Imperial Diet V

[FactionHeir]

Apologies for my absence and to Duke Ansehelm for the unworthy insults of my vassal. While it is unfortunate that this had an effect on our alliance at this point, I hope that you will not think too much on some lowly man's words.

That said, few or none of us know about the conditions under which re-unification will come by and I would suggest that while healthy debate on this topic can be fruitful, outright refusing any possibility regardless how beneficial for us at this point is not wise. Let Siegfried negotiate as he wishes, but do know that it is us, the diet, who have the final say. Thus, there is absolutely nothing to worry about for the moment.

[AussieGiant]

Raising an eyebrow at the last comment

"Thus, there is absolutely nothing to worry about for the moment."

They could be some famous last words on this topic Duke Hans.

What would seem a perfectly reasonable request at this time is to have some back channel information on what is happening and progress reports from the Kaiser.

God knows how he is able to negotiate when any of the points he is talking about can be rejected by us.

And that is still my point!! By the time he comes back to us, it will be too late to do anything further that other "take it or leave it".

Looking at Prinz Elberhard

Any thoughts my Prinz?

[FactionHeir]

With all due respect Duke Arnold, I did say that healthy debate on this topic is fruitful. My last comment was directed at those who outright reject any attempt to begin with.

[OverKnight]

Matthias still looks under the weather but speaks.

While I am not a Franconian, what is to be done with Vilnius? Securing it was one of the major goals of my second term, and if its disposition is not dealt with by a CA, it will be abandoned by default. It seems a waste of all that effort.

I have also heard talk that if we do abandon it, that we should destroy its military buildings before doing so. I believe this would also require legislation.

I am surprised that is has fallen off the map, as it was quite the topic during the last session. Though considering this session, it's understandable.

Personally, from my own experience, I believe Vilnius can be defended and should be accepted into the Reich. I still think Krakow should still be taken to provide a link between Austria and Franconia and shorten our eastern border.

Of course, I am a Bavarian, so my views on these matters carry less weight than my eastern brethren.

[econ21]

Elberhard: Duke Arnold, negotiations are delicate things and are best left to individual negotiators to hammer out in private. Siegfried, due to his standing as both Kaiser and Chancellor, and his marriage tie, is uniquely placed to be our negotiator.

The Diet has the ultimate say on any Charter Amendments, but - with all respect - it is not the best place to work out a negotiating position. It is too fractious, too public and too unwieldy. Would we have to vote on each and every proposed term of the negotiations?! You know what the crusaders in Outremer call camels? - @#$%^&!!!ing horses designed by a committee!

Further, inevitably compromises must be made and, if we are to gain suzerainty over the entire Byzantine lands, we will also have to give up something in return. Until we get a feel for what the Byzantines are willing to deal, it is folly to publicly precommit ourselves to surrender this or not surrender that. If the Kaiser has first to thrash out the terms to this Diet first, he will be too constrained and have no room to bargain with the Byzantines.

The principle of the negotiations is clear - the Kaiser will become Augustus of all the combined lands of the Reich and the Byzantines, who will be - in effect - our vassals. However, for the details, let us wait to see what can be negotiated. If the Diet wishes to reject it and re-start negotiations, it may do so but at least we will be clearer about what the other side is willing to deal.

[AussieGiant]

Arnold:

Fair enough Duke Hans, I assume you are not directing your comments towards me then.

Sucking a deep lung full of air through clenched teeth Arnold leans back into his seat.

You're missing my point Prinz Elberhard.

Shaking his head in amusement and some frustration the Duke stands and makes his way towards the outer room where drink and food are normally served.

Right then, I guess it's time for some white wine and appetisers gentlemen.

And Matthias, Krakow is being addressed by Edict 13.1.

[econ21]

Elberhard: Duke Arnold, if your point is that the Kaiser should send back regular reports to the Diet on his negotiations, then be assured he will.

If your point is how can the Kaiser possibly negotiate when the Diet is full of awkward @#$%^&!!! like you, then I would have to answer - it beats me, mate.

I'll take you up on that drink, though.

[AussieGiant]

Arnold

It's good to know there will be some type if dissemination of information.

God forbid any Duke or noble wanting to actually know about one of the most important events in their lifetime before it's all over.

And last time I checked Elberhard, this isn't a mushroom farm, so sitting in the dark and being feed bullshiet WILL make me one awkward %#$er!!

Drinks it is then and the KAISER is buying!!

[Stig]

Ansehelm

Vilnius is to be abandoned would it be up to me. With taking Krakow my brothers get enough to defend, let them be occupied with that, instead of shouting in here.
In the mean time I can simply sit back and relax in Frankfurt.

[econ21]

Elberhard: Just a reminder: Dukes should post orders and designate commanders for Household Armies. Governors should post build queues and tax settings.

Any instructions posted after 3pm Monday (UK time) will not be binding.

[Privateerkev]

Jan tiredly pads into the Diet with his sleeping cap still on.

I hereby rescind CA 13.1. Please update the rolls. Thank you.

Jan stumbles back out, stubbing his toe on a pen left on the floor. His grumbling can be heard down the hall.

[econ21]

Elberhard: This Diet session is closed. A poll will be posted shortly.

[TinCow]

*Lothar Steffen storms in, knocking scribes and servants down with a loud clatter.*

What abomination is this?! Naples and Palermo given over to the Byzantines?! Bavaria fought long and hard for those lands! By all that is holy I will not see that Eastern Ponce's armies on Italian soil! This is a blatant betrayal of all of Bavaria! I will not stand for this! Byzantine armies can now freely camp within a few days march of Rome itself!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Dietrich von Dassel:

Electors, I hope you're happy. Kaiser Siegfried has broken the record for quickly violating edicts set by Ulrich Hummel several years ago. Explicitly, I might add.

He has immediately gifted Palermo and Naples to the Byzantines as a "gesture of goodwill," completely ignoring the fact that that these are the same Palermo and Naples that CA 13.2 explicitly said were to be incorporated into the Reich! This jeopardizes the security of Bavaria to no end.

But I will not call for an Emergency Session. This was, after all, the Diet's decision to let this man run wild and endanger us all. So I'll continue to cheer on the Kaiser's tearing up of the Charter, cheer it on with the rest of you and hoot and holler as our Empire goes to Hell.

[OverKnight]

Matthias pales at the mention of the gift of Palermo and Naples.

Kaiser Siegfried, with a stroke of a pen, has reversed 300 years or more of history and brought the Byzantines back into Italy. The sacrifices of my father and other Bavarians is wiped away. I don't know which is more absurd, this or the fact the Sicilians then attacked them. I suppose we'll have to dispatch an army in a few years to bail our "brothers" out.

Gifting far off provinces to the Greeks is one thing, but donating the southern half of Italy to them, right next to our capital, is another. No one in the Diet. . .

Matthias looks around marking a few faces.

. . .or at least most of the them did not know of this, or would have voted for the Kaiser's agenda if this insanity had been made clear.

This is Madness! I did not lead the Reich for forty years so it could be lopped up and given piecemeal to those who do not deserve it!

Oh, but we've had another letter from the Kaiser saying all is well. An honor that he has deigned to grace us with a letter!

Nothing good will come of this. I was a fool to belive it would, and to vote how I did.

Madness!

[Ferret]

This is indeed absurd surely the Kaiser cannot hope to stay in power for long if he does such things without even mentioning them to the Duke of the House whose territories he is throwing away.
A knife in the dark may become reality if he carries on like this, I know a few who are capable of ordering such an act. (this last comment is said under his breath)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Dietrich von Dassel:

And another thing. If our two Empires are to eventually re-unify - the definition implying that they are to become one - then what's the point of giving away provinces that we're going to get back? Answer me that, unless Emperor Isaac wants the negotations to proceed as difficult as possible for us!

[econ21]

Elberhard:

Dietrich is, of course, quite right. With re-unification, we are going to get the provinces back. His inference, of course, is quite wrong. The correct inference is that since we are going to get Naples and Palermo back, why create a hue and cry over losing them now?

But to answer Dietrich's question, the answer is @#$%^&!!!ing obvious: we give them away now so that we can get unification! Then we will not merely get these two provinces back, but gain many more from Constantinople eastwards.

And, of course, Emperor Isaac is making negotiations hard. Imagine if the situation were reversed, and Siegfried were going to negotiate with the Byzantines to put the entire Reich under the control of Isaac as Augustus. You'd expect him to bargain hard, wouldn't you?

Dieter Bresch - it is a good job I am hard of hearing or you would be out of 'ere, mate. Any whispering against the Kaiser that does come to my ear will bear severe consequences. And try to keep up - Palermo and Naples no more belonged to a Duke than Rome does! They were Imperial provinces.

Which brings me to my Bavarian brothers, Lothar and Matthias. My how they wail and protest! Yet, if we read Count Lothar's orders to the Bavarian Household Army, what do we find:

If he decides not to go, HA Otto will move to northern Italy, since Naples and Palermo have not been allocated to our House. If the Kaiser wishes these territories to be defended, he had better raise an army for them himself. Of course, Bavaria will be happy to take up that duty if they were to be allocated to those who fought so hard to take them...

Because Palermo and Naples were not allocated to Bavaria, the Bavarians were not willing to spare a single man to defend them. And yet how they wail at their loss now. Such hypocrisy!

Compare this with the stance of our Swabian brothers. Long have they bled and died for Paris and Caen, which the Kaiser - in his wisdom - denied to their House. But they were true members of the Reich, willing to sacrifice for the greater good and not concerned solely with the self-interest of their House.

Finally, talking of good Swabians, I must return to my friend Dietrich. Dietrich seems to think that it is against our Charter to give away territories. Yes, Palermo and Naples were incorporated into the Reich - the Kaiser even voted for that. But that does not imply they may not be gifted at a later stage. Several times have we gifted territory to secure diplomatic or other advantages. The entire point of not allocating Palermo and Naples to Bavaria was so that the Kaiser retained the freedom to dispense with them as he pleased. If the Charter Amendment had not been past, the Kaiser would have been forced to dispose of them immediately - regardless of whether their use in diplomacy was opportune.

Or, indeed, regardless of whether the Bavarians had decided to keep their honour and promised to defend what they had ever so bravely captured.

[OverKnight]

Matthias rises and bites off each word he speaks.

Don't lump me in with my brother, mein Prinz. I have no say in HA orders, I am concerned that we have given away, with little visible gains, two territories that were once considered part of the heartland of the Roman Republic and Empire. And yes, as a Bavarian, I am deeply concerned that my House now has a new neighbor. I would also remind you that a Bavarian Household Army will be executing Imperial policy in Thessalonica, so you best not antagonize my House or my brother too much.

Whether this is legal or not is of little concern. The Kaiser, and it saddens me, you mein Prinz, have hid the truth of these negotiations from the Electors. You both sold us a false bill of goods during the last Session, and now we see what you both had planned all along. I wonder what wonderful new surprises await us? I salute you both in your ability to bribe and hoodwink this body, myself included, but we will only tolerate so much. Chancellors have been removed from power before, and that option, despite the disdain the Kaiser holds toward this body, in actions if not in words, we still retain.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Dietrich von Dassel:

*sputtering in disbelief*

But, this is p-propostorous! What is the point of the incorporating something into the Reich in the first place - and voting for it too, I might add! - if you're just going to give it away at the first possible moment?! While this may be legal, it is most certainly ridiculous and a gigantic waste of time.

The Kaiser should have gotten our approval, German approval, first before he ran off to his whorehouses - excuse me, I meant diplomatic negotiations - in Constantinople to eagerly iron out the proposal with Emperor Isaac. Then we could all have been spared this mess.

[econ21]

Elberhard: I apologise to Count Matthias, and indeed to other Bavarians, for my hot-headed words. I spoke too quickly and without thought in impugning the honour of his noble House. The Count is right - the Bavarian Household Army Otto is sailing to Thessalonica in support of an Imperial mission and indeed our Eastern Roman brothers. My foolish words do them a great injustice. I @#$%^&!!!ed up. I am sorry.

But Matthias, I assure you - the Kaiser did not tell me of his intentions to gift these two provinces during or before the last Session of the Diet. I reiterate - the Kaiser is the Chancellor, not me. I am merely executing the instructions he relays and speaking for him in the Diet in his absence. I was not informed of the gifting until it was done. Indeed, I am not sure that the Kaiser himself knew of his plan to gift the provinces at the last Diet. I believe it was a decision made more spontaneously during the initial negotiations. Perhaps I am wrong on that. But that I personally am an ignorant @#$%^&!!!er, there can be little doubt.

[AussieGiant]

Strolling into the Diet from the adjoining salon where refreshments are served the Duke wanders over to the scribes.

For quite some time he rifles through them, making a number of audible exclamation sounds while eating a handful of cashew nuts. Slapping a few of the scribes on the hand, he begins to collect quite a number of sheets…finally he walks to the centre of the chamber, turning back to the scribes desk he asks quietly

You have copies correct…

A startled nod is more than enough for the Duke to continue.

MY LORDS!!!

May I have your attention for a few moments?

Pausing he finish's off the nuts and wipes his hand on the top of one of the scribes head to clean it.

Having just re-read a few of the most recent comments regarding this little “DEAL” being done in Constantinople, I’m reminded of a few lines…and I quote;

"We will also have to give up something in return"

"let us wait to see what can be negotiated"

"By the time he comes back to us, it will be too late to do anything further that other "take it or leave it"."

"Land, armies, titles, positions they will all be a topic of discussion and all are potential pieces to be bartered, traded and exchanged to make this deal work."

"I’m totally sure some of it will be unsavoury for some if most of us."

"If it is something we don't like, we will simply defeat the re-unification CA"

"The Prince has laid out that it will be us who will be in the primary power position in that relationship"

"and the subtle indications are that this negotiation is not being conducted from such a powerful position as we may all think."

"And I am not aware that any one of us will be asked to relinquish anything to the Byzantines except Prince Elberhard"

"When Kaiser Siegfried has completed his negotiations with the Byzantines, he will return to the Diet and present the result for your approval. Until then, for @#$%^&!!!s sake, stop calling for his premature return and address any questions you have to me."

"The Diet has not been ignored and will not be ignored."

"Those are the Kaiser's terms. If the Kaiser can get the Byzantines' agreement on these points, then he will return to the Diet to discuss the conditions for this agreement. If you do not like the Kaiser's terms or the Byzantine conditions, you - and indeed the whole Diet - will have an opportunity to vote them down."

And my personal favourite...

“There is absolutely nothing to worry about for the moment.”

Now I'd like to state that I firmly believe the men I have quoted are doing nothing but upholding the morals and values they believe in...

However...I don't want to be #$%#$ing rude my Lords, but the bequeathing of Palermo and Naples to our beloved Allies seems like quite a nice FIRST step towards an ongoing and highly entertaining event...

walking back towards the salon Arnold says to no one in particular

...I'm just wonder gentlemen when any of you will begin to wonder just what the @$#%@ is going on here, because I get the impression we are being bent over that chair over there...

Arnold waves his hand in the general direction of the Empress's vacant throne

...and being rodgered into submission!!!

I'll be in the salon if anyone thinks we have something to worry about....BECAUSE clearly everything that was quoted before is still 100 percent accurate...

As salon doors slams shut the Duke can be heard bellowing

...MY ARSE!!!

[TinCow]

*Duke Lothar stands and follows Arnold out of the Diet.*

[Tamur]

*Fritz von Kastilien rises and nods to the electors present*

My lords, something of a problem I notice in the latest Chancellor's report. I am wondering if any of you can shed some light on a line here...

*Fritz clears his throat and squints at a sheet of parchment, then reads*

"I have lost contact with the Prussian Household Army under Count Péter von Kastilien."

*Fritz lowers the parchment and looks around*

The last letter I received from Péter indicated that he feared for his life after this Diet session just passed. However, I sincerely hope he has not come to harm.

Anyone who has information regarding my brother's whereabouts, please contact me as soon as possible.

[Stig]

Ansehelm:
If I lose one brother I have no problems in killing another one myself

*Ansehelm follows Lothar and Arnold out of the Diet*

[econ21]

Elberhard looks puzzled at Duke Ansehelm's statement.

Elberhard: (Mutters to himself) A Franconian Household army goes AWOL and the Duke blames the Kaiser?

(Louder, to the entire Diet): I am pleased to announce that the Pontiff and the Patriach of Constantinople have reached an agreement on religious reunification. Henceforth, there will be no Catholic Church, nor Eastern Orthodox church, merely the Church. This religious reunification surely sets the ground for political unification of the Reich and the Byzantine Empire.

(Mutters to himself again, ironically.): I think I can hear the Dukes celebrating from here...

[Tamur]

*Fritz von Kastilien stands, sits, stands again. He strides forward into the centre of the chamber and looks around solemnly.*

You heard the man, everyone.

Now go back to your respective commands, or cities, or back to enforced idleness in some cases.

And while we're there, everyone please contemplate his sins, confess to the local priest and...

Oh, you don't want the priest to be standing beside you while you confess? Don't worry, you will soon become used to it.

After you're done confessing, perhaps your priest will offer words of comfort, telling you that through your confession you've drawn closer to your personal deification. Don't like that? Well, you will get used to it.

And as you're departing, your priest will now tell you to be sure to pray that your ancestors will be drawn closer to God. Thought they were with him? Think again, they still have a long way to go.

All hell has broken loose, my friends. May God have mercy on the Reich.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Dietrich von Dassel:

Religious re-unification is as far as it goes. I demand that the Kaiser seeks our further approval before he takes any further steps. This has dragged on for too long already.

[Warmaster Horus]

Agreed.

Whilst an alliance, a strong and secure one, is always a great thing for any nation in this world, the idea of an alliance is to assist both nations involved. For now, it seems to me only Byzantium is profiting.

[AussieGiant]

Walking back in from the salon Arnold is holding a parchment.

Gentlemen,

I am receiving reports from a number of sources.

It seems there has been a sighting of the Prussian Army just south of Vienna. Two regiments of Spear Militia have deserted their post from Prague and joined Peter von Kastilien's forces.

Looking at Ansehelm

Ansehelm what the $@% is your man doing exactly!