Out of character thread XV

[TinCow]

TinCow: if we are playing out the Battle for the Flemish Crossroads, then Tamur should have time to play his battle.

That is true. Tamur can play the battle if he wants. It really is a minor issue, though, since the battle is his entire army against 1 general's bodyguard inside a city. On autoresolve he wins with about 7 casualties.

[Tamur]

Plus I don't run the risk of waxing the general with a stray artillery round. Ah, the ransom money! *rubs hands together greedily*

[TinCow]

I think the ransom money is pretty much impossible to get. On autoresolve, you pretty much never capture city defenders. Playing manually, I dont think he will leave the town square, since he's the only defending unit. Thus he can't rout and be captured.

[econ21]

Playing manually, I dont think he will leave the town square, since he's the only defending unit.

I think he may leave if you shoot at him. The AI seems reluctant to just stand there and get shot to death - even in a town square.

[FactionHeir]

Depends actually. If you send only your missile and only few forward, they might come out and get you. If all your units camp outside or even inside the square, they'll most likely stay idle.

[Stuperman]

Happy belated FH.

Any idea on when next turn starts? not to complain, it's just been awhile since the last status report.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I think TC said later tonight.

[Privateerkev]

That might have changed though since the Flemish Crossroads is still being played out. If TC hits end turn now, IG will probably lose Bruges to the AI. So, he needs to win the PvP battle this turn or he will be hurting for money next turn.

So, I think we are in a bit of limbo until the PvP gets sorted out.

[TinCow]

Yes, we are in limbo due to Flemish Crossroads. The game cannot advance until either it is over or econ21 concludes that not enough progress is being made on it. Assuming orders continue to be submitted in a timely manner, I expect it to last at least a 2-3 more days. Thus, my new estimate for the next turn is the end of the week. Sorry all, this is the price of allowing PvP.

[Privateerkev]

I don't mind that we wait for the PvP. It is a cool part of the game and adds a lot. But I only wish that both players involved would submit their orders in more timely of a fashion. Both players have skipped submitting orders and it is dragging the whole battle out.

If both players would have submitted their orders when Econ has asked for them, the battle could have been over by now. But both armies just keep sitting on their hills and staring at each other. And that gets a little frustrating.

[econ21]

Well, prompted by the Danish threat to Bruges, Ignoramus has committed to a significant attack - albeit in late afternoon. Both sides have lost around five units a piece. The enemy lines are eyeball to eyeball now, so there may well be a decisive outcome in the evening phase.

I am giving both players a chance to withdraw at night time without significant risk. I know TinCow wanted a decisive outcome, but they only have to press the attack to achieve that.

I think in future PvP battles, we first should have a screening procedure where one player at least has to indicate they want to seriously attack. I think the problem with both of the Hummel vs von Salza battles is that the balance of forces has been so equal, both players have been reluctant to attack. That's probably sensible and indeed very realistic (ancient and medieval warfare seems littered with battles where combat was declined as it was not seen as sufficiently advantageous). However, it does risk wasting a lot of time and effort.

[Cecil XIX]

Quite sensible. Oh, and happy belated Birthday Factionheir.

[TinCow]

I think in future PvP battles, we first should have a screening procedure where one player at least has to indicate they want to seriously attack. I think the problem with both of the Hummel vs von Salza battles is that the balance of forces has been so equal, both players have been reluctant to attack. That's probably sensible and indeed very realistic (ancient and medieval warfare seems littered with battles where combat was declined as it was not seen as sufficiently advantageous). However, it does risk wasting a lot of time and effort.

At the same time, I really want the situation in Swabia to resolved before the Diet reconvenes in 1340. I cannot imagine how we can have any kind of binding legislation when there is an active internal war going on. If the Diet said that Hans retained all of Swabia, but Wolfgang still held cities and his own armies, there is no way he would cooperate. Since PvP battles will end with the cataclysm, this means that active internal wars after 1340 will cause a great deal of IC/OOC conflicts. Sure, we could probably muddle through them, but it would be far easier if there was simply a single person in charge of Swabia, or at the very least multiple people who were not fighting each other and open to negotiations. (e.g. Wolfgang and Dietrich) So, I'm trying to push towards a resolution of the Swabian Civil War before the cataclysm ends.

Fortunately, I don't think that will be much of a problem, as long as Flemish Crossroads is decisive. Hans is anything but indecisive in his moves and the whole thing may well be wound up by the end of 1328, maybe 1330 at the latest.

[OverKnight]

Remember, Outremer isn't just for psychotic one eyed religious fanatics. We offer a generous employment package for those who find themselves on a losing side of a fraternal conflict.

There are many positions available, with new oppurtunities for advancement opening up after each Greek attack.

Crusading, it's not just a job, it's an adventure!

[econ21]

At the same time, I really want the situation in Swabia to resolved before the Diet reconvenes in 1340. I cannot imagine how we can have any kind of binding legislation when there is an active internal war going on. If the Diet said that Hans retained all of Swabia, but Wolfgang still held cities and his own armies, there is no way he would cooperate. Since PvP battles will end with the cataclysm, this means that active internal wars after 1340 will cause a great deal of IC/OOC conflicts. Sure, we could probably muddle through them, but it would be far easier if there was simply a single person in charge of Swabia, or at the very least multiple people who were not fighting each other and open to negotiations. (e.g. Wolfgang and Dietrich) So, I'm trying to push towards a resolution of the Swabian Civil War before the cataclysm ends.

I am not sure - I think a political solution might be an alternative to a military one. It would be rather fun to try to legislate one when Swabia is still fractured. See how hard it is playing Kofi Annand for a while. For it to work without conflict, it would have to be a compromise - not one side taking everything.

But we could continue to have PvP battles after the cataclysm - we've let people rebel before and this time we did leave continued conflict after the cataclysm open as an option. However, whoever defies legislation would have to factor in other Electors or the Chancellor intervening militarily to enforce that legislation.

I think the political aftermath of the cataclysm could be as interesting as the prelude or the main event.

[FactionHeir]

So the turn won't end before the battle is resolved? I would think that it wouldn't matter too much, as econ (or was it TC?) said that after the battle, neither army would be able to move anyway to represent exhaustion and a long winded tiring battle.

[Warluster]

My orders are in.

[Ignoramus]

I'm about to send my orders, I'm just waiting on a reply to a query from econ. So actually, this turn's taken almost no time.

[econ21]

So the turn won't end before the battle is resolved? I would think that it wouldn't matter too much, as econ (or was it TC?) said that after the battle, neither army would be able to move anyway to represent exhaustion and a long winded tiring battle.

That was a proposal I made. But later, we have agreed to let Ignoramus have a chance to relief Bruges in this turn if he wins the battle. This implies both armies will be able to move freely next turn.

[econ21]

OK, the battle for the Flemish Crossroads is over - Hummel won, but von Salza escaped with his cavalry and archers. I'll post details in the battle thread.

Ignoramus: you have a battle to fight - to relieve Bruges - before we can end the turn.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/KOTR1326-11.zip

Please post the after battle screen with the casualties etc when you are done.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Just read the battle thread. Congrats to Ignoramus, and well done to econ21 - you're up to your usual PvP standard.

[gibsonsg91921]

cool, looks like hans is gonna have to intervene on this one. if the principality wins the civil war, we should start thinking about how we're gonna deal with that. econ, u'll be kaiser, most likely, and u'll need to make the settlement.

[Stuperman]

given his repuataion as kaiser, I'd surprised if anyone listened to him, no offence econ.

[Privateerkev]

Remember, Outremer isn't just for psychotic one eyed religious fanatics. We offer a generous employment package for those who find themselves on a losing side of a fraternal conflict.

There are many positions available, with new oppurtunities for advancement opening up after each Greek attack.

Crusading, it's not just a job, it's an adventure!

OK, I promise you that if Jan comes back to Outremer, he will serve King Matthias as loyally and faithfully as Matthias served him.

[AussieGiant]

Cecil,

I'd enquire about vacancies with OK just to keep your options open

[OverKnight]

Well the Boss Man is coming back to Europe, so everyone should get their fuedin' and fussin' out of their system before the Return of the Kaiser.

Should be interesting when Elberhard makes landfall, much less exactly where he shows up. I also want this turn to end so I can finally find out what Jan is up to. I've got to know where to forward the mail to.

[AussieGiant]

"Boss man"...somehow agreeing to give away whole swaths of territory and enter into a unilateral deal with the Byzantine's takes some of the sting out of that title


If I have counts upset with me...for god knows what reason, then you could probably imagine the Kaiser - Duke relationships being somewhat strained no?

[Privateerkev]

I also want this turn to end so I can finally find out what Jan is up to. I've got to know where to forward the mail to.

Your assuming Jan is going to leave Timbuktu this turn. It is so peaceful he might just stay there. *meditates*

That and it takes multiple turns to sail to far off places. I hear Scotland is beautiful this time of year. ^_^

[FactionHeir]

1-0 for the rebels, huh? Well, let's make it 1-1 this turn

[GeneralHankerchief]

Bring it, FH.

Bring it.