Imperial Diet III

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

Are you mad?! That army was on CRUSADE! If they bothered to stop and actually attack us, half of their force would desert and the Danes would face instant excommunication! They were simply passing through, much like how we passed through Byzantine land on the way to Jerusalem. What does it say about our character if we block, nay, AMBUSH an army created for a most Holy purpose?

[Stig]

Ansehelm von Kastilien

Herr Salier is right. That army was no treat to us. In the past years we had the remains of both English and Scottish Crusaders in our country, and they did not attack us. That army wouldn't attack us. Prinz Jobst made a mistake in attacking it.
Next to that we don't have the armies to attack the Danes. The FHA is busy in the east, where it's fighting an unsupported war because some people are obsessed by crusading ... even though they destroy their friends.

[Stuperman]

Conrad Salier:
Are you mad?! That army was on CRUSADE!

So they had a piece of paper saying they wouldn't attack signed by man whose power's come from a 1200 year old book, is that suposed to mean something? You seem to have a lot of faith in a man who wanted us germans to MURDER HIS FATHER for him.

Conrad Salier:
If they bothered to stop and actually attack us, half of their force would desert and the Danes would face instant excommunication! They were simply passing through, much like how we passed through Byzantine land on the way to Jerusalem.

We've been excommunicated twice now, and as a result are the most powerful nation in the World, don't you think the Danes know this?

Conrad Salier:
What does it say about our character if we block, nay, AMBUSH an army created for a most Holy purpose?

Bah, 'holy purposes' Gerhard Spits on the floor, it says that is for Varius.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

So they had a piece of paper saying they wouldn't attack signed by man whose power's come from a 1200 year old book, is that suposed to mean something?

By demeaning the Bible, you thereby are doubting or even possibly denying the divinity of Christ Himself. I would just like to point that out to everyone in the Diet.

We've been excommunicated twice now, and as a result are the most powerful nation in the World, don't you think the Danes know this?

We're the most powerful nation in the world in spite of our excommunications, not because of them. Surely you remember the rioting in Milan right after Kaiser Heinrich attacked Rome, where thousands of people were killed and we barely held onto the city?

Bah, 'holy purposes' Gerhard Spits on the floor, it says that is for Varius.

Since you will not listen to religion, it looks as if I am going to have to resort to logic on this one.

1. First of all, the Danes were supposedly on a Crusade, meaning that they stated to the world that their target was Damascus.

2. They had plenty of opportunities to attack our Franconian cities closest to their territory but did not, continuing to proceed through our land quickly and peacefully.

3. If, in fact, they did attack us, the following would happen:
- Many of their Crusaders, demoralized by the attack on a fellow Crusading nation, would desert in protest.
- They would be excommunicated by the Pope. Not a position they want to be in considering their current state of affairs.
- They would face the wrath of the Holy Roman Empire, or as you put it, "the most powerful nation in the world."

Again, I do not see how anyone but the Prinz is at fault here.

[Stuperman]

OOC: Gerhard does have 0 pity...

If religion prevents us from defending our boarders, allows foriegn armies to kill our citizenry without cause, and refuses to recognize all the Reich has done for it, why should I listen to it?

I have served this Holy Roman Empire for decades, pushed for prosparity with the church, and I've been 'rewarded' with a blight that kills the grass benieth my feet, a face that makes my wife turn away in horror, and unending sickness.

My loyalties lie with Germany, and her empire, not to some old fart in a funny hat.

[AussieGiant]

Arnold looks at the two men from the House of Bavaria and then at his father...they exchange words...Arnold then looks over at Otto the Duke of Bavaria

My lord Duke, it seems you have some internal Bavarian issues to resolve. May I suggest a solid day of jousting to calm their nerves?

Glance back at the two Bavaria gentlemen

You do realise gentlemen you are from the same house? You know that right?

I'd like to point out that Prinz Jobst attitude is more of a concern than the unfortunate accident in the forest. Having read the battle report there is no great achievement in having Knights carve up Spearmen at close quarters in a forest.

My Lord Gerhard,

You were my tutor and mentor in the last years before I came of age. Your not making sense at the moment my Lord. Your words and thoughts are not what you taught me in these last few years. I'm sure that foul witch has caused you some pain but I'm sure our priests can correct them in time.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

As I have already discussed, Gerhard, we were in no danger of attack from the Danes.

[Stuperman]

Doubling over in pain brought on my a severe coughing fit, Gerhard's nose begins to bleed at the violence of the heaves comming from his lungs. He finally regains his composure, and responds holding his sleeve to his nose.

Perhaps not, but one German life is worth more than the whole populus of the Danish kingdom. If they were really there doing 'gods work' those norsemen wouldn't need to attack and kill HRE patrols.

[Stig]

Ansehelm

You should remember that we, or in this case the Prinz, attacked the Danes, they did not attack us.

[FactionHeir]

I am sure that the exact events of this incident will be elucidated once edict 9.4 is passed and spies are sent to Arhus and the battlesite.

[Stig]

I am sure that this does not matter as we know that the Prinz attacked the Danes, he said so himself:

"I swaer I'm going to take the prince out myself, got it?"

"CHARGE!" roared josb't and Fritz repeated the order. They spurred their horses on, thundering down the slopes of a hill, narrowly avoding trees.

"I've come to kill you Harald"

We don't need to investigate

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst stands

Gentleman, I have these final words to say.

I didn't attack them, they attacked me first, so I counter attacked.

I was too kill Harald because of thought he was the Dnaish Prince, the traitor.

How am I supposed to know they were on Crusade!? I had been camping in the forests of North Germany for two years, no messages could get through, I had no clue of the happenings elsewhere!

Fellow electors, today I leave to North Germany again, I wish others to know I now have deep regret on trying to defend my own army, and also have deep regret that I tried to save myself. ANd I have great sorrow for killing Harald, I wish he had've killed me now.

I am leaving Rome, The Diet for at least another 5 years, and all of you who don't believe I was trying to save myself, I fel regret for defending myself.

Goodbye Diet, I leave for Dijon or North Germany.

Prinz Jobst gets up, and whispers in one of his aides ears, who rushes off, then leaves as Fritz escorts him out.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

Yes, it's common for those who counter-attack to ambush their completely unsuspecting foe. My mistake.

[TinCow]

(OOC: My previous post this Diet session was before I took Lothar Steffen as my new avatar. Please pretend that post was made by Mandorf's lawyer or something otherwise there will be inconsistencies in my RP.)

*A teenager with a surprisingly bushy mustache stands, looking bored.*

After all the lecturing I have received from Godwine and Gottfried, my mentor and tutor... or is it Gottfried and Godwine? Hells, they're bloody identical except for those ridiculous hats...

*Lothar turns to a nearby servant.*

Tell Gottfried he must shave his beard immediately.

*The servant bows and turns to go.*

Wait! I'm not sure whether Gottfried is my mentor or my tutor, so that won't help at all. *Lothar scratches his head for a moment.* Nevermind, I shall deal with this later.

*Lothar sits down, seeming pleased with himself. It takes him a moment to realize the entire Diet is silent and looking at him.*

OH! Right, yes... the Imperial Diet... *Lothar gives a short chuckle. No one else seems amused. He rolls his eyes.* (By the hells this place is full stodgy old bastards. It's a wonder that half of them don't drop dead of sheer boredom every morning.)

POLITICS! DIPLOMACY! Yes, this is the wise and venerable council of the Holy Roman Empire. Let us discuss treaties and religion, certainly the watchwords of a successful life. Prinz Jobst may have violated Imperial law by his actions, but what damage has it really caused us? Excommunication? HAH! That didn't last bloody long at all! Poor relationships with our fellow Catholics? Half of them are at war with us already! Those who are not at war with us refrain from taking up arms simply because they know we would crush them. *Lothar slams his fist on a table and grins broadly.*

I forget most of what Godfriend and Gottwine (Gottfried and Godwine?) have droned on about, but two things I know well: war and money! The Reich thrives on both. One begets the other and vice versa in a never ending cycle. (Or was that virtue and piety?) It has always been this way and so it will always be. As a consequence of Prinz Jobst's actions, we are now at war with the Danes.

GOOD! Let's damned well crush them! They hold rich lands. If they are too weak to hold them, then that is their own fault. Oh yes, I suppose some of you will drone on and on about our reputation... *Lothar rolls his eyes.* Well the Danes are the enemies of our English allies! What will our oh so peaceful neighbors think if we don't come to the aid of our most afflicted friends? Surely aiding England by conquering the Danish provinces will make others think better of us.

*Lothar shrugs.* And if not, well, there's plenty of German steel to share with the rest of them! *He smiles and looks pleased with himself.* (Oh, summation! Hells, Gottwit... Godwit?... always said to do a summation at the end.)

WAR AND MONEY! YES! We need them... or want them... or something like that. Prinz Jobst's actions, right or wrong, provide us with the perfect opportunity. We should be thanking him, not scorning him. Right. That's it. I'm done.

*Lothar sits down. The Diet is still dead quiet and most of the Electors are looking at him quizzically. He leans over to the man sitting next to him.* (Is this almost over yet?) *The man clearly tries to ignore Lothar, who frowns and looks around the room. He smiles a bit when he sees Gerhard Steffen a few benches away.*

Hi, Dad!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

...oh, dear...

Prinz Jobst may have violated Imperial law by his actions, but what damage has it really caused us?

Young Steffin, it is precisely this kind of talk that threw the Roman Republic, much more powerful at the time than us now, into a bloody civil war. Apparently your mentor, whoever he be, has not yet completed your schooling.

Excommunication? HAH! That didn't last bloody long at all!

Next time, we won't be as lucky.

By the way, I bid you welcome to the Diet.

[gibsonsg91921]

Tyrolia's aide:

Herr Salier, I respect your position as Count of Rome, but I believe that such harsh punishment is unsound. After all, the Prinz of the almighty Reich certainly holds enough sway to make a decision by himself.

I believe that instead of this Diet focusing on the punishment of a so-called crime, we need to focus on amending its consequences. Edicts 9.1 and 9.3 will serve to show our force and heal our relationships with trusted allies such as England and Portugal.

I stand on the side of the Steffen family. I believe we should take advantage of the Danish army's depletion and the Franconian and Swabian armies can drive them into the ground!

As for Hans running for Chancellor, I believe from reading his manifesto that he will make a fine leader of our people for the next 20 years.

Tyrolia's aide sits down with the other Austrian nobles.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

After all, the Prinz of the almighty Reich certainly holds enough sway to make a decision by himself.

Not according to the Charter he doesn't. If he wishes to run things differently then perhaps he should run for Chancellor.

[OverKnight]

Otto stands and speaks:

The purpose of this Diet session is to propose and pass legislation for the next Chancellor's term. It is not a tribunal.

While the Prinz's cavalier attitude toward the consequences of the battle against the Danes is alarming to me, the fact remains the two armies stumbled into each other. Somehow, neither army seemed to be aware of the other's approach until the last moment. The Prinz responded to the slaying of his pickets by laying an ambush so that he could stand a chance against a larger, seemingly hostile force.

While the Danes were on Crusade, it would not be the first time a Crusade army took advantage of a holy mission to gain more temporal prizes. The Hungarians seized Constantinople while embarked on the original Crusade to Jerusalem. The Prinz knew this, and made the best decision he could with the available information. Yes, mistakes were made, but we have the benefit of hindsight when we judge the situation. To assign blame before we know all the facts would be foolish.

If, after an investigation, the Prinz is found culpable, then it will be up to this Diet to craft an appropriate punishment. However, there is no proof at the moment. Please remember this.

Thank you my lords.

Otto sits.

[Northnovas]

Karl Zirn stands and speaks ....

Electors, I must concur with Duke von Kassel on our work to be done while we are sitting. There are currently two Edicts 9.2 and 9.4 that address the Prince's actions. Let our ballots count. If we wish to relieve his command then we will vote has such and if we wish this incident to be investigated then we will vote to send the proper personnel to Denmark. There is no need to further discuss and speculate matters at this time.
I would like to give the honourable noble the benefit of doubt but we cannot make decisions till the facts have been uncovered and presented to this floor.
We have little time left to discuss laws and vote.
There may not be a vote for the Chancellor but we can discuss and vote on the mandate we wish to give him for his term of office.

The member looks around at the Electors and returns to his seat...

[OverKnight]

Otto speaks again:

My lords, Maximillian Mandorf made it known to me that he wished his son, Conrad Salier, to inherit his County after he had passed on. I have spoken with Conrad, and with his agreement, I now name him Count of Nuremburg. Of course, this leaves Milan without a noble ruler, but I wished to honor Maximillian's memory.

[OverKnight]

There are 24 hours remaining to this session. If the Electors wish to second or propose further edicts, now would be a good time.

[AussieGiant]

From his seated position Arnold speaks up

Are we really going to have an uncontested election for Chancellor?

[Ignoramus]

A subdued hush falls upon the Diet, as Ulrich Hummel, Prinz of Antioch walks in. Many are suprised at his sudden appearence at the Diet.

Mein electors, I am disgusted at the way you fawn and grovel at the feet of the Kaiser. Are we not the free electors of the Reich? We are lying prostrate at the feet of tyrannt!

Mein men fought and died against the infidel. I resigned mein Duchy, mein station, and took up the cross. And yet I find that I am not allowed to have a say over the very land that I won by the sword.

I hereby stand for election as Chancellor, as I seriously doubt the capacity of the Kaiser's son, who, if I might add, is cast in the same mould of his father, to govern this Reich fittingly.

Those in the Holy Land have given up everything to fight for the cross; they should be allowed to rule that which they have gained.

Charter Ammendment 9.2: "Three independent Crusader lordships shall be carved out of the Outremer:

The Principality of Antioch, consisting of Antioch itself and all Cilicia(Adana)
The County of Tripoli, consisting of Lebanon(Acre).
The County of Edessa, consisting of Mesoptamia(Edessa).

These lordships shall be autonomous parts of the Reich.

As such, they are authorised to:

Maintain a standing army of at least 8 units.
Issue orders for their standing army.
Dictate the order of construction in their settlements.
Appoint their successors.
Decide what fortifications(forts and watchtowers) shall be constructed in their realm.
Elect a King of the Outremer from among their number to oversee the Council of Crusaders.
Debate legislation in the Council of Crusaders, which if passed must be followed the Imperial Diet."

This, I say, gives such men their due, without compromising the Kaiser's authority or influence on the Holy Land.

For, how can one man govern two realms? For such is the case with Henry. Even as I speak, the Russians continue to occupy the fortress at Thorn. Our Reich is very large, and as such, the Holy Land must be allowed to govern themselves.

Remember mein words, electors, remember them, lest we fall foul of our enemies.

Ulrich bows and exits the Diet.

[TinCow]

ARNOLD!

*Lothar grins broadly and slaps the son of the Austrian Duke on the back.*

My friend, why don't you run for Chancellor! I'll vote for you! Let's show this circus that ability is not limited to the... *Lothar gives a sarcastic bow* ...aged. Think of it! You can be Chancellor and I will be your mailed fist, leading our magnificent armies to crush all those who oppose us! HAH!

Let's go get a beer and talk, my friend!

[econ21]

Kaiser Henry: My Lords, it is good to be back amongst you in person, once again! I am particularly grateful to King Otto for overseeing proceeding in the Diet in my absence.

I have posted a final report on my term as Chancellor - I would appreciate any comments or reactions. Copious grovelling and fawning would of course be most welcome, but not obligatory, my dear Prinz of Antioch.

[OverKnight]

Otto rubs the scar on his face in agitation, it is unclear if his unease stems from Ulrich Hummel's declaration and abrupt exit or Lothar Steffen's continued assault on the decorum of the Diet.

Well it seems you have your wish, Count Arnold. The Prinz of Antioch's proposal will be numbered CA 9.5 as the number he gave is already taken.

I assume the tirade against the man who gave him his honorific title in the first place will count as his manifesto.

Sotto voce:

Hmmm, I could use a beer myself.

Edit: Welcome back your Majesty.

[AussieGiant]

Grinning, Arnold stands

Lothar you mad bastard, I'm sure we would have just as much fun governing the Reich as we did growing up together on that accursed island with that mad witch!!

I hope you didn't go near her!!??

Somehow I just don't see myself getting elected their fella. Good thought though...I certainly like your line of thought.

How about we go out after this and get hammered on some of that Venetian wine??!!

[AussieGiant]

With a sudden change in attitude and a look of dread in his eyes Arnold stands again and address the back of the departing Ulrich with a harsh and cutting voice

That's a sure way to find yourself on the wrong end of a lance Ulrich!! I'll take your old bones apart if you are really feeling that spry!!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

Sir Hummel, I believe the Crusaders fought primarily to redeem the sins of the Reich, not to conquer additional lands. Also, I believed that the subsequent conquest of further lands in the Levant were to provide adequate support to the newest Papal holdings in Jerusalem.

[FactionHeir]

*Hans coughs after hearing Hümmel's words and stands to speak*

My fellow lords and electors. Do you not also feel that Hümmel's words are truly ironic? He himself was the one who 'groveled' and 'fawned' at our emperor's feet to marry his daughter, join the house of Swabia and gain position in the empire.

And was the purpose of our most holy crusade truly only to gain lands for ourselves, and not for the glory and redemption of our empire?
No my lords, it is our combined force and will, namely this diet and our charter, which makes this empire the power that it is and giving it the potential to grow and prosper - not the bickering of nobles who wish to fight only for personal gain, without regard for the unity we stand for.
And so I ask: Would we all be here today in this grand empire of one nation, if all of us were to each only stand for our own petty interests instead of that of our house or our empire as a whole?
I am hopeful the answer should be clear to all of us.