Imperial Diet V

[Privateerkev]

I wasn't even politically active when this thing was passed but I'll take a crack at it.

(b) of CA 10.2 means you need to;

first, propose a CA for the territory you wish to be part of the Reich

second, get a 2/3 vote for that CA to pass

if CA passes, the territory is part of the Reich and becomes Imperial until the Kaiser gives it to a house

if CA fails, the territory is to be abandoned or given away

if no one proposes a CA for a newly captured territory, then it is to be abandoned or given away.

How am I doing?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Jens Hummel:

Really, this whole argument is ridiculous and a waste of time.

The rules clearly say that a Charter Amendment is required to incorporate new territories into the Reich. So that means that...

Someone proposes a Charter Amendment,

People second the Amendment,

And then they vote on it.

If it passes then hey, it's a part of the Reich! Hooray, we're powerful! Drinks all around! If it fails then it's not a part of the Reich and must therefore be given away or sold. I fail to see how this legal obfuscation improves discussion at all aside from the fact that it swells certain people's heads just because since it appears that they dabble in legal matters more than the rest of us they consider themselves smarter.

Erm... where was I... Ah yes, I am Jens Hummel, I am here to serve.

[Privateerkev]

Young Jens, I think that is exactly what I said. I don't need to dabble in legal affairs to have a swollen head!

*laughs*

But anyways, welcome to the Diet. May your participation be longer and more meaningful than others of your family.

[FactionHeir]

Welcome to the diet, Jens. The Swabian benches are here. *points*

[GeneralHankerchief]

Jens Hummel:

Well then, if it's so agreed-upon then why bother discussing it in the first place?

Charter Amendment 12.2: Anyone found to be excessively over-complicating simple legal matters is to be banned from the Diet until they publicly apologize. Repeated violations will result in longer bans.

And anyone who has the balls enough to question me about the specifics of this law can go to Hell.

Good day everyone.

[Privateerkev]

*chuckles*

yup...its confirmed. He's a Hummel...

Jan returns to reading law books and paperwork

[GeneralHankerchief]

Jens Hummel:

No, I'm quite serious. Too many times has this Diet been bogged down debating on the importance of Clauses Fourteen-B through R, exempting F, I, and L when there are matters of strategy and diplomacy to be discussed. If we want a more efficient Empire then it is necessary that this Diet concentrate on the correct things. The Reich is to be run by men, not lawyers.

[Privateerkev]

Jan looks up and says to himself,

Aww, how cute. He's being serious...

[GeneralHankerchief]

Jens Hummel:

Yes, you take yourself seriously, don't you? Mister "I only became a Crusader Count because I prostituted myself to the King every chance I got." Tell me, have you saved any benefactors of yours from death at the hands of the Horse Lords lately? No, I imagine you were too busy debating with your advisors on whether to put "and" or "or" in an Edict.

[Privateerkev]

With those latest words, Jan looks up and stares Jens squarely in the eye.

Thats funny coming from someone who hasn't even seen combat yet. Luckily for you, your insulting a man that was far better than either of us could ever hope to be and he would disprove of me pounding you flat right here in the Diet.

You want to decrease the bureaucracy? Alright, then why don't you try to pass legislation that streamlines existing legislation? What you have proposed would only add a whole nother bureaucratic layer on top of what we already have. Who decides what is "excessive"? Who decides what is an "over-complication"? If your serious about making the Reich run better, then lets talk. I wasn't the one that brought up the issue with CA 10.2 anyways. I wasn't around the Diet when that was being discussed back in the 10th session.

Now, until your serious, I have inefficient business that I need to inefficiently get to.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Jens Hummel:

Alright, then why don't you try to pass legislation that streamlines existing legislation?

The legislation is streamlined, you wart. It's only insufferable pompous twits such as yourself that overcomplicate things.

[Privateerkev]

*chuckles*

insufferable? yup

pompous? guilty

twit? sure, why not

wart? not one of the better ones I've heard but what the hell

do I overcomplicate? Oh I won't even try to deny that one

But is your legislation streamlined? Sadly, the answer is no. Make it workable and I'll give it a second. Until then you will be essentially doing nothing to help the very problem you claim to care about.

Any more witty retorts?

[Cecil XIX]

Jens, you admit that your earlier proposed legislation was just wasting the Diet's time. Maybe if one of you would simply stop talking we could get on with this.

[Privateerkev]

Edmund,

Jens and I were just having a productive conversation on how the Reich could use better management. He has some good points buried in all of his spite. I welcome anyone who wishes to come in here and debate politics. I only wish more would do the same.

[AussieGiant]

Fury can be the only description to use when Arnold comes into the Diet Chamber. In an unprecedented move the Duke walks to the centre of the Chamber and stands for sometime waiting…with a sudden move he draws his father sword sweeping it through a few strokes at blinding speed, finally plunging the blade end first into the flag stones causing a shower of sparks.

Standing with feet shoulder width apart, both hands on his father sword before him, the Duke roles his neck with a practised motion causing audible cracks to echo through the halls.

RIGHT THEN!! Have we $^#^ing finished with the usual over analysis of plain ^#$^ing English!!!?? Vote on the CA, if it passes it's incorporated!!

Not waiting for a reply the Duke continues

I’d suggest the scribe gets this perfect or I’ll have him replaced immediately.

Another moment passes as the Duke gazes steadily at the Diet’s minute taker.

Kaiser, Prinz Elberhard, Dukes of the Realm….KING OF OUTREMER, Count’s of the various Houses, Crusader Counts of the East, dear electors of the Holy Roman Empire…

While I am not running for the position of Chancellor, I do have something to say.

It’s come to my attention at this point in the Reich's hisotry, that we seem to have some terminal issues to discuss.

While I stand here before you as Duke of the House of Austria, a man with the blood of his father, who is the son of Emperor Heinrich by direct decent, there seems to be some massive issues of balance at this moment in time.

I am a Duke who is as yet unmarried, therefore the direct male line of House of Austria stands on the brink of extinction…STILL.

No offence to Lord Matthias, I know he tried…

I am the Duke of one of the four ancestral houses making up the origins of this Reich.

At this time the House of Austria comprises three nobles. Both of whom had to be adopted by agreement between two great men to ensure the very existence as a House Austria continued in this chamber.

At this time I am permitted one personal edict while the House is permitted three edicts. While the rest of you enjoy the privilege of talking amongst yourselves about your House or Kingdom edicts, I on the other hand must socialise support from outside my immediate nobles who have sworn fealty directly to me.

While this may seem a minor issue to the rest of you...I would ask every Duke and KING here to think on this for a moment and wonder what it would be like to have to do this themselves!!??

…and while the House of Austria’s existence from one year to the next is in constant and real threat of extinction, the “KINGDOM” of Outremer expands time and time again.

The King wants more power and influence and so do the Counts…BUT WHERE DID THESE men come from!!? Which Noble Houses of this Reich made the initial sacrifice to secure Outremer in the first place!!??

And how does an ancestral House of this Reich become three times smaller than a Kingdom made by the Blood of these houses!!??

How does a Duke of this Realm NOW need to plead with other nobles of other Houses simply to have edicts supported to the standards we require!!

How does a King of Outremer have six edicts while a Duke has three?? How does anyone suggest that Outremer’s leader should have the same influence as those Dukes that sacrificed their own nobles in the taking of the region all those decades ago?!!!

Swinging his sword around the chamber is one mighty arc; the blow ends with the complete destruction of his father’s Ducal Seat.

THIS IS THE STATE OF MY HOUSE GENTLEMEN!!!

It stands on the brink of extinction…so while the you all think of placating me or asking me to see reason then don’t bother!!

Take a look at the numbers!! Take a look at the proposals you make, and keep in mind where Outremer came from in the first place.

Turning in a complete circle, making eye contact with each and every noble present the Duke finally speaks

Soon gentlemen you may need to create some bastardised Crusade to take Austria as it decomposes and dies in front of your eyes.

Then again that might be the perfect opportunity for you all to squabble over the prize.

It wont be four houses...

It will be three Houses and one Kingdom...

What's more $#%^ing truthful is that the offspring of this Reich could nearly pass that idea as legislation.

The situatiuon is a $%&$ing disgrace.

Sheathing his sword Arnold smashes the Diet Chamber doors open with his boot and continues outside

[Privateerkev]

Duke Arnold, I hope that in my support for Edict 11.4, I have proven my commitment to the survival of the House of Austria. I am not going to debate something I already agree with. But I will answer one question. You ask how the King could have 6 edicts. It is because 7 people voted for both CA 11.4 and CA 11.3. And I was not one of them. Two of them were from your own house.

[FactionHeir]

Hans eyes the leaving Arnold critically, but seems unstirred

Well then, Duke Arnold raises a valid point that Austria does not have 2 electors besides himself to put forth any house edict at all.
In a conciliatory move, I am prepared to use my personal edict to propose a charter amendment:

CA 12.3:
The section reading:
"Dukes may propose one personal Edict per Diet session, but also control three additional House Edict proposals per Diet session. These proposals are no different than any other Edicts, but they must have the pre-secured backing of at least two seconders from inside the Duke’s House."
is to be amended to read:
"Dukes may propose one personal Edict per Diet session, but also control three additional House Edict proposals per Diet session. These proposals are no different than any other Edicts, but they must have the pre-secured backing of at least two seconders from inside the Duke’s House. In the case where there are less than 3 electors in total in a Duke's House, the House edict may still be put forward to the diet with the requirement for a second seconder waived."

[AussieGiant]

Sometime latter the Duke enters covered in what can only be described as the most lethal looking suit of dark armour ever seen

Jan, while I am certain your support of my ancestral line is 100%, the intentions must be transformed into results somehow.

At one point there, after Sigismund was killed, there was only myself remaining.

While I have nothing personal against the men that have gone to Outremer and the sacrifice made there has been huge...the House of Austria is near it's end.

One thing I will not do is go down without a fight. That is the least I can do for my fathers memory.

Suddenly looking somewhat exhausted, Arnold continues in a more subdued tone

As for the specifics of Outremer edict...well, that is a product of too many lawyers and too many edicts in my view.

This Reich was created when things we clear and men could understand each others intentions...now it's a play ground for lawyers, sycophants and whispers in the dark.

Hans' your offer is very generous, but it does not resolve the issue at the heart of the matter. Therefore I do not want you to use your personal edict in this manner.

Pausing

You don't have to do that Hans

[Privateerkev]

Hans,

I agree with CA 12.3 but what happens in the unfortunate circumstance that there is only one person left? Under the language of this CA, can the house edict be put forward with no seconds and get those seconds from the Diet proper?

Duke Arnold,

I agree that you need results. So, what can we do about this?

[FactionHeir]

You raise an interesting point Jan. I had not thought of a House which only encompassed the Duke alone, as Duke Arnold has put forward his recent experience. As such, I shall amend the CA to read:

CA 12.3:
The section reading:
"Dukes may propose one personal Edict per Diet session, but also control three additional House Edict proposals per Diet session. These proposals are no different than any other Edicts, but they must have the pre-secured backing of at least two seconders from inside the Duke’s House."
is to be amended to read:
"Dukes may propose one personal Edict per Diet session, but also control three additional House Edict proposals per Diet session. These proposals are no different than any other Edicts, but they must have the pre-secured backing of at least two seconders from inside the Duke’s House. In the case where there are only 1 or 2 electors in total in a Duke's House, a House edict may still be put forward to the diet requiring only the number of possible seconding electors in the House as seconders."

[Privateerkev]

Then I second CA 12.3.

A Duke should not have to go to the Diet to secure support for his Ducal edicts. That just doesn't make sense. This will fix that.

[OverKnight]

Matthias raises an eyebrow at Duke Arnold's outburst.

My good Duke, I will try not to placate you, but hear me out.

First, in regard to Austria lacking a quorum of Nobles to propose legislation. I would suggest that if you and Becker can agree on legislation, you could propose a House Edict, it would just need another second from the Electors once proposed in the Diet. The Prinz would have to rule on the viability of this, since he is acting for the Emperor.

If this does not pan out, I will volunteer my own personal proposal for the use of Austria.

Second, as you may now, the Duchy of Austria is the last house in the Reich to be ruled by a direct descendant of Kaiser Heinrich. Kaiser Henry chose to pass on Swabia to Ulrich Hummel. Dietrich von Saxony and Otto von Kassel, Heinrich's son-in-laws, had no male children to pass on their Duchies to, instead they were passed on to adoptees. Your situation, while unfortunate, is not unique.

We can help with the Edicts, but marriage and child birth, particularly the latter, are in the hands of God.

[Privateerkev]

Count Matthias,

I wish we could think of some way for Duke Arnold to put forward House edicts in this Diet without needing to get seconds from the other electors. No other Duke or King needs to do this and I believe it would be wrong to force Duke Arnold to do so. I would only support that if there was no other way.

[FactionHeir]

Duke Arnold, I insist on this amendment to the charter to ensure that Austria has an equal opportunity to put forth its house edicts as any other house can.
And Matthias Steffen, I believe that a house edict should not hinge on seconders from other houses, as long as the house it comes from supports it as best as it can, which CA 12.3 will enable. You are correct on the problem of marriage however, and I would advise any future chancellor to accept any proposal of marriage for the good of the empire instead of turning them down for political gain.

[Privateerkev]

Hans, while your CA would help in the future, we need to find a way to get around this problem now. Any ideas?

[FactionHeir]

There is no way of getting around this problem immediately without going against the charter, but Duke Arnold is more than welcome to converse with Swabia and have his Austrian legislation passed as a Swabian house edict until CA 12.3 is passed.

[OverKnight]

I will second CA 12.3.

For any of you wondering, I accepted all marriage proposals made during my first term.

[AussieGiant]

Arnold

At the risk of breaking protocol;

CA 12.1 should be one of the three Austrian House edicts/charter amendments.

Thank you to everyone who has seconded the CA.

[Ituralde]

An Imperial messenger enters the Diet chambers, bearing the crest of the Emperor.

Nobles of the Reich, I bring you word from your Emperor Siegfried!

He looks slightly disgusted but continues in a steady voice.

He wants me to pass on his condolence over the death of King Salier. He was very sad to hear about the occasion. The matter of a new King of Outremere will also be resolved by the Emperor.

He once again extends his thanks to Chancellor Matthias, who has done a superb job of administering the Reich. Should he decided to run for a second time, he has the Kaisers full support.

Which leads me to the Emperor's wish to not invoke his prerogative of taking the office of Chancellor. He feels, he can't be bothered to administer the day to day affairs of the Reich. He wants to thank Prince Elberhard to for overseeing the Diet in his absence.

On to the legal matters then:

Before a new King of Outremer is appointed some clarifications have to be made concerning our Charter. The newly passed CA 11.6 contradicts itself with the Charter of Outremere. As with contradicting Edicts the Emperor decided to favour the solution that received the most votes when two Charter Amendments are contradicting. Thereby CA 11.6 is stricken from the Charter, as more people voted on the contradicting legislature of the Charter of Outremere, as can be seen by the Diets recording.

By the same reasoning the contradicting CA 11.3 and the corresponding part of CA 11.4 are resolved. Therefore CA 11.3 overrules the statements made in CA 11.4.

The post of King of Outremer is appointed to Jan von Hamburg until the next Diet session. He has shown much valour in the fight against the Mongols and will surely defeat them a third time!

That's all the Emperor has to say on matters in the Diet for now.

He bows and leaves the chamber again.

[Privateerkev]

Upon hearing the news, Jan stands up

I am honored in the faith that Kaiser Siegfried places in me. I will do my utmost to serve the Reich and the Lord. If you would all excuse me, I need to go to my quarters to deliberate. I will be back with announcements.