Imperial Diet IV

[Ituralde]

Your suggestions sound reasonable Count Hans. However I can not understand your explanations concerning evidence you intend to bring forth against me. If you have evidence that tarnishes my claim, it would only be right to present it here in the Diet for everyone to see. My own evidence will be presented shortly here. I do not condone this backroom dealings you are suggesting. How am I to refute charges brought against me, if I don't even know of them, since I would not be part of that "Council of Five". I present my evidence openly and for every Elector to see, you should do the same, unless you are the one that hides something.

As to me remaining on the throne? So far I've only heard claims against my ascension, but so far no proof has been brought forward that another man would be eligible for that position. And surely that person should have to undergo the same procedure that I am willing to undergo to erase any doubts as to the righteousness of the next Emperor!

And the vote should be unanimous. We can not allow dissent to rip apart the Empire. Should this "Council of Five" truly appoint the next Emperor against every written law and customs, there should be no doubt that every member of it supports this decision.

Once Dieter will have spoke in front of this Diet there is little I can add to further my cause and I believe it is now up to the Electors whether they choose to continue this state of confusion or choose to clear it up.

[Stuperman]

Gentlemen, I'd like to present the last Bavarian household Edict.

Edcit 11.11 (I think, this can be changed easly)
In response to the Increased hostility shown in general by the Sicilians the Garrison of Rome shall be increased to include: A full 'free' garrison of local militia, plus 2 regiments of profesional foot, 2 regiments of professional missle and 2 regiments of Cavelry(professional or militia), Gerhard Steffen is to be put in Charge of thr Defence of Rome.
Seconded:Lothar Steffen, Mathais Steffen.

Edit: I must echo my son's sentiment towards CA 11.5, the spirit is correct, but the language too restrictive.

[Stig]

I second Hans' CA, which he accidently seemed to have named 11.5 and should be 11.6 if I'm correct

[AussieGiant]

Christ on the Cross!!

It's like a lawyer’s wet dream in here. There are more proposals being tabled than at a bloody church on Sunday's.

I think we need to re-address the number of edicts like we did some decades ago, if only to have everyone focus a little more on the really important things.

It's just a thought and I'm certainly one to blame...hell I've managed to put my marriage into an edict.

And someone correct me if I'm wrong.

A CA needs a 2/3 majority while an edict just a simple tally of influence votes. That makes CA 11.1 much harder to pass than edict 11.10.

Would edict 11.10 be a poor mans version of the CA on the same theme? Keep that in mind gentlemen.

As for a unanimous vote, then I am in agreement. The whole point of this succession issue is to remove any ability to question or cloud the issue. We simply CAN NOT afford this type of issue to be anything but absolute.

Damn a need a drink!!

Taking a seat Arnold continues to read further Diet papers with some consternation.

[Cecil XIX]

Count Steffen makes an amiable point. I have modified CA 11.5 to read as follows.

2.7 All cities must have their maximum amount of free upkeep militia within their walls all times, except when the militia is used to fight armies observed to be within the boundaries of their province.

[AussieGiant]

Slapping Sigismund on the back heartily Arnold grins in pride

There you go brother!!

I'll second CA 11.5 now.

whispering but not really low enough to stop everyone hearing Arnold continues

Hells teeth Sigismund you need to get better lawyers. You nearly made diamonds pop out of me arse with the previous wording!!

Looking back to the House benches the young Duke seems a little unsteady

Lothar!!??

Where are you. We need to go out tonight, it's all bloody back stabbing, conniving tripe here at the moment!!

Is that professional whore monger Elberhard back here for the Diet session, jeesuss did he find some excellent places last time he was in town!!

[Stuperman]

I will second the revised CA 11.5. Why not take advantage of such a thing?

[Warluster]

Dieter enters the Diet, looking nervous but certian.

Mein lords.

I am sure many of you doubt Siegfreds right to the throne. But I can bring forth many Knights who witnessed Kaiser Jobst's final moments.

Jobst was looking for a heir ever since he became Kaiser, of course, once he and his wife had a son, all was solved. He knew he wouldn't last long enough on this earth to make Athlalwolf his heir, so he choose the most inexperinced noble in the Empire, and not a Swabian.

Thus, he invitied Siegfred, and they travelled for some years. I was told, by the Kaiser personally, that Siegfred was to be his heir. It is not in words, no, but I can summon some men of Kaiser Jobst's bodyguard.

Dieter bows, and sits on one of the back benches.

[Privateerkev]

Jan walks in

I have come to announce this in person as our law dictates. This is an attempt to put some limits and humanity into our actions. The Kaiser himself has urged that I propose this and I do not wish to dissapoint.

Charter Amendment 11.8:
(a) All prisoners are to be released after every battle.
(b) No settlement can be exterminated without prior authorization from a Diet vote.


Jan leaves

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

Seconded. If we are good Christians then this should come easy.

[OverKnight]

Matthias looks over the updated legislation and speaks.

All this talk of councils and such has made me aware of a possible weakness in our Charter which should be addressed.

Charter Amendment 11.7: The section of the Charter which currently reads "5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes" will be changed to the following: 5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes. However, if a rules dispute directly involves the Emperor, the four Dukes of the Realm (or their appointed deputies) will gather to assist the Emperor in clarifying the dispute. A simple vote among the Dukes would decide the dispute, with the Emperor having the tie-breaking vote.

This is not an indictment of Kaiser Siegfried, but more of acknowledgement of past Kaisers who have abused the above clause in the Charter. It is most likely the Emperor's judgement of a dispute directly involving him would still be in effect, this is merely for cases where an abuse of power is so blatant that three out of the four Dukes disagree.

Electors might wonder why the King of Outremer is not involved. The King is an Imperial appointee and may not have the independence of judgement that the Dukes, secure in their positions, would have.

[Stig]

Do you know what happens if we can't even ransom prisoners? We lose income.
Do you know what happens if someone as Duke Arnold or myself can't kill our enemies? We will lose more men ourselves. Does anyone want that to happen?

The life of a German is worth 20 Poles, I'd rather have Poles and Russians killed than seeing the precious German blood being spilled.


(OOC: Hell I feel like a man with a little moustache)

[econ21]

Elberhard: I second Charter Amendment 11.8.

[Stuperman]

I totally agree, by forcing the release of prisoners you only asking for MORE bloodshed. Do you really think that the thousands of polish Soldiers put to thier deaths Near Thorn wouldn't return?

[Stuperman]

Elberhard: I second Charter Amendment 11.8.

Well, it's good to see that you put the lives of our enemies over the lives of Good German Elberhard, In a dry tone Grehard adds: Such a patriot!

[TinCow]

The Hells themselves must be freezing over, for I find myself agreeing with Steward Ansehelm for the second time in a row! Charter Amendment 11.8 is an afront to all citizens of the Reich. We might as well pass an Edict requring that our women be raped by the Rus as well!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

Regarding Charter Amendment 11.6. Although this amendment most obviously affects me and would seem to put me in a good position, I have been hesitant to second it.

On one hand, it does allow for more fluency and consistency in the Outremer. This is obviously good; I would not want leaders changing in moments of crisis just because the Kaiser disagreed with the King. On the other hand, I fear that lifetime appointments may corrupt the person in power and cause them to be a less effective King, one who is more concerned with consolidating power than protecting Outremer. However, I would hope that the King, who will most likely have come to the East on his own accord, would be an extremely chivalrous sort and be above that sort of thing.

I am still unsure of how to vote, but in the meantime I second the CA.

[AussieGiant]

I also second CA 11.6.

I agree with the reasoning of King Sailer, but I'm prepared to give it a try as it does attempt to create stability in the premier title holder of the region.

I also second CA 11.7.

Matthais you certainly have some skill at political wording.

As for the concept of enforcing the Reich wide release of prisioners after battle...and the pre approval of exterminating an enemy populace.

Looking at Jan seat in the Diet, then Elberhard, Arnold exhales his breath through his teeth in a hiss.

...just how is this meant to be enforced?

I'd like all men here to think of the consequences to this realm in general if our enemies and other nations know something like this before negotiating with us or bringing battle to us.

What is stopping enemy generals from realising defeat is imminent and then simply surrendering en mass?? With this in place they would be able to walk away unharmed.

Likewise, when the Kaiser or Chancellor are negotiating with hostile nations...it's improbable to believe that something like this would not be taken into account when organising cease fires and truces!!??

What of our own allies current and future? Will nations deal with us as allies to protect mutual borders if they know full well that any large battle will lead to enemy troops being released to potentially fight them months later!!??

Victory becomes...a loss gentlemen, that is what will happen!! On a strategic level this is totally debilitating.

Please note I'm not asking for the exact opposite as some people here imagine. I'm only asking that each General of this Reich be given the choice to assess the situation at hand and make his own decision...and to live with the consequences of their choice...no matter how judgemental others seem to be towards the behaviour of others, enforcing this type of behaviour will only make us weaker at a strategic level.

I must point out that it seems I have been someone this concept has been aimed against...and for those of you more chivalrous I can understand...but I am not without religion and I'm not without mercy. My reputation has grown rapidly of late but I wish to state that it is not aimed at men of my homeland, but at my enemies that threaten this Empire.

Looking again pointedly at Jan seat and that of Elberhard, Arnold continues

To date the Crusades have brought more bloodshed than any other conflict I have read over my life. Our greatest armies have been assembled in Outremer, more soldiers have died defending that piece of the world than nearly every other part of the Reich combined.

Yet is seems as if this small detail has been overlooked and wishes of men in a different part of the world want to impose their beliefs on other men is other parts of the Reich.

I do not agree. Each man is currently free at this time to pursue his own course of action with our enemies and deal with God accordingly. This charter removes that freedom.

Taking a seat Arnold whispers to Grom and Bane. Handing them notes before they depart into the Austrian chambers.

[Privateerkev]

an aide brings in a letter

I will second CA 11.7

[OverKnight]

An ink stained scribe bursts into the Diet, clutching a sheaf of papers to his chest. He speaks:

My Lords, it was a horrific struggle, I saw many of my comrades fall from wrist strain and cataracts, a few even went mad, but we have prevailed! The legislation list is updated!

The scribe collapses muttering, "No more! No more!", to himself over and over again.

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: This Diet session is now closed. Normal debate can of course continue.

I would like to issue a warm thank you to Matthias's scribes for their heroic endeavours.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

After much deliberation, I am for CA 11.4. I want those who come to Outremer to do so for reasons aside from power.

[AussieGiant]

Standing and bowing slightly to the King

My Lord,

I'm inspired by your thoughts.

I have also cast any petty concepts aside to back your Crusade to Jeruselum and have the Emperor's selection of you set into law.

[FactionHeir]

I would like to second Peter von Kastiliens edict.

OOC: Sorry, was unable to check yesterday but really wanted to get that seconding in. Will post more in 10 hrs

[Privateerkev]

An aide walks up to Count Hans

Um..Count Hans...forgive me for the interruption but, we are voting right now and voting will be over in 8 hours. So, if your not going to be back before 10 hours, then you might want to get your voting in now. Unless you want to "vote by mail" and hand your vote to the Diet Speaker.

Thank you

[AussieGiant]

Looking at the current voting sheets Arnold face becomes grim

As for this Holy amendment 11.8, just how does some propose to over rule my decision in the field end enforce this? Unless the Kaiser is baby sitting me, I will be the senior member of any army I lead.

It's short sighted gentlemen and now you're going to turn the Reich in to a laughing stock.

It seems you are going to Russia surrounded by enemies and no way to the remove them Anselhelm. I don't envy you.

[TinCow]

I would not concern yourself much with Amendment 11.8, Arnold. It does not appear that it will pass, and even if it does, well... you can't execute prisoners if you do not take any in the first place, can you? In the midst of battle, a tactical retreat can be disguised as a true rout, so best to make sure the enemy is truly beaten by riding them down then and there!

As for the peasants in hostile cities... who the hell knows how many people live in those places? There are certainly estimates, but we all know they are never accurate. If several thousand seem to be missing after a siege, well, they probably died of starvation, or fled for their lives!

[AussieGiant]

With a look of sincerity Arnold is very earnest in his words

Yes, yes...it's all very hazy in some parts of the world you're entirely correct Lothar.

I've got now idea how many people live in Budapest anyway. The rebels burnt all our records after they took the place.

In my opinion the fact I didn't kill a single one of them myself is a credit. Of course I can't vouch for my Captains. They are a passionate lot and many of them came from Budapest to begin with.

Half of them wanted to burn the place down...I had to have Bane take a few out the back and remind them of the concept of "taking orders".

God knows...and that's my point...only God really knows. And unless someone here is speaking on his behalf, then he and I have a deal going.

[OverKnight]

Matthias is handed the latest voting tallies by an exhausted scribe. His eyes widen a bit and he glances over quickly at Lothar and his Father. He shakes his head a bit ruefully but is smiling. He stands to speak.

Given the current results, I will begin giving some preliminary orders, mostly dealing with the movement of Imperial agents. I urge any Electors that have not posted build queues or House Army orders to do so. Once the Chancellor's term has officially begun, in the absence of orders, I will use my best judgement based on past comments and common sense. If any queues or orders come in late, I will do my best to integrate them into ongoing events.

Of immediate concern to me is the the rise of heresy and Orthodox Christianity around Thorn (50% Catholic). Also, Metz and Dijon have high levels of heresy (~80% Catholic). Jerusalem, while not in posession of the Reich, has seen its Christian population plummet (30%) since the city was taken by the Saracens. I will have our priests in Outremer move to the area to prepare the way for the Crusade and ensure the occupation of the city and the hand over back to the Church goes smoothly. The confirmed presence of plague in the city may delay all this however.

Besides Count Ansehelm, do any other Franconians wish to participate in the Teutonic Crusade? (OOC: Stig, I might include an unclaimed avatar in the stack as a precaution)

I heard that Wolfgang Hummel has plans to travel to Byzantine Iconium. Is this true? Or will he take ship back to Swabia? Is he even welcome in the Empire and does he wish to return?

With the dearth of Swabians in their own Duchy, I plan to have Count Hans return there by the swiftest way possible. I will continue with this plan unless I hear differently.

I believe Duke Arnold wishes to move to Ragusa, or so I last heard. Is this true? I understand that Sigismund von Mahren will take command of the AHA. I assume he is the one who will move on Bran if that edict passes.
Edit: On further review of the AHA orders, I now understand what the Duke and Count Sigismund wish, I withdraw these questions.

There is much to review before the term begins, I will start now.

Matthias resumes his seat and waves over a gaggle of scribes and begins reading reports and dispatching orders at a quick pace.

[AussieGiant]

Chancellor Matthias,

I have sent you a brief note in clarification of my intentions.

Congratulations on your...win.