Out of character thread XIX

[Ignoramus]

To the inspiring Duke of Austria, Arnold Salian, greetings.

Mein lord,

We are an illustrious family, but sad to say, we have no connections with the Imperial family, and thus our prominence is but at best a shadow of what it is.

However, I have some serious news to bear to you.

As Duke of Austria, you have the ability to raise an Austrian to the Imperial throne itself!

You may think I am mad. Indeed, at first, even mein father thought I was mad. But nein, if things fall out properly, the Imperial Diet of 1380 will be headed by one of Austrian lineage.

As it stands, Kaiser Elberhard has no sons. At such a time as we are now facing, it is madness to think of lifting a woman to throne(never mind the fact that such an act is not permitted in the Imperial succession). Because of this, the Kaiser has appointed Peter von Kastilien, a Lutheran, a former rebel, and what's worse, a Franconian, as his heir.

However, the ageing Kaiser has taken mein suit of his eldest daughter, Eue, kindly. He has indicated that should I prove myself worthy, he will likely bestow her hand to me in marriage. As her dowry, Princess Eue would bring the Netherlands into Austria' fold.

The result of this marriage, however, has implications far greater than you can imagine. Should Peter von Kastilien perish before the Kaiser, he would be free to transfer the succession to myself, and thus Austria would have her first Kaiser.

As Chancellor, you can accomplish this feat.

Your new subject,
Maximillian von Hapsburg.

That's the first message I sent AussieGiant. My plot was to get Hapsburg married to Eue and then get Arnold to kill off Peter before Elberhard died, thus making Hapsburg Prinz. When Elberhard died, I would become Kaiser, and thus automatically assume the Chancellorship after Arnold had finished his term. I was then going to transfer the Imperial capital to Vienna, assign all Imperial lands to Austria, and attempt to reduce the other Duchies to vassalage. A shame that didn't happen...

[OverKnight]

Whoa, I was just guessing because of the name and your playing history, but that's ambitious even for you.

[Ignoramus]

I know, but rebels get all the fun. Sigismund der Stolze was very enjoyable to play, in fact he's basically the only character to be universally admired. That's mainly because he was so loyal and unassuming that he wasn't a threat to anyone. Assassination was a fitting(but infuriating) end for him.

Is there any non-MTW2 role I could have?

[AussieGiant]

That's the first message I sent AussieGiant. My plot was to get Hapsburg married to Eue and then get Arnold to kill off Peter before Elberhard died, thus making Hapsburg Prinz. When Elberhard died, I would become Kaiser, and thus automatically assume the Chancellorship after Arnold had finished his term. I was then going to transfer the Imperial capital to Vienna, assign all Imperial lands to Austria, and attempt to reduce the other Duchies to vassalage. A shame that didn't happen...

As you can see gentlemen it was a hell of a start to his relationship to Arnold.

Things were discussed from then on IC and Arnold was starting to go down a path of no return on the matter...

...at some point I pulled out of the Dark Emperor spiral and said to Igno;

"Listen you crazy nutter, before I go and turn this whole thing on it's head, why don't you go get yourself hitch to Eue...then we'll talk further."

I then sat in real life looking at the map for a long long time.......the thing was doable as chancellor given Igno succeeded in getting married.

I then thought in horror what would happen if he somehow did get married to her and then came back and said; "ok lets get this thing started."

[GeneralHankerchief]

Oh God... imagine the possibilities if Elberhard had stayed alive for one more turn.

[Ferret]

ha! I'm only 15! But the reason I came on was to say my internet is going on and off like a yo yo at the moment so I'm going on reserve duty unfortunately and may not be able to post as much as I should. As for Franconia uhhhh Dieter is suffering from the plague so Fritz can be Steward for now.

[AussieGiant]

OK chaps.

Big night. This turn will end and we'll get to the offensive season of the next turn tonight.

I get the impression the first half of 1354 could be interesting.

Ok then 1352 is complete. It was sieging season it seems.

[FactionHeir]

Out of curiosity, were you able to retreat from the French attack at all?

[FactionHeir]

Hmm I just loaded the old save and ending turn allowed both Salza and the SHA to retreat from battle.

I would like to request that this be done instead of autoresolve as Warluster was not able to fight and it was not a vital battle that he would have had to fight.

As the new save is not yet modified, that should not pose a problem I believe.

[Cecil XIX]

That's the first message I sent AussieGiant. My plot was to get Hapsburg married to Eue and then get Arnold to kill off Peter before Elberhard died, thus making Hapsburg Prinz. When Elberhard died, I would become Kaiser, and thus automatically assume the Chancellorship after Arnold had finished his term. I was then going to transfer the Imperial capital to Vienna, assign all Imperial lands to Austria, and attempt to reduce the other Duchies to vassalage. A shame that didn't happen...

Sorry to see you go, Ignoramus. It's too bad that plan wasn't able to get going, it would have made for a great set-up to a civil war.

[Northnovas]

FH I can see your point so what is the official save right now? The one by AG in the orders thread?

[Zim]

FH I can see your point so what is the official save right now? The one by AG in the orders thread?

I'd wait on AussieGiant's word before taking either save. Both he and Econ21 ruled in on the battle having to be autoresolved because the orders were given and Warluster was unable to fight the battle (and didn't put himself on reserve duty, in which case he'd not be put in such a situation). THere may have been a mistake made in that the Swabians (my own House) weren't given a chance to change their orders once apprised of the situation. If so I'm sure they'll address it.

I mean, it's tough enough being Chancellor, doing all that work, all the while knowing you'll be blamed for any mistake you make in-game in the IC threads. Compounding that by having players unilaterally making changes to the saves without permission just makes it worse.

[AussieGiant]

FH, at no time did anyone ask for a retreat at any point in this whole story even though I can only assume there was some considerable time spent looking at the save and assessing the options available.

Not one word was said since Wednesday afternoon and into that space Econ had spelled out explicitly the next step which was an auto-calc and still there was no word of requesting a retreat.

I end the turn, spend 90 minutes getting the thing written up, then you request a re-do.

I then re-do the turn because I see your point to a certain degree, of course luck would have it my character dies.

You then give me your save and say take that one instead.

At this point I have to say that the situation stands as is. The report is valid and the save posted there is the one we go on with.

It's not a major problem but just another set back.

-Edit-

The 24 hours starts now and I'll ask everyone to follow the rules in this regard because they are basically for everyone's protection.

If you take the save you fight...period, nothing more. Otherwise place your suggestions in the orders thread. OK for example uses a system that means there is little room for error when he needs something a little more complex...use that if you would like.

[FactionHeir]

No one mentioned the retreat option because Warluster cannot access the game and on my end when I first tried it, it didn't even come to any battle, therefore I couldn't have known that there was a retreat option.

However, as with any good judgement, when you see a battle screen pop up and you know the player cannot fight the battle and will most likely lose if autoresolved, you truly ought to press retreat if that is an option and previous chancellors have always done so without exception from my own knowledge.

Not blaming you, but if you had uplaoded the save at the pre battle screen and I had seen the retreat option earlier, I would definitely have spelt that out, but in some ways it should have been the obvious choice for you to make.

On the other hand, econ said autoresolve it because he also is unlikely to have known of a retreat option and if he did, he would have mentioned it.
So it really does kind of boil down to people not being able to actually see their options all the time. Using an analogy, if you ask someone if they want a banana or a car, how likely is it that this person or anyone else will answer "give me a watch"?

From my point of view, we already have prevented Warluster from fighting or having a proxy. There is little reason to also force a defeat and the pague upon him for an autoresolve that should never have happened in the first place.
Considering that no one has touched the save since, I also do not see any reason not to use the save I uploaded if you do not want Arnold to die (which is the other option).

Similarly, you would not have to spend ages on a new write up as there are no largely different events at all and I have sent you all necessary screenshots.

For the moment I would say that the save should be frozen until econ makes a judgement on this matter, because you already managed to infect the SHA without anyone with the authority asking for it and it was ruled in your favor already. I don't see why Swabia should take a hit a second time due to your doings without appeal.

[econ21]

Let's not make a drama out of a crisis. The Chancellor ended the turn and posted a report - we should not try to turn back time.

It is ok to retreat before battle to avoid an autoresolve, but it did not happen this time and so let's live with the consequences.

Not every move we make is going to be perfect - Elberhard would still be Kaiser if it were. We do our best but sometimes we slip up.

Reloading after a mistake is fine for individual's own private games, but I don't think it is what we want to start doing in a cooperative PBM like this.

[AussieGiant]

FH, Econ

FH, I will take your save and readjust the report to reflect the altered universe.

This is the final ripple effect of what I regard as series of events that have occurred from trying to have a whole Duchy plus multiple avatar's micro managed by you on behalf of Warluster for the most part. This is the final effect of this issue in my mind.

You're point has weight but it is not an overwhelmingly strong argument given the step by step issues we've had to "Manage" over the last two or three turns.

I've always tried to accommodate your wishes from the very beginning and I've given far more access to the save than anyone else because of the style of play you have which is incredibly detailed and shows an understanding of the game that is truly amazing.

You're a 1%er player FH, that means your in the top 1% in my mind, but you also play for that extra 1% on any and every move. You can't expect others to be even close.

I'm trying to be fair and stay conscious of how things can be perceived from another other sides of the coin.

You talk about "your" version of the save, and when things happened to "you" when "you" did it...I think the point needs to be made...I'm not interested in "your" version of events unless "you're" the Chancellor.

So if you want to make comments about my judgment, then l'd ask you to assess yours, from my point of view.

If you want to run the show, then get elected, otherwise it's not "your" version I think, I need, to use.

So that's the end of it...in more ways than one.

-Edit-

And just a open comment to all...please, pretty please don't bring up any altered events that put you in a worse position than the original save. If you do I might just go insane. And when I re-read the Chancellor's powers...then Igno comes to mind, plus I could defend nearly everything I do with an appropriate piece of legislation. :-)

And the 24 hours started yesterday...

Report is change and the new save is 1354-2 for anyone who wants it.