Poll - How frequent do disasters occurr in your campaigns

[d'Arthez]

That is great news. Hopefully this will be included in the next build.

[Captian Cornelius]

That is great news. Hopefully this will be included in the next build.

Couldn't see why it wouldn't be, unless he used some crazy complex method to do it.

[Thaatu]

Thanks to the Border Reiver, looks like we will be having random earthquakes in appropriate hotspots in a future build. Probably some more small volcanoes too that randomly have flareups. He posted his work a little while ago on the disasters file and random floods in certain places are possible too.

Oh crap. I fail to see how this is good news for me...

[BerkeleyBoi]

Plauge is a different manner. We might try to make it so that if plauge shows up in a certain province it will spread realistically. We might also see if we would want to track outbreaks that start in China, which would be mostly unaffected by events in game, and then spread to Europe. It turns out most terrible diseases in recent times and history originate from China so I think this could work nicely.

I'm going to be off topic, sorry about that, but I'm curious as to why the diseases tend to come from China? SARS and Avian Flu are two recent cases, but others such as AIDS and Ebola comes from Africa. I don't know about ancient diseases, but is there a reason why it comes from China? (I think it has something to do with the huge masses of people living in condensed area, but India also had a dense population in ancient times, right?)

Once again, sorry for being off topic... so to make up for it, I have never seen any disasters other than plagues. Maybe one storm or earthquake...

[Underhand]

Tough in one way it's stupid if you're already knowing a vulcano is going to errupt so that you can move your army temporarly

I have the perfect answer for that, actually. Just be as absent-minded as me, and you'll never remember to move your army of elites or general with the Reformator trait out of the way. I actually look forward to the anguish, in a strange sort of way.

That's a pretty fair argument, Underhand. Not that I completely agree with it, but a good point made. We'll just have to make them a bit more randomized. And actually, since you mentioned deforestation, that could actually increase the chance of floods without plants to absorb water. I wonder if we can check for settlement size against chances of flooding.

Ta. The settlement size idea is an interesting one, although if it's too obvious that it's happening then it'll seem like being punished for something you can't really avoid - settlement growth. I think it'd be perfect if it just gives a nagging feeling that something's up.

Although volcanic eruptions seem quite determined and uneffected by what is happening on the surface, I doubt it could be foreseen exactly. It would be perfect to code it like "... volcanic eruption in Campania somehow between 82BC and 76BC..."

Probably the best thing to do, if it's possible. That way, only the real obsessives would remember to avoid it. Or everyone would treat the area like a nuclear fallout zone until the eruption is safely over, I suppose.

[Watchman]

I am no expert on floods, but how likely is it that a province on the Iranian plateau (I think it was Gabiene in my game) gets hit by a flood?

Hehe - my only flood so far occured in the middle of Mauretania...

Wouldn't those be written up to flash floods due to a rare bout of torrential rain combined with highland snow and ice melting in the spring ? I understand those can be a problem even in normally rather arid regions - indeed particularly there, as they're so uncommon and hence surprising.

[Sakkura]

I'm going to be off topic, sorry about that, but I'm curious as to why the diseases tend to come from China? SARS and Avian Flu are two recent cases, but others such as AIDS and Ebola comes from Africa. I don't know about ancient diseases, but is there a reason why it comes from China? (I think it has something to do with the huge masses of people living in condensed area, but India also had a dense population in ancient times, right?)

Once again, sorry for being off topic... so to make up for it, I have never seen any disasters other than plagues. Maybe one storm or earthquake...

Well zoonoses can arise anywhere human contact with animals is widespread, which applies to China but also to India. Other pandemics can arise anywhere human population is concentrated, especially where sanitation and medical service is poor - again, India and China are prime candidates.

The black death seems to have started either in the steppes of central Asia or in northern India. It was then spread east into China and west into Europe by Mongols and traders.

Anyway, China appears to be just one of a number of common origins of disease outbreaks.

[Pharnakes]

Wouldn't those be written up to flash floods due to a rare bout of torrential rain combined with highland snow and ice melting in the spring ? I understand those can be a problem even in normally rather arid regions - indeed particularly there, as they're so uncommon and hence surprising.

Certinately for Gabiene, but I'm a little more doubtful about Mauretania.

[Elminster12]

There's also the factor that the west traded extensively with China and India from this point on, so pathogens could easily pass between two disparate populations.

As for disasters, I've gotten plagues twice. Once as the Sauromatae(I was grateful, damned Uspe was getting too bad for my nomadic ability to control it...) and once as Pontos(in Amaseia too, no less! that royally sucked, but I dutifully spread it as far throughout the Seleukid empire as I could )

[Teleklos Archelaou]

There are some 'scripted' historical plagues, but it looks from the code like 'random' plagues do not exist in EB. The ones that are scripted (doesn't involve the script files though) are found in Pella, Asia Minor, two throughout Italy, and one in Alexandria.

Is there definite proof that plagues are occurring *in EB* outside those places, by having overpopulation and poor health?

[d'Arthez]

I do remember that in my Baktria campaign a plague hit in 267BC. I neglected to build health improvements, as I was trying to build up my factional MIC4 there. Population must have been around 9000. Was not spy induced.

The overpopulation + poor health seems like a possible cause of the outbreak there.

[-Praetor-]

yeh, the triggers are, I guess, not having enough health buildings and overpopulation.

So yes, they do tend to happen if the right conditions are met.

Cheers!

[Teleklos Archelaou]

So there must be a third way plagues can happen that is totall uncontrollable by modders:

1. "script" plague by descr_events.txt historical events file - need to specify place where it occurs
2. cause "random" plagues by descr_disasters.txt file - places where they occur need to be specified by region or coordinates or terrain
For EB, this group is currently "off" -

event plague
frequency 2
winter false
summer false
min_scale 2
max_scale 5

3. a third uncontrollable by modders way that is hardcoded to cause plagues in towns with overpopulation and little to no health improvements

[Watchman]

Certinately for Gabiene, but I'm a little more doubtful about Mauretania.

Desert regions have their dry riverbeds that see water about once in a decade, but then in a torrent, don't they ? And on the map Mauretania seems to have not only reasonably sized waterways, but also lots of mountains and other high ground for rainwater and such to pour down from no ?

I'll grant you I have slight difficulties imagining such flash river-floods managing more than drowning a few shepherds though, but the game engine is the game engine...

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Wouldn't those be written up to flash floods due to a rare bout of torrential rain combined with highland snow and ice melting in the spring ? I understand those can be a problem even in normally rather arid regions - indeed particularly there, as they're so uncommon and hence surprising.

That's a good point, Watchman:

I remember my Geography teacher saying "in the Sahara, more people drowned than died of thirst - arab proverb".

She also said: "Don't say Sahara, it's Sahara. Sahara means little bag."

She was really well travelled.

[Thaatu]

Wouldn't those be written up to flash floods due to a rare bout of torrential rain combined with highland snow and ice melting in the spring ? I understand those can be a problem even in normally rather arid regions - indeed particularly there, as they're so uncommon and hence surprising.

Yeah, I remember a Donald Duck story where Scrooge had to run away from a flood in the middle of an Australian desert. It's by Don Rosa, so I can't critisise the realism of it.


...


I'll get my coat.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Back to poll: I've seen all of it, plagues I can barely avoid them and the AI can't. Happens mostly when I'm ready and want to take the town, then they make a mistake with their biochemical weapons. Or some such thing. >> Cyrene.

Earthquakes, Sahara province, the area around Karmana. Though quite a while ago. Does nice things to the campaign map.

Floods: happens when I conquer a settlement, apparently the Gods don't like me >> Taras, Gawjam~Habukoz. Happens with the AI governing a settlement too >> Arretium.

Storms: happens when my occasional naval transport is underway. Especially at the shores of enemy AI settlements, I'd like to raid.

Volcanoes: once seen the Etna flooding poor Sicily with lava.

Anything else? Well, plenty of it mostly piracy & AI & pathfinding & traits related, but I guess that's entirely off topic too.

[Underhand]

I finally got a plague the other day in Garama. Frankly, it serves those bastards right. They, along with Siga, have been a thorn in my side ever since I took them from the Carthaginians, getting angry at the drop of a helmet and forcing me to relocate my capital to an inconvenient place. Seeing that a few hundred more have died at the start of each turn pleases me a little.

[d'Arthez]

I finally got a plague the other day in Garama. Frankly, it serves those bastards right. They, along with Siga, have been a thorn in my side ever since I took them from the Carthaginians, getting angry at the drop of a helmet and forcing me to relocate my capital to an inconvenient place. Seeing that a few hundred more have died at the start of each turn pleases me a little.

Playing as the Romans? Now you could send a spy to Garama and hope he will be able to travel to Siga, WITH the plague. Perfect population control. .

[cezarip]

Playing as the Romans I have seen the eruptions of both Vesuvius and Etna. Both times when my legions were near almost halving the units.

[Underhand]

Playing as the Romans? Now you could send a spy to Garama and hope he will be able to travel to Siga, WITH the plague. Perfect population control. .

Perhaps, although the citizens of Siga have lately been suspiciously well-behaved. Maybe they guessed what might happen if they weren't.

Speaking of spies and plagues, I'm having an ethical dilemma. Garama is right next to Egypt, which is right next to the giant Seleucid Empire. I'm tempted to make use of these backwater desert-dwellers' lack of personal hygiene.

[d'Arthez]

Biological warfare? Just convince yourself to do it. The weaker both these empires are, the less resistance they can put up to the rightful rule of Rome. And when the inevitable happens (the occupation of Alexandreia, Antioch et cetera), you will not be forced to put the population to the sword - partly due to decimated population, partly due to the bigger garrison bonus, when you capture the cities.

Really, it is a win-win situation.

[Underhand]

Actually, it's more over whether I want to exploit the engine and take advantage of the AI than whether biological warfare is wrong (it's a game, and as such to me 'right' and 'wrong' are irrelevant). I have no qualms about exterminating cities if to not do so would cause me headaches. I'd also like to experience slaughtering swarms of Seleucids with my swarms of Romans - maybe I'll finally get a triumph

[Elminster12]

Actually, it's more over whether I want to exploit the engine and take advantage of the AI than whether biological warfare is wrong (it's a game, and as such to me 'right' and 'wrong' are irrelevant). I have no qualms about exterminating cities if to not do so would cause me headaches. I'd also like to experience slaughtering swarms of Seleucids with my swarms of Romans - maybe I'll finally get a triumph

I always send the spies against my enemies. Considering I play Pontos alot, that's usually the Seleukids(whether or not we're officially enemies is beside the point, I'm just grinning and acting nice in hopes the Ptolies wallop them so I can backstab them ) and, naturally, a spy would be out spying, wouldn't he? If he has the plague, maybe he doesn't know it until he falls ill...on his mission in Antioch

[Underhand]

I always send the spies against my enemies. Considering I play Pontos alot, that's usually the Seleukids(whether or not we're officially enemies is beside the point, I'm just grinning and acting nice in hopes the Ptolies wallop them so I can backstab them ) and, naturally, a spy would be out spying, wouldn't he? If he has the plague, maybe he doesn't know it until he falls ill...on his mission in Antioch

Ah, well I can certainly understand pulling such tricks then. Pontus needs every edge it can get early on.