Anyone have this feeling to when playing the KH?

**Davidian** · 10-26-2007, 10:24

Everytime i load up a KH campaign i cant shake the feeling that i am playing an outdated faction?

It seems like the makedonians at least have their cav wich is still effective and the seleukids and surrounding hellenic factions have different ethnic groups to heal the flaws some of the hoplites have.

Even the spartans cant help much if you ran out of cash and makedonia attacks.

**The Internet** · 10-26-2007, 10:46

Thats because by that time they are technically out dated, especially by factions like the Macedons although they do have their Theropaii (i don't know the spelling, but they're heavily armoured skirmishers which the Greek states were pretty slow to use IRL) and although their cavarly isn't a heavy hitter like the Macedons cavarly, if you use it with other infantry it can be very useful.

You have to remember that the city states developed a form of warfare that was well suited to fighting each other and it was generally good at fighting lightly-armed Persian troops but after the start time of EB they had a much harder job fending off armies that had more than just a line of heavy infantry as they did because cavarly was becoming a much more effective weapon, very much thanks to Philip and Alexander.

**blank** · 10-26-2007, 10:51

i actually find it easy to deal with phalanxes using my hoplites. You see, phalanxes aren't really an offensive weapon, plus they are rigid and slow. Effectively your hoplites can simply avoid the sluggish phalanxes and go straight for their support troops and cavalry. After that is done, surround the stranded phalanxes and they will rout.
Even if you are forced to engage phalanxes with hoplites, the phalanxes will take their sweet time fighting them, giving you ample opportunity to attack them from behind

Against a human player it is harder, but the AI is so stupid that you shouldn't have any problems...

**different_13** · 10-26-2007, 11:00

Don't the KH get a (or possibly 2) phalanx?
Or is this only late in the game (reform related)?

As mentioned, they have imitation legionnaires (well, something similar) as well. I don't see how their army is significantly worse than the Macedonian one..

**Watchman** · 10-26-2007, 11:16

They have a post-reform pike phalanx, yeah. And the usual Hellenistic lineup of Thureophoroi and Thorakitai to play "Legions!" with if they want to.

**Juvenal** · 10-26-2007, 11:22

As blank pointed out traditional hoplites are much more flexible than phalangites.

I have never felt disadvantaged with KH. Admittedly their cavalry selection is rather modest, but you will find that you can recruit Thessalians after you have conquered the rest of Greece, and that is all I have ever felt I needed.

KH have a great range of infantry to choose from. You can go toe-to-toe with phalangites with your Iphikrates hoplites and attack the flanks with Peltasts, Traditional Hoplites, Theuropheroi and Thorakitai. You also have Ekdromoi Hoplites who are specifically designed to catch and beat enemy peltasts.

Slingers and Kretan archers provide plenty of missile support, and your infantry bodyguards are all rock-hard.

Because you are generally outclassed in cavalry, KH armies should keep strong flank and rear guards. I find it best to guard by missiles with hoplites and switch skirmish off so they don't run out of supporting range.

**BerkeleyBoi** · 10-26-2007, 14:37

How do you get reforms with KH? I don't remember seeing it listed in the official FAQ.

**Maeran** · 10-26-2007, 14:43

Unless there's something new, it is the Iphicratic hoplites. The reform has already happened before the start of the game, its just that they didn't really take off. In Greece itself anyway.

**Watchman** · 10-26-2007, 14:59

The Iphicrateans don't have pikes. Nah, it's the vanilla Marian reform thingy (a city in Italy growing large enough etc., a lot of factions get new units after that); the KH gets access to Hellenistic-style pike phalanx after that.

**Tellos Athenaios** · 10-26-2007, 15:05

Nope we're talking about the Koinon Phalangitai -- a representation of the fact that some city states began to train Sarrissa-style phalangitai thinking the only way to beat Maks would be with Mak style armies.

**matte89** · 10-26-2007, 15:23

For me Hoplite > Palax anytime... The palax is slow moveing, giveing you time to mass out stones from your slingers, your hoplite can easy flank them, just put ec milita in guard mode and let them come lose, then flank them whit another strong hoplite like the classic or your spartanbodyguards.

I find that palax has a extreamly hard time to cut trough the hoplite guard mode (shield wall) and by just that you can tier them pretty quikly then take your hoplite and charge trough the pallax, it will kill maby 10-15 of your men but once enough are trough you engage them in close combat and your spears and large shields cut trough thouse macedonians easy.

Palax is only a problem relly if they are in huge masses and you dont have enough hoplites to block and flank them, also if they have a strong cavalry support.

Just remmeber to use Block stand whit hoplites whenever you can.