Out of character thread XVIII

[FactionHeir]

If you aren't in Italy yet and there is one, then there is another one likely for hire in Italy. So we could ferry 2 over?

Thanks for the information gibson, owe you one

[deguerra]

Elite_Ferreet, its not that I want to in any way challenge Dieter Bresch's Saxon ambitions, but where is did this idea of Franconians=Prussians come from? If its something to do with KotR before I came (ie not very long ago :D), then all is well, but just for the sake of being clear on the history of my home:

the Franconians, by that name, were created as one of the stem-duchies of the Kingdom of East Francia of the Carolingan Empire. The stem duchies were:

Franconia
Uppoer Lothringia
Lower Lothringia
(all three part of the "Frankish Homeland")

Friesland
Saxony
Thüringen (Thurignia in English I believe)

as well as the confederations of the Suebi (Swabia, also called Allemania) and the Bavarii (Bavaria).

So as you can see the Franconians historically (and I realise things are obviously much less complex in KotR) had nothing to do with the Saxons, and even less to do with the Prussians (who didnt become "German" until the 13th century).

Really, though, I'm just interested in your basis for your story, not at all because I want to challenge it (consider all above "for your information" only), but because I'm always curious as to where ideas come from.

cheers
deguerra

[flyd]

Deguerra, all of the Duchies in KOTR expanded past their initial lands. Our Franconia conquered both Saxony and Prussia. I think the idea that Franconians = Prussians came from the von Kastiliens. Blame them!

[Ramses II CP]

Err, don't blame me for Franconia.

Regarding the triple silver stacks, believe me I was shocked when one floated down from Arhus right behind the triple gold and general stack I already knew about (Which is why, in part, I was only too happy to pull a sally against them), but I think we just have to disregard the fact that we know who is doing it and consider it the fortunes of war. Given where that army stopped I think someone was trying to reinforce Arhus and prevent it from being captured, so perhaps someone was trying to give Iconium a garrison and the idiot AI pulled it out for an offensive instead.

It's also worth considering the limitations of IC information. Could Matthias actually see far enough to be certain that no Turkish army could reach Adana? I think after you get over the initial dismay of it, you'll have fun with the sally anyway. As a player I was annoyed at first about Hamburg's second siege, but despite my own mistakes and ultimate failure to lift the siege Fritz had his way in the end.

None of this is meant to compare the situation of Peter and Fritz to the situation of Matthias and Andreas because there are a lot of obvious differences, but ultimately our lot as players is to accept what our GMs feel is fair. I haven't looked at your situation closely, but if you have a cannon at Adana I'd be willing to bet you can damage that army badly enough in a sally this year that they stand no chance against another sally next year.

As far as Zim and Andreas, they'll have to take their chances. His sally is much more problematic, as are his chances in a siege, unfortunately.

[Cecil XIX]

I agree with OK. Though Becker's not in as bad a spot, I'm not going to try to fight that army in the field.

Tincow had the better idea by placing armies as far behind our lines as possible. As OK has demenostrated, placing armies where they can lay siege to our settlements the next turn makes any sort of planning a total crap-shoot.

Deguerra, the issue dates back to Ansehelm von Kastilien's (Stig's) reign. He spilt the Duchy of Franconia into two sections: Saxony, which was Frankfurt, Magdeburg and Hamburg; Prussia with Thorn, Stettin and Breslau. From what I read in the Franconia Thread, Ansehelm lured Dieter Bresch out of Outremer with promises of command of the Saxony portion as well as his own army. Then Ansehelm seemed to back out of his deal, causing no small amount of resentment from Dieter. I can't quite remember how that worked out, you can read about in the read. It's one of the better intra-house disputes that I know of.

'Course, I might be missing a detail or two. gibsonsg, Elite_Ferret, Privateerkev or Dutch_guy could tell you more, as they were Franconians at the time.

[Zim]

Drat, finally I see the end of one ongoing controversy and I get involved in another.

I'm not sure how much weight my opinion holds since I'm the one whose character is in jeapordy, but I agree with OK. There was already a Turkish super army that couldn't decide whether to siege Damascus, and some 3 full stack Byzantine armies within a turn or so of the FOW in Outremer. Putting another super army so close to Adana has basically made our planning meaningless. A nasty surprise once in a while isn't such a terrible thing, but I think this may have gone a bit far.

I thought talk was mentioned a while before of putting the extra AI armies back behind the front lines rather than right up front. Perhaps I am remembering incorrectly?

Anyway, if Andreas does die over this (they always die when I start to get attached to them ), I think I'll forgo another recruitable general, and wait in line for a FM.

[OverKnight]

I don't mind that such armies are created, what I do mind is that they were created at the end of 1346, after all of our moves. This gave the armies a turn of movement before we were even aware of their existence (as Cecil pointed out). When the uber stacks were created in the Cataclysm I believe they were created at the beginning of the HRE turn, we were informed of their creation in the Cataclysm thread and we had time to react to their placement and make plans, something which did not happen this time.

I would happily hold my own against the besiegers of Adana, but if Antioch and Andreas are to be saved, I have to break the siege this turn to move troops over there before the city is most likely assaulted next turn.

My plans for last turn would have been much different if I knew that an army was in range of both Adana and Antioch. I make my decisions by what I see in the save. The save was altered with no warning, so now Antioch and Andreas are in a very bad situation.

[Zim]

In case anyone is wondering, Andreas' mighty garrison force consists of his bodyguard, two units of religious fanatics, two units of militia spearmen, and 1unit of militia crossbowmen.

His opponent has a full stack, thankfully not too strong infantrywise (Although the infantry I saw was high quality, Varangian guard and the like).

Given their lack of infantry, I wouldn't need too many more men to fight them off in an assault (although they'd have to be professional). However, with two melee milita and religious fanatics, prospects are grim.

Anyway, I'll go along with the powers that be whatever their decision. If Andreas dies from it, then next time I'll be more careful. Heck, the AI does crazy things, so they might wander off next turn or something. Usually with such disparity between forces, the AI assaults quickly, but you never know.

[flyd]

This seems like a reasonable complaint. If armies are generated, I would like to see it done next to enemy castles, where troops would normally be manufactured. This keeps the tactical situation realistic, at least.

[Ferret]

Elite_Ferreet, its not that I want to in any way challenge Dieter Bresch's Saxon ambitions, but where is did this idea of Franconians=Prussians come from? If its something to do with KotR before I came (ie not very long ago :D), then all is well, but just for the sake of being clear on the history of my home:

the Franconians, by that name, were created as one of the stem-duchies of the Kingdom of East Francia of the Carolingan Empire. The stem duchies were:

Franconia
Uppoer Lothringia
Lower Lothringia
(all three part of the "Frankish Homeland")

Friesland
Saxony
Thüringen (Thurignia in English I believe)

as well as the confederations of the Suebi (Swabia, also called Allemania) and the Bavarii (Bavaria).

So as you can see the Franconians historically (and I realise things are obviously much less complex in KotR) had nothing to do with the Saxons, and even less to do with the Prussians (who didnt become "German" until the 13th century).

Really, though, I'm just interested in your basis for your story, not at all because I want to challenge it (consider all above "for your information" only), but because I'm always curious as to where ideas come from.

cheers
deguerra

FlyDude has the right idea, Ansehelm divided Franconia into Saxony and Prussia, with Dieter supposedly holding Saxony (Hamburg, Magdeburg, Frankfurt etc) and Ansehelm commanding Prussia (Thorn, Breslau, Stettin?, Krakow etc).

Nowadays we only control those Saxon provinces and Dieter has always loved Saxony for some strange reason

Remember that this isn't a historically accurate game though