King of the Romans OOC thread IX

[Stuperman]

My god the political climate moves fast here, I think that I'll go into the Diet and Stir the pot a bit Muhahahah!

I actually like Arnold, He's done what's right for his House considering hungries almost non-stop assualts he can't really justify letting all those soldiers go when they will be back on his door step next turn.

[Stig]

Aye, same reason why Ansehelm supports Arnold. He's doing the same with Poles and Russians.

[Stuperman]

I am conceptualizing a "battle for the soul of the Reich" where legislation banning executions, sacking, and exterminations will be the centerpiece. Such legislation will hopefully spur IC debates on morals, values, the meaning of civilization, and the meaning of being Christian. Either way it should be fun!

That goes directly against what I have planned for the Sicilians...

[Privateerkev]

My god the political climate moves fast here, I think that I'll go into the Diet and Stir the pot a bit Muhahahah!

I actually like Arnold, He's done what's right for his House considering hungries almost non-stop assualts he can't really justify letting all those soldiers go when they will be back on his door step next turn.

Oh, there's great "realpolitik" reasons for doing what Arnold has done. But, those of us playing characters with high chivalry and high piety can stand with our mouths open and gasp in horror. The man did bring heads into the Diet as well as place 4000 heads on pikes lining a road. I was surprised that more people weren't vocal until I learned that there are things going on "behind-the-scenes".

*edit*

Stuperman's and Stig's posts lend weight to my belief that such legislation would ultimately fail right now. But, it would be fun to at least have the debate. Why should people be able to murder with no one saying anything? If you want to have your character murder, thats fine with me but you have to accept that other characters may/will be horrified at your actions.

[econ21]

Ignoramus: on rebellion, there are various ways we could accommodate it within the PBM.

The easiest is to collude OOC with the player controlling the Chancellor so that he moves the rebellious forces. We've done this before in this PBM - once when I think OK allowed Hummel senior to move against orders, but most notably under Chancellor Maximillan's watch when Max was a Papist but Tincow set-up attacks on the Papacy. For this, you essentially have to persuade the Chancellor player that what you propose is plausible and makes sense in character. The problem with Hummel the junior at the moment is that, as has been said, his rebellion does not seem to have wider support.

Another way is what we did in WotS when we informally agreed to start a Civil War and basically made up game mechanics as we went along.

Finally, as OK has said, you could propose OOC Charter amendments to formalise game mechanics for a rebellion.

All these are possibilities, but I am not sure they are for now. I think you would need something like a House or its equivalent to rebel for it to cause major issues. Anything lesser would probably just be easily suppressed or otherwise resolved.

I for example feel that the Emperors powers have been quite crippled, not that he was overly powerful to begin with, but I'll have to live with it and adjust my roleplay accordingly.

I am open to ideas for how to beef up the role of the Emperor. The de facto creation of a Kaiser's Army might help (I want a Prinz's one ). Some of his existing powers are subtle, but potentially powerful - ability to popose unlimited edicts/CAs per session, allocating provinces to Houses, calling an Emergency Diet, adjudicating rules disputes etc. With influence = authority, he can also get some legislative clout. A lot of it comes from role-playing though, which is why I offered to evict rebels from the Diet to maintain that atmosphere of deference and respect.

[TinCow]

Don't underestimate the power of being banned from the Diet either. Lothar only let himself get expelled because he knew Henry was old and would die soon, thus allowing him to return without apologizing. However, he lived a bit longer than I was expecting and I have to say that not being able to speak got intensely aggravating. The risk of another Diet expulsion with no chance of another Kaiser death to let him back in was a major reason that Lothar did not push the issue of Siegfried's coronation any more than he did.

I think the Kaiser's power is only limited if you choose not to exploit it. You have the ability to expel anyone from the Diet that you wish. If you don't like someone, make up a reason and kick him out. It doesn't have to be valid and it will have a huge effect. You can also ignore Jobst's will and marry Lyse off to whomever you want, another major power. You can refuse to give any territories to houses that oppose you, another massive power. Finally, you have the power to adjudicate "rules disputes." If you interpret this liberally and find some weak legislation, you can pretty much re-write the law to say whatever you want. If anyone complains about your ability to do so, just say that whether you have the ability to rule on the law is itself a "rules dispute" which thus falls under your authority.

Of course, all of these actions will likely make people dislike you, but how can you expect to wield supreme power without making enemies? Either play a passive Emperor and have everyone like you, or start flexing your muscles and get prepared for some opposition. The choice is yours to make.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Although don't flex those Imperial muscles too much.

[Stig]

But being emperor you can easely get rid of opposition. And in this game you can't really.
Would Arnold be emperor he would simply have Wolfgang trailed and killed , the game does not allow this (I think).

But as TinCow said, you do have powers, ignoring people for example. Sure the chancellor makes the moves, but you are emperor, he has to keep you a friend, and will have to follow your orders.

Next to that if people oppose you, ban them from the Diet. Would I make an Edict saying that Siegfried will not be the real Kaiser, ban me. TinCow seconds it? Ban him. Easy.

Tho we should allow those people to rebel in a way of not having to follow orders, they can make their own moves (aslong as they send them in in time)

[econ21]

Part II of my battle report is now up.

[Stig]

I still have to do 2, big gah
This goes too fast for me

[TinCow]

If they're just minor battles, you really dont need to do anything more than post the end results. I have made my last few battle reports extensive because they were actually just a way I could tell the next part of my 'Lothar Story'. Plus, you've been fighting a lot of battles lately. If you don't think the battles are important historical events and have no significance for your character, save yourself some pain and skip the details.

[Cecil XIX]

This discussion about rebellion makes we wonder how different things would be if we could frame generals for treason as in MTW. Alas, what could have been.

[Stig]

Well I still need to do atleast one, also to continue Ansehelms story

[econ21]

Third and final part of my battle report up. One of the most intense TW battles I've fought.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ah good, now Conrad can finally yell at Elberhard.

[Privateerkev]

Ah good, now Conrad can finally yell at Elberhard.

For what? Can we see? I've been craving some good Outremer drama!

[flyd]

That's it. 1260 has been entered, and the save is up:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1260.zip

The transition was interesting enough...

[Privateerkev]

*looks at the save*

Oh man, this is gonna be a fun one! Ok, how does this work? Is the game frozen until the end of the Diet session?

[Northnovas]

*looks at the save*

Oh man, this is gonna be a fun one! Ok, how does this work? Is the game frozen until the end of the Diet session?

Yes, the Diet will be declared open by the Kaiser and time will be given for edicts and charter amendments some discussion. Election for the edicts proposed and for Chancellor if required. Then when all said and done move on to the save and continue with new army orders and building queues.

[Privateerkev]

Thanks, I joined right after the last one so this is my first "transition" and there is much IC I want to do.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Even if we do take back Jerusalem, Durazzo will still be the capital, which is not the best of situations for us. Perhaps we could persuade the Byzantines to attack it for us?

[OverKnight]

I would say trade Jerusalem, once we have it back, for Durazzo, but they won't trade their capital will they?

[GeneralHankerchief]

No.

[Privateerkev]

What funny is this probably wouldn't have happened except for the fact that the Papacy has their army sitting in a little boat in a little lake next to Jerusalem. The Egyptians have a boat full of men there two. Such a mighty little boat navy... Reminds me of the War of 1812...

[econ21]

If Ituralde has not already done so, I will open the Diet tomorrow morning (UK time). I'd rather not have the deadlines expire at such an ungodly hour as the likelihood of my making mistakes when drawing up the polls etc would be high.

[GeneralHankerchief]

All right, but Outremer reserves the right to call their Crusade Edict 11.1.

[StoneCold]

Err... what is the rationale for asking Durazzo back again? Tot we gave it to the Pope to secure a border?

[Privateerkev]

I think the thought is to make Jerusalem the Papacy capital again so the new popes keep springing up there. Also it makes sense in game.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Problem is, we can't negotiate our way to the Papacy giving up Durazzo since it's already their capital and they never let you do anything with an AI capital. The only way that Durazzo can be removed is by force. We obviously don't want to do it (at least, most of us, I hope) so our best bet is asking the Byzantines to do it for us.

[FactionHeir]

Well, first you need to make the Byz go to war with the pope and normally they dont care about Durazzo until they own Corinth and Thessalonica.

I think the rebellion against Siegfried is picking up momentum. THis diet session will be quite fun. Prepare for an extended diet though to have second voting as a result of the first round.

I also think the Diet Speaker ought to open the session this time.

I hopefully should have i-net access once or twice a day for the next week again. Cant be sure though. Try not to advance things too much hehe.

P.S. I miss smilies. And punctuation. Those Japanese keyboards are weird.