the most eventful and fun time of this PBM, but with the stories that have been published in these few days, I think Henry's reign very much rivals that of GH.

Well, bear in mind it was GH who had the idea for the Heinrich seance and keeping Jerusalem from the Pope; the rest just improvised from there. GH has his idea long ago, hence my out of character allusion to his "cylon resurrection", a reference to something sinister that no one picked up on given the benign nature of Conrad Salier. I tried in character to stall the transfer of Jerusalem at the end of Overknight's reign so the story could take-off, but Otto and the crusaders did not buy it.

Really these Heinrich and Henry's reigns are rather like WW1 and WW2 - they could be regarded as just one long running event with a pause in middle.

PS: I've stolen your sig, GH: it's good advertising for this PBM.

[OverKnight]

Battle Report is up for Jerusalem 1210.

Enjoy.

Gotta go, online documentation course until noon.

[AussieGiant]

Ituralde - I've just PMd you in character, but basically, I think Leopold should race back to Ragusa to start the crusade; let Kagemusha carry on the siege with the FHA.



I know, I'm sorry. But in my defence, this will be a blitzkrieg Chancellorship - I may even be able to finish my reign within seven days of starting!

...and I respect you for it sir, you're a machine and that is a good thing. The faster you go the quicker Arnold comes of age and I'm back from my travels this Friday and I have a long weekend coming up!!

Maintain the pressure good sir!! Whip em all!!

Ituralde!! Come on man, you gotta spill the beans dude! ;-)

[Stuperman]

Looks like it has been a busy few years, Glad to be rid of the milanese, I hope they maintain the peace.

I'm glad that we are starting to solve the avatar issue.

econ: IC I've offered GH forces from the BHA to escort him on his journey to the east, someone will contact you with his chioce when he has made them, assuming he's still in rome/this plan is possible, and he wants some men to bring with him.

[FactionHeir]

Actually in retrospect, did you check how demanding it would be to make the Milanese our vassals? In my SP campaigns, usually an AI faction offering you ceasefire after being reduced to a few regions will have that condition listed as "balanced" or "demanding" at best when you put it on the table. When that happens, giving them map info and a small amount of gold ensures a happy protectorate. I should note this does not work for shadow factions, i.e. factions which you normally would have to destroy in short campaigns or whose starting town you'd have to own to win.

[Kagemusha]

Ituralde it seems our plan is going into smithereens.How can we twist Von Mahren to join just Austria just like that? Ofcourse one way would be that he would have to since Leopold just wants to go to crusade,but it would be still illogigal for him to name Mahren as Steward if he goes away.We have to come up with something.

[FactionHeir]

Well considering Mahren is adopted, he could find out more about his roots and that they actually lie in Austria and him feeling compelled to join his actual house with permission of his duke or so. Or supporting Austria instead of Franconia on several decisions and being outcast from Franconia.
There are many options, but few will make complete sense.

[Ituralde]

Just send me the opener Kagemusha, I'll handle the rest. Jonas von Mahren will not be forced to do anything. We'll see how it evolves and I think the result should be statisfying to all sides.

Edit: Just read the latest Chancellor Report. Hm.. our talk should happen before all of those events. We can even come up with a solution for those problems then.

[econ21]

Looking at the time our three generals with battles last visited the Org, I am guessing the best play order is:

1. Dutch_guy - Euro time
2. Xdeathfire - US time?
3. Ignoramus - Oz time

But basically, whoever logs on and has a spare hour, take the save and then upload a new one, posting the link here. Thanks.

[OverKnight]

Thanks to King Otto’s sacking of Jerusalem at the end of 1214, we began the year with twice our usual net income: 42,353 florins.

Wait, I sacked the city in 1210, are you thinking of those Egyptians I ransomed? Or is the date wrong? Or did I just sack Jerusalem for a 2nd time? If that's the case, I wonder if I can get a second grail, to complete the set.

[FactionHeir]

The difference is holy_chalice vs holy_grail :p
Tbh, this PBM is the first time I actually seen the grail. Usually only tend to get the chalice.
Oh, and only one unique artifact per game, so as long as the ancillary exists, no same one will spawn (or at least is not supposed to) until it gets lost, say the general carrying it dies.

[econ21]

Wait, I sacked the city in 1210, are you thinking of those Egyptians I ransomed?

Um, scratch that - I was confused. On reflection, I don't actually know why our income went up from 24596 in 1214 (about what it has been throughout my reign) to 42353 in 1216. Very curious. (And probably very temporary).

BTW: Overknight, have you checked the latest savegame? Otto is carrying round a bucketful of priceless relics.

[FactionHeir]

Do you have screenshots of the financial summary scroll of 1212, 1214 and 1216? That would help finding where its comning from.
I'm guessing sacking and ransom may have played their own little roles there, but 18k? Hmmm I guess it could be possible as it takes your current treasury and subtracts from that and gives you that next turn. Weird financial mechanics anyway.

As for relics, most of them are kind of useless, giving you just 1 piety. Prevents you from picking up better ancillaries possibly (if that 8 anc limit from RTW is still in)

[econ21]

I just checked and the explanation for the high starting balance is very banal: half was left over from the previous turn. My last save for 1214 has 22,000 florins left. I am not sure why I did not spend it. I did make the "no brainer" builds in that year, but held off on the more marginal ones (the abbey, cathedral, economic buildings that only give a 100 florin return or whatever).

I must say the HRE economy is very robust - we've had mines popping up everywhere (are minerals discovered during the game or was extraction always possible?).

I have not quite worked out in which circumstances economic buildings are worthwhile - for example, for Rome most further investments are very expensive and have a very modest return, but the dockyards promise to be extremely lucrative. I have a vague memory that some towns are "twinned" with others for trade, so trade may be lucrative for towns twinned with non-hostiles and worthless for towns twinned with our enemies. Paved roads usually don't have an economic return (in my English games, for example) but the one I am building for Antioch promises to turn the province around economically. I have a lot to learn here.

One reason I spared Milan is because a nice small trading partner may be lucrative.

I've been giving the AI factions 10k per year, rather than 100k at the last Diet. That may help them maintain decent armies. Where factions have over 50k already, I don't give them anymore. The Papal states were bankrupt last time we talked so I gave them 50k to spend on Jerusalem. They have pretty large armies to maintain from one settlement.

EDIT: Just to confirm, under the Charter, I am obliged to take at least three volunteer generals on the crusade. I will be taking Duke Leopold, Conrad Salier, Karl Zirn and Count von Hamburg. I am not sure how many of the young Hamburgs and Mahrens to take. May be one a piece? As resurrection hulks...

[FactionHeir]

One change in 1.02 from 1.01 is that mines can now be built on any geological resource, so this is why you see the availability of mines recently.
Usually trade building return is small, but it depends on the connections a city has and its distance from its capital.
For example my current Russian campaign has Novgorod and Stockholm at over 6k a turn with high taxes (not vh) where my capital is currently at Halych. What matters most is trade agreements or owning a settlement, which is even better. Rome for example can trade with Naples, Florence, Bologna, Cagliari, Ajaccio, Palermo and Genoa, maybe even Marseille through various direct routes. I think the level of the trade building affects the number of lucrative routes or so.

[econ21]

Usually trade building return is small, but it depends on the connections a city has and its distance from its capital.

Just checking: is it good to be close to the capital? (or bad?)

What matters most is trade agreements or owning a settlement, which is even better.

Oh dear: so my reasoning about leaving Milan free so it could trade with us was completely false? At least in early TW games, I thought trade was more lucrative if external (with settlements you don't own) rather than internal.

[FactionHeir]

Trade is always higher if you own the place in M2TW. Example: I had London, Caen, Rennes, and Bruges and most settlements around there except Antwerp. So while I had a trade agreement with the Danes, relations deteriorated and they attacked me. Once I took that city off them, my overall income from the cities around increased somewhat. Could of course be due to something else, but I think its because of ownership.

The closer to the capital, the better the income, due to lower corruption and ability to charge higher taxes. One of the reasons why European factions taking crusade settlements have low income there.
For merchants on the other hand its the other way around. That is, if the resource is also not found close to the capital. For example sugar/cotton won't give us too high incomes in Antioch as Palermo is fairly close to Rome. However those resource have a relatively high base income regardless, so its not all that bad. If our capital was say in Frankfurt, we'd get higher incomes on those.

[Stuperman]

Meh, Having another Castle that could make DFK's would have been nice but... leaving the Milanese alone now mean higher Global rep, and Gerhard won't suffer as much for being stuck there (ajaccio) while the castle is subdued.

And with some luck the Milanese will catch us off gaurd later, and make for some interesting gameplay.