Looking for a good fantasy strategy game

[pevergreen]

Off the top of my head, I cant actually think of any games that are fantasy like that.

It seems as though you want a Fantasy TW or EU?

If you want an in depth TBS with not advanced battles, I would say Master of Orion 2. Very Cheap, very in depth. Too in depth for me.


Has very random map generator, good AI, and the entire game is "sandbox" mode.

[Makanyane]

It seems as though you want a Fantasy TW or EU?

*wanders off topic for forum*

*coughs quietly in direction of sig.*

Disclaimer; other fantasy mods for TW are of course available as well.....

[Crandaeolon]

Age of Wonders 2: Shadow Magic mostly fits those criteria, though the empire building aspect is probably a little light for a Civ4 player.

Sacrifice is indeed a great game, but probably not what you're looking for - it belongs to a different genre.

Dominions 3 is my personal favourite fantasy strategy game, but I think you already know about that. It's a little light on empire building, but the enormous depth of the magic system and tremendous number of different troop types more than makes up for the lack of city-building at least in my book. Recent patches and upgrades have added a lot of new stuff too.

Besides, any game that lets you have flying undead monkey ninja sorcerers must be good by definition.

[econ21]

Heroes of Might and Magic III might be worth looking at. It's turn-based fantasy with a pretty solid AI.

Rather like Total War, it has a strategic level in which you build, recruit and move your armies then it has tactical battles when armies meet. The strategic maps are fun with lots of "goodies" to gather (items, power ups etc) and explore. A big part of it is levelling up your generals, allowing interesting specialisms in combat and magic. Unlike TW, the tactical battles are rather simple affairs - 7 stats max per side (although a unit may have 1000s of "men" stacked in it) and a pretty abstract Chess-like hexagonal map. A very nice feature is that the battles are brisk, so that small skirmishes are over in seconds. Even more epic battles can be emotionally gruelling but over in a five minutes or so. Overall, it's got the classic TBS "just one more turn" feel but without bogging down late game as most traditional 4X games do. (You can never have more than 8 field armies, IIRC, and typically have only a few cities to manage.)

The strategic AI is pretty basic but strikingly effective. The AI tends to designate a main stack and build that up, using it ruthlessly to crush you. It avoids putting its stacks within reach of any stacks of yours that could defeat it. Those two simple principles translate into a rather effective AI - RTW/M2TW could be so much improved if they followed them. The difficulty levels include some pretty big AI resource advantages, so you can be challenged.

The battlefield AI does a reasonable job given the complexity of the battles (many units have special attacks, generals can use magic to great effect etc). I would rank HommIII alongside Civ as having very good AI. By clever sequencing of attacks, judicious use of magic and smart targetting, you can win against the odds, but probably not as easily as in TW and you do feel you've earned it.

Homm is based around strategic maps - called scenarios - some of which may be linked into campaigns. However, the scenarios are often big enough and open enough that you don't need to worry about the campaigns. There are many user created maps - my favorite is "Middle Earth (allies)" which is a brilliant representation of the War of the Ring. It has an editor - it may have a random map generator, but if so, I would not bother with it. A well constructed map is a thing to be savoured.

Nowadays you can get Homm III Complete for a very good price, as it is an old game (2D although I find the graphics nice and the music very good). It comes with two useful expansions included.

Don't be seduced by the flashier graphics of HommIV and HommV - they are but shadows of Homm3. The AI is much weaker (HommIV is broken) and they lose the fast pace of the predecessor and cease to be fun.

[drone]

Master of Magic, if you don't mind running 640x480. Open campaign, random maps, good AI, Civ-like engine, what more could you ask for? You do have a Win98 machine, right?

[Meneldil]

Don't be seduced by the flashier graphics of HommIV and HommV - they are but shadows of Homm3. The AI is much weaker (HommIV is broken) and they lose the fast pace of the predecessor and cease to be fun.

I find HommV to be at least as much entertaining as HoMMIII used to be, if no more (though yeah, the AI is weak, so are the skirmish maps)

[econ21]

I find HommV to be at least as much entertaining as HoMMIII used to be, if no more (though yeah, the AI is weak, so are the skirmish maps)

Maybe - I got bored quickly. It was the slow pace that got me. With Homm3, you can rip through even a very large map in a (very long) evening. The 3D graphics or something of both HommIV and HommV seem to slow things down to a crawl. I don't think I ever finished a map either solo or with my son. (Yes, I know there are some fast combat options, but even with those, it seems slower.)

I actually like a lot of the innovations in HommIV - specifically, having your general fight, the more balanced magic, the character development system, the nice writing of the campaigns etc. It was getting close to a good strategy game/RPG hybrid (strange no one has really cracked that market). I could have put up with the slow pace for that. Shame the AI was brain dead on the strategic map.

HommV has better strategic AI than HommIV but also largely lacked most of its attractive innovations. The cut scenes and voices etc were excruciatingly bad, losing a lot of immersion from that.

[FactionHeir]

Ahhhh someone brought up HoMM. A game where I have played each and every one in the quintilogy (more if you count the extra campaign releases etc).

My personal favorite is 4, most people out there like 3. The main criticism people had with 4 is the somewhat silly AI that was for a change not cheating as it was in 3 and 5. A cheating AI makes a lot of a difference afterall. I found it was more realistic really, with the AI running around a bunch of trees to evade your pursuing strong force forevermore if required and ambushing you out of nowhere, only when it came to AI vs AI battles, it would fare horribly against creeps, as you could tell from the hero gravestones littered around those.

My main criticism of 5 is that the AI cheats too much. It fights creeps and other AI armies in autocalc with absolutely no losses at all. If it fights creeps, those join their army 90% of the time, and if they do "fight", the AI loses nothing and gains full experience. Then of course the AI on higher difficulty levels gets more troops a week as well, which is the most annoying "innovation" that was not mentioned in 5.

If you want to have a good game of HoMM, play 4. 1 and 2 are rusty in terms of graphics, but quite immersive as well, with 1 and 2 having extensive storylines that were well written. Indeed with 2, you had multiple campaign paths too.

[Martok]

It seems as though you want a Fantasy TW or EU?

Essentially, yes. Not that the strategic side has to be as in-depth as either of those two series -- I just want enough to chew on, so to speak.

If you want an in depth TBS with not advanced battles, I would say Master of Orion 2. Very Cheap, very in depth. Too in depth for me.


Has very random map generator, good AI, and the entire game is "sandbox" mode.

I tried MOO2, but for some reason I just couldn't get into it very much. That's okay, however, as I've still got some decent space strategy titles to play (most notably, BOTF and Galactic Civilizations 2).

In any case, though, I was referring specfically to the fantasy sub-genre. I wanted to be able to take over the world using magic and sending my dwarves/elves/dragons into battle.


@Makanyane & Aradan: I don't have RTW or Civ4, so I probably won't have a chance to check out those mods any time soon. I appreciate the referrals, though.


So it looks like my best bet -- for now, at least -- would be AoW:SM, HOMM III, or Dominions 3. (Or Master of Magic, but as Kek pointed out, that's a pretty old game and I would probably have a hard time finding it.) Many thanks, all.

[Ciaran]

As old (or even older, I´m not sure) as Master of Magic (for which, perchance, there is a modding kit available somewhere - don´t ask me for the link, I don´t remember, but there is, I have it), you could also try Lord of Magic.

But anything more recently, I´m afraid there isn´t much.

[Kekvit Irae]

As Ciaran pointed out, Lords of Magic is pretty good. Just be sure to get the Special Edition, though. You'll love the extra story campaigns.

[TinCow]

I also give a big thumbs up to HOMM3. I even did an article on the previous game, HOMM2, in Issue 4 of the Gahzette. My wife and I still play HOMM3 on our laptops when we're out of town. It's a very good strategic game with an entirely decent AI. I highly recommend the 'Complete' version, which includes both expansion packs. The expansion campaigns in particular can be very fun an challenging.

For any HOMM3 vets, there is a very large mod out called "In The Wake of Gods." Most of the HOMM communities actually refer to it as HOMM3.5, because it makes so many changes that it's almost an entirely new game. It's good fun for anyone who has played the vanilla version and want more. It is very complex and bloated with features, though, so I do not recommend it for someone new to the game.

[King Kurt]

Hi Martok
Not strictly fantasy, but have you tried Sid Meyer's Alpha Centurai. It is a SF Civilisation style game and an old favourite of mine. No magic but lots of discovery and mystery, teching up, empire building and the factions are all so different. Also there is a really good diplomacy side to the game. It runs on old machines and is now dirt cheap. Oh - and it looks beautiful with loads of screens when something has been achieved.
So if your definition of fantasy is not historic then give it a go.

[frogbeastegg]

No one's mentioned the Disciples series. Is that because they aren't very good, because no one here has played them, or because they've been forgotten? It's a series that I wonder about trying out now and then. Downloading but not installing the demo for Disciples II is as far as I've got.

[Martok]

Hi Martok
Not strictly fantasy, but have you tried Sid Meyer's Alpha Centurai. It is a SF Civilisation style game and an old favourite of mine. No magic but lots of discovery and mystery, teching up, empire building and the factions are all so different. Also there is a really good diplomacy side to the game. It runs on old machines and is now dirt cheap. Oh - and it looks beautiful with loads of screens when something has been achieved.
So if your definition of fantasy is not historic then give it a go.

I've heard nothing but good things about the game, but for some reason I myself couldn't get into it. I actually once had AC a long time ago (including the Alien Crossfire expansion), but I just didn't find it to be that enjoyable.

I've since realized -- after having tried not just Alpha Centauri, but the first 2 Civ titles as well -- that I simply don't care for Sid Meier's games. I know I *should* like them, since I'm a fan of empire-building strategy titles overall, but I don't. For whatever reason, they just don't appeal to me.

No one's mentioned the Disciples series. Is that because they aren't very good, because no one here has played them, or because they've been forgotten? It's a series that I wonder about trying out now and then. Downloading but not installing the demo for Disciples II is as far as I've got.

I've played Disciples II. Although it wasn't for me, it's a very decent game overall.

Visually speaking, it's absolutely beautiful -- you can tell the game was really a labor of love for the artists that worked on it. DII's atmosphere is pretty good as well. The territory around your city will eventually come to reflect the faction you're playing, which is a nice touch (i.e., the human Empire gets lush forests/grassland, the demonic Legions of the Damned get Mordor-type terrain, etc.). The enemy AI isn't a genius, but it's not bad either. The random encounters -- which aren't really random per se, but are deliberately interspersed throughout the map at various locations -- are pretty balanced in terms of providing an appropriate challenge to your parties' current level(s). Perhaps best of all (at least for me) was that the game was fairly easy to learn how to play, yet still managed to avoid sacrificing much in the way of depth.


There were a few big turn-offs for me, however. My first two objections run more to personal tastes, though, so they may not bother you overly much:

1.) Battles. Save for deciding which units attack who, there's no maneuvering or tactics of any kind. Your people just stand there and face off against the enemy, wielding whatever attacks/abilities they possess. (If I want to play D&D-style battles, then I'll go actually play D&D, thank you very much! ) Combat is pretty to look at, but it just feels a bit too static for me.

2.) Scale. Or more specifically, the lack thereof. Maybe it's because I've been spoiled by games like GalCiv 2 and the TW series, but Disciples II just doesn't feel epic enough for my tastes -- particularly given the game has a pretty thorough & epic backstory. Both the maps and the armies/parties generally feel like they're too small for the game, which really detracts from the (otherwise quite excellent) atmosphere.

3.) No "sandbox" mode. This is the big one for me, as it pretty much kills the game's replayability. Each of the 4 factions has it's own mission-based campaign (ala Command & Conquer) along with some stand-alone scenario maps (some of which require that specific quests be fulfilled), but that's it. There is no random-map generator where you can just go out and conquer the world in any way you see fit.


In the end, I would probably rate Disciples a 7.5 out of 10. What the game does, it does pretty well, and it's gorgeous to boot. Ultimately, however, I couldn't get past the fact that it lacked dynamic battles, grand scale, and a sandbox mode.