Americas Campaign: Apache

[aimlesswanderer]

Yeah I know, I am exterminating the Frenchies ATM, and am eyeing up the Tarascans who now border me. With Apache units being so low upkeep I have lots of stacks running around, and am recruiting koitsenkos and the new thunder braves as fast as I can. Shouldn't be long before I get the rest of the advanced units.

[kitbogha]

I don't think the Tarascans are too hectic, I marched straight through scattering them in the tribes' path like so many poor fools, they who thought they could stand up to the great Apache nation.
Make sure you get producing armies and attack relentlessly with lots of stacks making their way to the front as your vanguard rips up their forward outposts and armies, as they are as numerous as grains of sand in the desert......the biggest problem with being the Apaches is that you do not have roads, so it is grindingly tedious moving men forward to replace your losses.

[predaturd]

this has been an interesting read here cant wait to make use of it in 4 days time :)

[Liberator]

; indian_hunters_1 Recruit 20 missile units & Capture 5 settlements
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType apachean
and I_CompareCounter apachean_missile_recruited > 19
and I_CompareCounter apachean_settlements_captured > 4

add_events
event counter indian_hunters_1
date 0
end_add_events

if I_LocalFaction apachean
historic_event apachean_hunters_1 factions { apachean, }
end_if

terminate_monitor
end_monitor

; indian_hunters_2 Recruit 50 missile units & Capture 10 settlements
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType apachean
and I_CompareCounter apachean_missile_recruited > 49
and I_CompareCounter apachean_settlements_captured > 9

add_events
event counter indian_hunters_2
date 0
end_add_events

if I_LocalFaction apachean
historic_event apachean_hunters_2 factions { apachean, }
end_if

terminate_monitor
end_monitor

; indian_raiders_1 20 infantry units & Win 5 battles
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType apachean
and I_CompareCounter apachean_infantry_recruited > 19
and I_CompareCounter apachean_settlements_captured > 9

add_events
event counter indian_raiders_1
date 0
end_add_events

if I_LocalFaction apachean
historic_event apachean_raiders_1 factions { apachean, }
end_if

terminate_monitor
end_monitor

; indian_raiders_2 Recruit 50 infantry units & Win 10 battles
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType apachean
and I_CompareCounter apachean_infantry_recruited > 49
and I_CompareCounter apachean_settlements_captured > 14

add_events
event counter indian_raiders_2
date 0
end_add_events

if I_LocalFaction apachean
historic_event apachean_raiders_2 factions { apachean, }
end_if

terminate_monitor
end_monitor

; indian_horses_1 Defeat an army with cavalry 10 times
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType apachean
and I_CompareCounter apachean_cavalry_killed > 1

add_events
event counter indian_horses_1
date 0
end_add_events

if I_LocalFaction apachean
historic_event apachean_cavalry_1 factions { apachean, }
end_if

terminate_monitor
end_monitor

; indian_horses_2 Defeat an army with cavalry 20 times
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType apachean
and I_CompareCounter apachean_cavalry_killed > 2

add_events
event counter indian_horses_2
date 0
end_add_events

if I_LocalFaction apachean
historic_event apachean_cavalry_2 factions { apachean, }
end_if

terminate_monitor
end_monitor

; indian_horses_3 Defeat an army with cavalry 30 times
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType apachean
and I_CompareCounter apachean_cavalry_killed > 3

add_events
event counter indian_horses_3
date 0
end_add_events

if I_LocalFaction apachean
historic_event apachean_cavalry_3 factions { apachean, }
end_if

terminate_monitor
end_monitor

; indian_guns_1 Defeat an army with gunpowder 10 times
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType apachean
and I_CompareCounter apachean_gunpowder_killed > 1

add_events
event counter indian_guns_1
date 0
end_add_events

if I_LocalFaction apachean
historic_event apachean_guns_1 factions { apachean, }
end_if

terminate_monitor
end_monitor

; indian_guns_2 Defeat an army with gunpowder 20 times
monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType apachean
and I_CompareCounter apachean_gunpowder_killed > 2

add_events
event counter indian_guns_2
date 0
end_add_events

if I_LocalFaction apachean
historic_event apachean_guns_2 factions { apachean, }
end_if

terminate_monitor
end_monitor

[russveld]

i play with the apaches on hotseat with a friend all the time and basicly, spam dog soldiers and scout or medicine men. war path asap. use the warpath to hire mercs. and take every town from the capital to the atlantic. ally with the civ just soulh because they will act as a barrier aginst the mesos. prepare for the french. once u get the mtb rush each ciz one by one. i finished turn 83 and only my buddy was left.(we had not faught before) and we battled over the the map until turn 117 were i took his capital and all but 3 cities then made him my vassal.

[Der Kuenstler]

Hello - new to this forum and the Americas Campaign and have some quick newbie questions related to income:

1) Do the Apaches ever get any units that are the equivalent of merchants that can trade resources?

2) Do they ever make use of fishing villages or build canoes?

3) I got trade agreements with two factions in one turn but on the next turn my trade income was exactly the same - 513 - why is that?

[kitbogha]

Hello - new to this forum and the Americas Campaign and have some quick newbie questions related to income:

1) Do the Apaches ever get any units that are the equivalent of merchants that can trade resources?

2) Do they ever make use of fishing villages or build canoes?

3) I got trade agreements with two factions in one turn but on the next turn my trade income was exactly the same - 513 - why is that?

1) No. Rather annoying, with better trade options you could do fantastically well with the Apaches. You may note they can't build mines etc either.

2) No. Frustrating, but probably historically accurate, they were never renowned seafarers. It would be cool to lauch raids up rivers, though...

3) Don't know. Maybe it is only there for diplomacy reasons, ie makes your standing better with other factions.

[Der Kuenstler]

OK thanks for the info - my trade income did go up eventually....

[Der Kuenstler]

OK another question: How the heck do the wisemen gain experience? My startup wiseman died and all of my new ones just sit there with one star - even when I leave them in territories with low percentage of great spirit.

[kitbogha]

OK another question: How the heck do the wisemen gain experience? My startup wiseman died and all of my new ones just sit there with one star - even when I leave them in territories with low percentage of great spirit.

I found the same thing happened to me. Frustrating. Especially when you need them to call a warpath so you can recruit infantry cannon fodder for attacks on the mesoamericans (Aztecs etc) who have lots of heavy infantry (a good way of taking them on is to use expendable mercenaries to pin them while your superior missile troops take them out).....but they can't do this until they are at a higher level. Can't think of any advice but if you find a way, do share it.

[Enron]

Just started my Apache campaign and have taken all but 3 of the Rebs easternmost settlements. The French have gotten 1 of them so it looks like the warpath is about to begin. I have a full stack moving towards the french settlement picking up troops along the way.

Question: Of I have read everything correctly so far once I take the french town I will have to destroy it then rebuild it right?

I am also moving the majority of my troops south the begin the campaign in that region to create a bottleneck against troops moving north. The spanish have a settlement in the southeast side of mexico and appear to be moving north into my lands. Looks like fresh meat is on the menu for tonight furnished by spain.

[Sheogorath]

A little experimentation has led me to the following conclusion:
Thunderbraves pwn.

I had an army with eight of them. Four in the center, and two on each flank, angled slightly so that they formed a sort of concave shape towards the enemy (the French, in this case).
The French army was one of those standard 'pop up in the middle of nowhere with a few hundred men' affairs, mostly consisting of musketeers, pikemen, and a couple units of cavalry.
First thing, I thought those cavalry were going to destroy me. And, indeed, I considered running for it when they charged.
But lo, the concentrated fire of four thunderbrave units reduced BOTH of them to five men by the time they made contact, after which they routed. The remaining French units were slaughtered in equally horriffic fashion. I lost twenty men because a unit of thunderbraves briefly 'forgot' I had the 'skirmishing' option on.
Sometimes I think the AI just doesn't like it when you win a battle with no casualties >_>

My current defensive strategy is the ol' 'harass to death' standby which worked wonders against any phalanx-based faction in RTW. Mounted thunderbraves are best, but regular mounted braves work quite fine as well.

Basically, all you do is gather up a stack of 4-6 mounted units and send it to your border. On contact with the enemy, shoot them up, then, once you run out of ammo, retreat. Simple, yet effective.
Although on some of the maps the AI seems to have trouble remembering to skirmish properly <_<
Just repeat the same process over and over again. When an enemy unit routes, rush in and use melee to slaughter the remainder. You can take out a full stack in a few battles if you do it right.

[mrx47]

I noticed that with a war member you cant build watch towers in certain provinces, while the same war member already build several watch towers in others. For example i cant build any watch towers in Coahuila. Im wondering why

[benadin]

After completing New Spain's campaign, I turned "to the other side", so I played Apache's one.

Economy.
First I noticed that provinces are really short on population, consequently even cheap buildings quickly used all the money from the treasury. Moreover unit support is cheap, but not the unit production! Taking the fact, that each battle costs you lives and units, the money is a bit issue at the beginning. War paths help a lot, however you can't make them very often. What really brings you money is taking your south neighbour's settlements. Taking a >10k population city brings you a lot of gold from Raid and from further farming. Good I never experienced high riot level.

At the beginning you are really short on infantry units. You can hire ones during warpaths, but they will eat all your money for the support after warpath is over.

Facing European factions
All negative experiences I earned playing for New Spain has proved themselves here:
1. Musketeers are of a little use - they have long recharge speed and are slow. After all they are easily bitten with your apachean scouts which can hide aside and then run for them after main forces are in battle.

2. Bombards can't hit the target from the long distance - it misses most of the time. Canon units are easily bitten with the same scout ones.

3. Cavalry need to get involved in a melee, where they are not that strong as when they are charging. Then get them killed with surrounding archers and braves. The best is to get cavalry charge in a rough terrain (hills, trees, buildings), so charge effect is minimized.

4. Crossbows need to be attacked by melee units, - they loose hand to hand combats.

5. The most challenge remains for the heavy armored infantry. Envelope them with your infantry having medicine men chanting behind and braves throwing morale killer spears. In my case they simply route after I got won with all other units and applied described technique.

[Bilgediver]

Right now I've pretty much conqered all but the last few settlements, I'm competing with the Mayans to see who finishes first (I actually got a message saying the Mayans were about to reach their winning objectives!)

All European factions have been destroyed, I destroyed the French, the Mayans must've destroyed the English and the Spanish. They destroyed the Aztecs too, they didn't last long.

What's weird is that the Tarascans replaced the Aztecs. I easily forayed into Chichimec territory. I sent armies down the west coast of Mexico and got in through the first back door into Tarascan Territory. But now am having a HELL of a time fighting the Tarascans. I'm going for the copout, and playing like I'm the Sarmations/Scythians/Armenians by using full stacks of Mounted Thunder Braves. Even Onde's men are overrated, as they just get wiped out due to their low armor. The problem is the Tarascans due to their bonus keep fielding stacks and stacks of huge ass armies (like the other Roman Factions in RTW), and almost all of them are archers (And they keep trying to get into shooting wars, they just can't learn that they can't compete against muskets). The Chichimecs are destroyed, I'm 2 cities away from winning but now I'm worried about fighting aginst the Mayans.

[Maltz]

Playing on VH/VH, won the long campaign before turn 30 (23 or 24). Here are the moves:

(1) First, call Warpath on the most north-eastern settlement. Split armies into 2. One heads east and one heads west. Collect all possible settlements. Here are ways to dodge desertion in case you need to capture something not really on the straight path:

- Have a second general to accompany the army. Share your starting units, so both generals are Warpath-ed. Use a single general unit and hired mercenaries to capture a not-on-the-path settlement.
- End your turn in a city.
- Desertion only happens starting on the 2nd turn of the Warpath-ed general. Therefore, when you almost complete the goal, feel free to have everyone join the Warpath and just go crazy to capture some more settlements!

Your eastern army can go all the way to Florida. You should be able to capture the Warpath target on turn 10. Then cover Florida and starts building troops. French comes on turn 20. You should be fine for this wave, since you can call another Warpath by turn 20.

(2) During your North America run, get the +5000 or +2000 with best units bonus from the elders. You can change your capitals freely so the best unit award always land on the proper place.

(3) Your southern friends and rivals, except Spain (you can't sail), can be taken care by assassins. Before that, just ally with everyone to sell trades & maps, etc.

(4) Use your 2nd Warpath to sweep half meso-America to reach 30 settlements!

Unfortunately, the requirement for horse and guns are still very far away - you win too fast! :) The best bow and spear units rock, though! (Heavy + Fast infantry!)

[O'Hea]

I'm really enjoying the Aztecs. Since they don't have the heavy troops to just muscle through a fight, ambush and maneuver is more important than with any other faction I've played. Also, 12 missile attack for an archer is just crazy.

[Tai-Pan]

I got Medieval II and kingdoms for Christmas and have been playing through the campaigns. Playing the Apache was absolutely the least amount of fun I have ever had with any Total War campaign. I must have been doing something wrong. I quickly conquered everything north of the Chichimec, and then started south. After defeating the French, my armies were composed of mounted thunder braves, with an occaisional group of thunder braves defending a town. All of the battles were pretty much the same. I put my MTB's in skirmish mode, they shot the enemy until they ran out of ammo, then the enemy was pretty much weak enough that I could pick them off with cavalry charges. It was a successful tactic 9 times out of 10, but very very repetetive and it took a long time to complete battles. I never got to the point where I could recruit Koitsenko's or Onde's men, and pretty much everything else got slaughtered against the Mesoamericans. Even if I had one unit that wasn't mounted (most times a general) the enemy would walk through hellfire to get to them. I lost a ton of generals that way and then my MTB's had to finish.

I might try the Americas campaign again and give the Apache another shot, but the America campaign kinda seems like it might not be so great. There is not a whole lot of unit or technology development, other than the Apaches trying to steal horses and guns. It seems like the same armies always meeting, and I don't really like only having about three different kinds of factions to fight (Indians, Mesoamericans, Europeans)

Anyone else share my feelings about America?

[marcotuliu]

I still didnt understood if with the apaches we take the gunpowder and horses (in my opinion essencial) from battles or taking settlements... Also do they have to have troops with horses and gunpowder in order to get this technologies? or in case of city attacks, there should be buildings capable of doing them? Thank you for this great forum.

[Extreme Total War]

Dear fellow War Chiefs,

Recently I started playing this campaign after a long time of nog playing any Total War game. Back then I only played the Aztecs and Spain as far as I can remember so this was quite a challenge. While playing I overcame most difficulties that arise while playing with the Apache tribes. After defeating the French and dealing with the Chichimeca tribes (quite similar to the Apache faction), I started to built my assault against the Tlaxcalans Tribes. When I launched my attack, invading multiple lands with 2 stacks, I soon found out that the Tarascans had even more! Not familiar with more then an opponent able to bring 10+ stacks to the battlefield I fell back after some huge losses and minor wins. However, with replenishing my armies (so xp remains) and building even extra ones, I slowly fought my way back on the west side of Northern America. On the east side I quickly massacred New Spain which had also 10 stacks, although those were quite easy to deal with using enormous missle forces. By turn 80 I finally got myself to the point where I encountered the Aztecs and Taxaclans. Around turn 95 the Tarascans where whipe from the map (destroyed) and I declared war to the Aztecs and Taxaclans. This proved to be an even harder challange. The Aztecs, seemingly only using missle units, lucky where also fighting the Mayans and so where the Taxaclans. At turn 104 I won the Campaign (by far the fastest in turns) but my purpose was Total War and Total Domination! So I decided to continue playing and conquer all regions. At that point the Aztecs as well as the Taxaclans where getting sandwiched by my forces and the Mayans. Around turn 120 the Aztecs were destroyed, leaving the Taxaclans as solo faction for functioning as buffer between the Apache Tribes (me) and Mayans.

At turn 130, thinking I was ready, finally declared war to the last remaining faction The Mayans (after the England faction leader (with no settlement) tragically died by a Mayans' assassin). And so the nightmare begon!! Constantly streaming full stack armies to the frontline I hardly managed to hold the lines. Over 50+ stack total where spotted by my scouts and probably more on their way.

Lets skip to turn 175. After hours and hours of gameplay I managed to conquer 4 regions after sometimes switching hands up to 12 times. It's almost looked like a weird version of Stalingrad, fight for every centimeter. Even though I got these 4 regions (I still had around 30 to go) The Mayans had multiple advantages:
1. They had, as far as I could tell, infinite money, meaning
-------- a. No succesfull bribes for my diplomats
-------- b. Endless recruiting and replenishing
2. Their melee units are highly superior, especially in the auto-resolve
3. They seem only to make melee units (heavy infantery)

Luckely I had:
1. Mounted Thunder Braves
2. Also endless money
3. War Path

My disadvantages:
1. After capturing a settlement you need to build all from scratch
2. Weak units (low armour)
3. Very long reinforments time.
The mayans can move 3 regions in 1 turn while I had to wait 2-7 turns for units to move across a single region. This was the hardest of them all. Especially compared with number 1.



I'm currently at turn 185 and lost 1 region. Every turn takes soooo long lol.

QUESTION: Does anyone has any tips that are usefull against the Mayans (from Apache point of view).