missile units

[Lovejoy]

I think we should find a way to differate(zomg sp???) archers from slingers. As it is now, slingers is just the same thing as archers exept stronger and better.

I recommend having archers fire longer and stonger(?), while slinger fire shorter and weaker, but on the other hand, much faster. They should be cheaper too.

But what do I know, maybe smoeone else got a better idea`?

[QwertyMIDX]

I recommend having archers fire longer and stonger(?), while slinger fire shorter and weaker, but on the other hand, much faster.

It wouldn't be accurate if we did that. Slingers generally out ranged archers and were more effective against armor. Archers are more effective against unarmored units though, as they are in EB, at least shot for shot.

[BerkeleyBoi]

I have also seen celtic factions spam slingers when i was invading the mainland as the casse. full stack armies of the avereni and aediu would have at least half be slingers. made it very hard for my infantry-chariot based army to attack until i lured them into an uphill battle.

i know this has been talked to death, but i still think slingers mess up the balance of units a little bit. with that said, it is usually up to the player to use self control to not use too many since the ai is usually ineffective with their slinger usage.

[LusitanianWolf]

In my last invasion to Epiros thy stacked lots and lots of slingers but were stupid enought to not build any cavalry or fast spearmans to protect them from my Equites =)

[pezhetairoi]

Apparently Epeiros' slingers and archers are only an early-stage thing. Now that I've given them some time to rebuild and divide Greece with KH, they are fielding very well-balanced and quite heavy armies. Missile units are only minor players now. Molosson and Chaonion Agema are now available in their place.

[geala]

In my campaigns till now everything was fine with the composition of missile troops in the enemy armies. However I have played for longer times only (but repeatedly) Epiros, Makedonia and the Ptolemaioi, my favorite factions.

I think some changes with the missile troops could indeed be considered. I like the sling and am slinging myself a bit but I have problems with the outstanding performance of the sling in EB, especially the AP feature.

We have astonishing reports about sling performance from the ancient times and from the American Conquista. They may be true or not but if you look a bit closer to the ballistic formular and compare it with that from arrows and javelins one gets an unpleasant feeling. And when you look at modern examinations what energy is necessary for blunt projectiles to injure armoured personal the uncomfortableness even grows.

I think a solution could be to lower the reach of slingers drastically, if you don't want to remove the AP attribute. Although a sling can outreach a bow the energy of the stone or glandes at that distances would be very low, too low to be more than an annoyance for an armoured man.

[BigTex]

In my campaigns till now everything was fine with the composition of missile troops in the enemy armies. However I have played for longer times only (but repeatedly) Epiros, Makedonia and the Ptolemaioi, my favorite factions.

I think some changes with the missile troops could indeed be considered. I like the sling and am slinging myself a bit but I have problems with the outstanding performance of the sling in EB, especially the AP feature.

We have astonishing reports about sling performance from the ancient times and from the American Conquista. They may be true or not but if you look a bit closer to the ballistic formular and compare it with that from arrows and javelins one gets an unpleasant feeling. And when you look at modern examinations what energy is necessary for blunt projectiles to injure armoured personal the uncomfortableness even grows.

I think a solution could be to lower the reach of slingers drastically, if you don't want to remove the AP attribute. Although a sling can outreach a bow the energy of the stone or glandes at that distances would be very low, too low to be more than an annoyance for an armoured man.

A nearly 1lb lead bullet being thrown at over 100/mh will cause severe damage when it hits. Lamelar and other cloth types of armors are not going to soften the hit enough, they wont let it through but it wont cushion you. Same with chain mail. If that bullet hits your head you are most likely going down. The AP is definately deserved.

[Thaatu]

Were slingers actually used as units, or were they just individual skirmishers? I've always thought that slingers were harassers in the battlefield, not part of a strict unit like archers.

The thing with sling bullets vs. arrows is that even a glancing hit from an arrow most likely puts a man down, because it causes blood loss. Of course a lead bullet to the temple could kill you, but wouldn't an arrow do the same with more certainty? What I'd suggest is at least reduce the amount of bullets most slingers have. 40 bullets compared to 15 arrows, what most archers got, is a little too wide of a gap.

[Watchman]

Lamellar had nothing to do with "cloth armour" you know. The stuff's virtually rigid.

Anyway, if I've understood correctly a hit from a slingstone or -bullet that still retains decent amounts of energy is by and large comparable to getting hit by a (small-headed) mace or hammer, and generally an unpleasant experience even in armour. Good armour should in most cases absorb enough of the impact to keep the injury inflicted to tolerable levels (eg. cracked ribs and massive bruise instead of a busted lung and massive internal bleeding), but the old brainbox always had trouble with this sort of thing even with far more substantial helmets than were used in the context. The head was always the primary target for maces after all, which were also just about the melee weapon Numbah Uno for dealing with heavily armed opponents.
The Conquistadors apparently found slingstones tended to cause concussion, blindness and/or death through even highly developed steel helmets with alarming regularity, and IIRC there's something similar in that one scene of Cervantes' Don Quihote when the intrepid hero manages to land himself in trouble with a bunch of shepherds (his less than awesome equipement nonwithstanding). I've also read Medieval armies found slingers particularly useful in sieges, since the most that could usually be seen of the defenders over the crenellations was the head...