Getting Started With Hayasdan?

[Landwalker]

Could anybody who's had some success as these fellows of the Caucasus shed some light on how one goes about getting off the ground? I've been trying to start up a Hayasdan campaign, but the Seleucids are looking like they're not going to make it easy. Never mind that never, in any of my other campaigns, ever have the AS attacked Armenia--they're definitely interested in it now. Right now my approach has been "Grab Mtskheta and Kotais, then have an AS army show up on my doorstep while I'm 24,000 in the hole and my entire army is over by the Caspian Sea," so I'm open to pretty much anything--fast attacks on certain provinces, immediate disbanding of my army and attempts to build up my lone starting province, throwing everything I have straight at the AS (okay, maybe not that, but anything else).

Cheers.

[Cyclops]

1. Expand with a skinny army. Disband the medium cav and the the southernmost Inf unit. Hit Kotais on turn 2 with 2 generals and your entire remaining force, then disband everything once its taken. I tend to enslave every time to focus recruitment to a single central location (Armavir), but thats desperate a measure.

2. Your generals kick arse to they should be front and centre (or in fact rear and centre, they may be slow but they rarely fail to break a charged rear).

3. Are you above the fort/diplomat ruse? I am, but I used it in the past and it delayed the inevitable conflict uintil I had 5 cities. You need to block the 3 southern fords/bridges that communicate with the AS. Keep your spy to the south to scan for foes, and make peace/trade/alliances all round.

4. Once you have 2 cities save like hell, build your mines, do a rapid build and send 2 generals 2 slings and 4 spears to take Mtswhatsitsname.

5. Once you have 3 cities with 3 level 1 mines, you will probably be at war with the AS but you still need to spread: I think west is best.

One fat general (King or heir), the hard working but brittle spears stiffened by some decent units (medium cavalry, and eventually Armenian medium inf) are needed to defeat the AS probes. You get the odd elite creeping into their stacks of dross soon enough. You have 3 river crossings to defend so intelligence is a must, and theres an argument for not building roads in your home provinces so you have a bit of reaction time.

Send 2 or 3 generals plus the "lite" army (2-4 slings, and a body of spears and skirmishers) west to chew through rebel stacks and garrisons. 5 cities is a fair base for a kingdom, you can start really upgrading the military. getting the size of this arnmy right is a punt, because you may be fighting off twin advances once the AS take Phraaspa.

I am afraid to spread South early because it just seems to bring the war closer to their quality MIC's without really cutting their resource base (or expanding yours)..

Anyway no guarantees with these boys, they are in a tight place and any campaign will involve a heck of a lot of mountain fighting. The hope is you build up a core of savagely effective generals and experienced spears and cav. I rely on generals as strike units in my Hai campaign like no other.

[Landwalker]

I'm not familiar with this "fort/diplomat" ruse... Do you build a fort, then "garrison" it with a non-unit like a diplomat or spy? Even if I weren't above it, being several thousand in debt tends to hamper building forts (unless I had done it on turn 1, which I suppose would have been possible).

I managed to add the Kabalaka to my "empire", bringing the total provinces up to 4 (with Armavir, Kotais, and Mtskheta), all of which have essentially zero development due to debt (Armavir has roads, which I managed to start on Turn 1 back when I had some money). AS sent a "probe force" up, but somehow I managed to scare it into neutrality long enough for my army to get back from the Caspian and more or less intimidate it into leaving the territory. My lone diplomat was gifting map information and military aid against another faction every turn (I'm now obligated to assist in battles against the Ptolemies, Macedonia, Carthage, Saba, and Saka Rauka)--I have no idea if that contributed to the expeditionary force eventually backing down, but I wasn't going to take any chances, and it's not like I could use money (which I don't even have) to pay them off...

Once I actually have a positive balance (I'm recovering my debt at the rate of about 1,200/turn... so I still have about 8 more turns before I'm even in the black), and can eventually start building those mines, I'll be a lot more comfortable. Until then, I have my army sitting on one bridge (the one between Armavir and Kotais), and my spy sitting on another (the one southeast of Armavir) in case the AS try to "explore" up that pass. The paranoia is ridiculous. Curse those silver bastards.

Cheers.

[tapanojum]

The paranoia is ridiculous. Curse those silver bastards.

Cheers.

That's one of the main reasons I like Hayastan, its so scary and tense =]

I never go in debt with Armenia, just conquer the immediate sourrounding cities and disband any units that are not essential until your making money rather than losing it.

I'm about to start a Hayastan campaign again because I had my unit sizes on large, and when I switched to Huge my campaign is still stuck on large. On VH/M AS backstabbed me as early as 271BC (I've never witnessed them do it so soon). After many years of defending and killing tons of their FM's, I managed to break through and capture some AS lands and some Pontic ones.

This time I am going to capture the immediate sorrouding cities and build my economy first. I want to get my Type I government up asap and see if I can get the Pan Caucasian reform quickly (This will involve in invading AS to get certain required lands).

[Cyclops]

I'm not familiar with this "fort/diplomat" ruse... Do you build a fort, then "garrison" it with a non-unit like a diplomat or spy? Even if I weren't above it, being several thousand in debt tends to hamper building forts (unless I had done it on turn 1, which I suppose would have been possible)....

...you're still in debt? Did your faction leader get the "coke and hookers" trait?

The fort/diplomat cheat is this: build a fort (usually at a choke point like a ford) and garrison it (with a remnant unit, eg one with say nine men left so upkeep is minimal), then position a diplomat in front of it, I think thats how it goes.

Because you're allied with mutual access there's no ZOC for them to stick in, but they seem to have a hard time getting past this as an obstacle. Of course I may be wrong, but thats my impression of the fort/diplomat exploit.

Your problem seems to start with getting into debt early. You should have about 800 mnai/turn upkeep with your starting army: try fighting with that.

However it sounds like you're getting over the hump despite the huige debt so well done, one or two more cities and I reckon things will go a bit easier.

[tapanojum]

I just started my Hayastan campaign again about an hour ago. Without disbanding the mediuim cavalry I attacked Kois and Mtveshtka, scoring heroic victories in both. My initial 5000 gold was spend on sanization, roads, and forgot what else..but I had 800 gold left over. We have more than enough troops to start with so I haven't build a single one, we can take all 3 cities without recruiting more.

I went into debt for 2 turns at 1000 gold. Once I captured my second city, I disbanded what remained of the medium cav and now I'm positive over 1000. I will next attack Ani-Kamah and stop my expansion there. Will disband any units that arent vital for my defense and start saving up to build mines and build up Armavir. Hopefully my mines will be up before the AS attack.

[BerkeleyBoi]

If you don't want to be cheap with forts and diplomat blocking, you can use horse-archers. The city north of your capital can recruit scythian horse archers after one or two levels of natives MIC. Four of those with a general or two is highly mobile and can wipe out Seleucid forces twice their size. Your infantry really stinks though, so assaulting stone walls is a big pain.

[Cyclops]

If you don't want to be cheap with forts and diplomat blocking, you can use horse-archers. The city north of your capital can recruit scythian horse archers after one or two levels of natives MIC. Four of those with a general or two is highly mobile and can wipe out Seleucid forces twice their size. Your infantry really stinks though, so assaulting stone walls is a big pain.

Yes the HA ruse is a bit less unpalatable. You can even post one at choke points and run away all battle for boring painless defense. Level 1 RMIC in Kotais or Mtskhthingy gets you juicy HA's and Skyth foot archers to boot.

My preference is to use the basic factional palate, so I'm fighting with a skinny army of 3 slings, 3 or 4 Armenian spears and as many generals as I can muster. Ah the joy of a catapharct charge on Huge.

I started as the Hai last night, and a decade or two in, and I've built up the FMIC to 4. Cata-HA's and Armenian non-imitation legionairres, yee haw! AS didn't attack until I had the 3 cities up, and they have probed with 3 and 5 unit stacks giving me cheap experience rather than worries. Now we're at peace again.

I have let myself have 4 of the Armenian sword inf and (suitably supported) they have chewed a hole through one or two stacks of Pontians: I find them very acceptable assault infantry but I'm keen to get Ankara for the nudist possibilities. I haven't the mnai to build a cataHA yet, so my generals all get silver chevrons for their 17th birthdays.

[artavazd]

With Armenia, my army composition is not composed of many horse archers like a Parthian, or other Steppe faction would be. I usualy have a line of infantry on set on guard mod, with some slingers and archers, and two to three units of cataphracts (generals unit, noble cataphracts, or armoured horse archers)

[tapanojum]

With Armenia, my army composition is not composed of many horse archers like a Parthian, or other Steppe faction would be. I usualy have a line of infantry on set on guard mod, with some slingers and archers, and two to three units of cataphracts (generals unit, noble cataphracts, or armoured horse archers)

As do I

[NightStar]

Ok you convinced me, I'm gonna start up a Hai campaign....