Imperial Diet

[Kagemusha]

Fifth elector mutters to himself as Von Kassels messenger leaves:

"Good luck to you also Von Kassel. Our hope lies in our cavalry."

[Ignoramus]

The same messenger rushes into the Diet. He wears a joyous expression.

Victory! Count Sigismund and von Kassel have trampled the Milanese militia. All but 17 of the Milanese were either dead or taken prisoner by our forces. Count Sigismund, in an act of generosity and respect, released the 272 prisoners we took on the field. It was a hard fought battle, and looked doubtful until von Kassel and his knights arrived.

Glory to the Reich!

[Kagemusha]

" Praise the Lord! But i will have to warn this diet.One day we will face enemy force strong enough, that it will teach us a lesson,if we replace strategy with reckless bravery.Now if you will excuse me i will retire to my quarters."

The Elector greets the diet and walks away from the room with an expression on his face that shows he is thinking something intensively.

[econ21]

Prinz Henry: Chivalrous Count Sigismund has performed valiantly in driving back the aggressors from Bern; I salute him!

I am within marching distance of Bern and humbly petition my father that I be sent to the front. I propose that my archers and knights from Staufen join with the spearmen from Innsbruck to march straight on the settlement of Milan itself. Milan is the not only our foe's capital, but it also divides our lands, leaving our Emperor cut off from most of his territory. Milan is, however, relatively lightly guarded. Our response to this unprovoked aggression from the Milanese must be swift, overwhelming and uncompromising.

Having recently acquired a fine guard dog in my retinue, I must disagree with Commander Mandorf, however. To call the Milanese dogs is a vile slur on canines everywhere.

[AussieGiant]

Count's Sigismund and Otto have yet again proved their skill and bravery for the Reich!! This news is excellent, well done both of you!!

I must agree with His Highness Prinz Henry's proposal.

We must strike back quickly against the Milanese!! Their capital is a perfect choice, it will not only cripple them, but bring us one step closer to reuniting our Italian holdings with those in central Europe.

Attack!!!

[Ituralde]

Conrad von Schüsselen has again not been seen during the troubling events of the recent days, but rumour had it that his screams of outrage coul be heard in the entire wing occupied the Austrian delegation when he heard of the Milanese attack.
Somewhat composed he stands again in front of the Diet.

I have to agree with all of you that this is an outrage! First they shake off our rule and now those treacherous money-lovers dare to attack us in Bern castle. Were it not for the courageous defense of Count Sigismund and von Kassels support it would have been a grim hour for the Reich! Let's seize this opportunity now to put an end to the Milanese scum! Rip out their heart I say, and finish them off for good. Were I younger I would lead the assault on the walls myself to personally cut the throats of every traitor I can find!!

Conrad has spoken himself into a fury, his hair in disarray and his stick flailing wildly about. His voice has grown harsher by the minute and now finally the withheld coughing comes to the fore and shakes his body violently. His right hand already rises to his mouth a velvet red handkerchief at the ready. But he no longer has control over his actions and slowly folds, while fine specks of blood appear at the corner of his mouth. With a final cough he collapses on the Diet floor.
Immediatelly secretaries and servants from the House of Austria rush forward to carry Conrad out of the Diet. All that is left is a sprinkle of blood on the floor and a velvet red handkerchief lying beside it, the crest of the House of Franconia set in one corner.

[Ituralde]

Not long after the events around Conrad von Schüsselen, Duke Leopold storms into the Diet.

Mein Kaiser, Dukes, fellow Electors!

I came from Prague as soon as I heard of the attack on Bern. Praise be to the gods that our valiant heroes succeeded in driving the Milanese back. Every House should be proud to have such capable men within their ranks.

I'd like to apologize for my few visits in the past, but Bohemia has kept me occupied. You would not beleive what you find in those lands. Pagans and Heretics everywhere, it seems like every idea, however crazy, falls on well prepared soil there, maybe be we should send some of our Priests to pray there too.
I hope Conrad von Schüsselen was able to speak on my behalf, although I fear his condition has taken a turn for the worse. He may just recover, but he will no longer be able to perform his functions as Second Elector of Austria.
I hope we can find him a nice little household somewhere around Florence. He's always dreamed of ending his life in a quet little country home overlooking the rolling hills of Tuscany and I think he deserves nothing less.

Alas, we have more important matters to turn our attention to. I would gladly take my host right to the gates of Milan itself and show those Milanes what happens to traitors, but as Fredericus von Hamburg has rightfully mentioned,is the fact that the Hungarians are casting envious glances across the Danube. In this time of trouble it is important that we appear strong to our neighbours lest they take an example on Milans actions. If that attack really met approval from Pope Gregory, the ever pious King of Hungary would surely see the time to improve his standings with the Pope if he managed to sack Vienna.
So while I will be busy showing no possible weakness for our enemies to strike at, I wish the generals leading their assault on Milan the best of luck and god's praise that the head of the venomous snake poisoning our lands will be swiftly cut off!

[AussieGiant]

In unison the loud and deep voices of the Austrian benches can be heard bellowing their agreement.

The 4th Elector of Austria leads a loud banging of the tables from the Austrian delegations benches...the din slowly subsides after some minutes.

[OverKnight]

Otto von Kassel, returning from the front, walks into the Diet and sits. He listens to the debate for a while and then rises to speak:

My Lords, I am heartened by this talk of striking at our new enemies the Milanese. Sigismund has brought their surprise attack to nought, and we now hold the initiative. We can strike where we wish!

Many have called for an attack on the city of Milan. It would be a glorious accomplishment to bring this city back into the domain of the Reich, yet we have failed to consider the consequences of a march into Milanese territory.

I almost certain that the Pope would frown on two Catholic nations fighting each other. I would not be surprised if he has already sent a messenger to Milan ordering them, under pain of Interdiction, to cease their actions against us. If we attack into Milanese territory, I would be even less surprised if the Pope gave us the same warning. Unless our strike against the city of Milan is incredibly swift, we will have to choose between excommunication or lifting the siege on the city. Our standing with Rome is not high enough where we can ignore Papal requests without dire consequences.

Does this Diet wish to pursue this war with Milan at any cost? Are we willing to suffer excommunication? If we are, we will be a pariah in Europe. Those Hungarians gazing across the Danube will see it as God's will if they march on Vienna. The Venetians, never trustworthy to begin with, will receive a request from the Pope to cancel their alliance with us, as we have received the same request concerning Sicily. What will stop them from turning on us then? The same will happen with the Poles as well.

I was surprised to see the Prinz himself call for an immediate assault on the city of Milan, this from the wise man who proposed edict 1.1. It has not accomplished its task yet, Mein Prinz. We are not high enough in the Papacy's favor to move unchecked against our neighbors, even if they attacked us. The Prinz made several convincing arguments as to how we were to use the Papacy to our advantage, are we throwing that strategy away now?

Let no one doubt I wish to crush the Milanese! But first we must isolate them from Rome and the rest of Europe. Let us, in the beginning, fight a defensive war. Let them send armies into our territories to be slaughtered. We have terrain and shorter supply lines on our side. Let them waste their strength on attacks, while their aggressive actions anger the Pope. We should continue the work of edict 1.1 at this time, to improve our standing while worsening Milan's.

Once they have fallen out of favor with the Pope, or better yet been excommunicated, we can move with a free hand against them. Then we will assault and sack their cities! Then we shall drive them into the sea! The same goals we all seek, without the mess of excommunication.

If, however, the Diet still seeks an immediate attack on the city of Milan, we should bear in mind the likely consequences of our actions and start making plans to deal with them.

My lords.

Otto sits.

[AussieGiant]

My Lords,

Count Otto's comments are not without serious merit.

Given the latest information our Kaiser has just outlined in his Chancellor report there is something I believe should be considered.

Sicily is currently excommunicated. Keeping that in mind, if we fight a defensive war against the Milanese we maybe able to provoke the Pope into excommunicating them also. With both of these nations out of the Pope's favour we would be ideally able to exploit this to our own gain without fear of being excommunicated our selves.

I think we can all agree that our current standing with the Pope is not ideal. In fact I think he is looking at taking every opportunity to discriminate against us. Lets not fall into his trap.

The 4th Elector takes a seat

[GeneralHankerchief]

Kaiser Heinrich:

I believe it is too early to determine Pope Gregory's opinion on this conflict. If the Pope had given an order to the Milanese instructing they lift the siege, then they would have done so. Otherwise Sigismund would not have needed to drive them away himself.

I am still anticipating an order from the Pope instructing me to cease and decist with the hostilities (OOC: Most likely I'll get this in 1120, if at all). Whether that order comes or not will tell us much about how active of an interest he is taking in this conflict.

[GeneralHankerchief]

-edit- Report is up.

Kaiser Heinrich:

It is now 1120, and the corresponding session of the Diet has now begun.

In a moment I shall inform you all of our current situation with an official report. In the meantime, I suggest that you review the latest maps yourselves:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1120.zip

Begin the session! *bangs gavel*

[GeneralHankerchief]

Kaiser Heinrich:

I may as well start this off myself:

Edict 3.1: The Chancellor shall seek to have Milan cease to exist by the conclusion of his term.

Edict 3.2: The Chancellor is keep his alliance with Sicily, thus disobeying the Papal Order.

Edict 3.3: This edict authorizes (not instructs) the Chancellor to declare war on Hungary.

[OverKnight]

Mein Kaiser, mein Prinz and my fellow electors, first let me thank the Kaiser for his service as Chancellor! He, despite many obstacles, has led the Reich to a rebirth of glory and conquest!

I feel I must alert the Diet to some events that might effect our deliberations:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It seems the Pope is returning to Rome from whatever business he had in Genoa. It is the second time he has violated our territory. Yet, I find this second report more disturbing:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

What in God's name are those Venetian dogs doing there!? What do they hope to accomplish? It is a small force, but it is inside our territory and close to Vienna! I am glad the Kaiser had the foresight to recruit and move troops into the city. I hope such an act of strength will encourage those wayward schwein to withdraw back into their own lands!


On the issue of possible Papal condemnation of our war with Milan, I believe the Pope would only order us to cease hostilities if we move into Milanese territory. That is why I advocated for a temporary defensive strategy until they are cast out of the Church themselves. The Venetian incursion into Austria supports this policy. If we move into Milanese lands, we will be less able to defend against Venetian treachery, the "dire reason" Conrad von Schusslen spoke of in edict 2.4.

I look forward to the candidates for Chancellor presenting their manifestoes, particularly their plans for the war with Milan and their approach to the Papacy. I would be honored, as the Kaiser suggested, to lead an army against the Milanese! But we must consider the broader implications of our actions before we strike. Now matter what course the Diet chooses, we must keep our eyes open and our weapons at hand!

This issue is worthy of a vote in the Diet, therefore I propose the following edict:

Edict 3.4: A defensive war will be fought with Milan, no incursions into their territory, until they are excommunicated or our standing with the Pope is "very good" or higher.

Like all of you, I wish to crush the Milanese! But we must be patient in how we do so, lest the conflict widen.

Edit: I will second edict 3.1, as I have said, there is no conflict between destroying the Milanese and doing it wisely.

[Ignoramus]

Count Sigismund der Stolze rises to his feet and addresses the assembled Diet.

Mein gut electors, Prinz Henry, and Kaiser Heinrich, first of all I would like to reaffirm mein allegiance to mein Kaiser and mein Duke, Prinz Henry.

Sigismund turns first to the Kaiser and raises his right hand.

I solemnly swear to serve and obey mein Kaiser, Heinrich, in all that he bids me. Even unto torture and death I shall be loyal.

Sigismund then turns to Prinz Henry, Duke of Swabia.

I once again pay homage and swear allegiance to mein Duke, Prinz Henry of Swabia, for the County of Lorraine. I swear to follow and obey him in all that he bids me. Even unto torture or death shall I remain loyal.

Sigismund again turns to face the Diet.

Now, fellow electors, I must get to the things at hand. I, Sigismund, Count of Lorraine, and Elector of Swabia, do offer myself to govern our Reich for the next term.

My overlord, Prinz Henry, Duke of Swabia, has graciously given me his consent and approval.

I have seen now how our traitorous foe, the Milanese, can fight. They are not natural soldiers, but rather burghers and merchants. Nevertheless, even though they cannot threaten a fully equipped Imperial army, they are still brave fighters. I came across these burgher militiamen outside of Bern, and they fought bravely against our superior skill and arms.

However, though they be brave, they are still traitors; traitors to the Reich and Kaiser. We cannot allow these city dwellers defy the might of our Reich any longer. I therefore intend to extinguish the very name of Milan from the map. We must strike hard and fast. Our magazines at Innsbruck, in Bavaria, can now supply more soldiers than any other Schloss in our Reich, and, what is more, I have heard from Otto von Kassel, that the drillmaster there can now train Sergeants armoured in mail. Innsbruck also controls one of the major Alpine passes. Crossing the Alps under the leadership of a Tyrolean such as Otto von Kassel, therefore, ought to present no problem.

And also, Sigismund motions towards the Kaiser, there is the Kaiser at the city of Florence. Although the Florentines are but poorly trained in the arts of warfare, I am sure that under Kaiser Heinrich's leadership that they ought to better the Milanese garrison of Genoa.

But, despite all the the insults that the Milanese traitors have hurled at us, there is one insult that cannot go unpardoned. The Milanese have taken the city of Dijon. That city, and the Duchy of Burgundy, once belonged to our Reich, before that fop in Rome incited them to rebellion. What's more, the usurper, the self-appointed Duke of Milan, has taken to residing there. I humbly, therefore, intend to take the act of punishing this insult by retaking Burgundy for the Reich.

Sigismund takes a sip of his beer before continuing.

Secondly, mein electors, we have the issue of His Holiness the Pope. Twice, mein electors, twice, have they arrogantly violated our borders. His Holiness has no love for the Kaiser, and his hatred against the Reich is well known. I therefore agree with our Kaiser and I intend to disregard the orders of the Papal Court. If they disregard our orders, then we are under no obligation to follow theirs. What is more, Pope Gregory has excommunicated our ally, King Roger of Sicily, and placed his lands under interdict. To not come to the aid of our ally would reflect badly upon the Reich, and open us up to ridicule from the English and the French. I therefore seek permission to attack his Holiness if the Diet, in their wisdom, elect me as Chancellor.

Therefore I propose Edict 3.5:

"Sigismund der Stolze, Count of Lorraine, requests permission of the this assembled Diet to attack the court of Rome, should he become Chancellor"

Sigismund then turns to Leopold, Duke of Austria.

Duke Leopold has expressed concern about the actions of the Magyars of Hungary on our eastern border. I, however, am doubtful whether they would attack. They seem to be more likely heading north to Krakow. I would instead concentrate on securing our borders against the Venetians.

The Venetians have been spotted intruding into Austria. I suppose they are on another picnic again and intend to admire the scenery? These Venetians may be city dwellers, but that's hardly an excuse for forgetting where the border is. However, we have given our word that we are allies, and I shall not break that word.

Sigismund again sips his mug of beer and wipes his forehead.

Finally, gut electors, there is the question of what to do with the Poles. We have concluded an alliance with these people, and they have no sizeable force near our borders. Therefore, I doubt that there is much to be worried about them. But we must not drop our guard, lest we fall prey to a sudden assault.

That, my gut electors, is all I have to say. I thank you for listening to me.

Count Sigismund bows to the Diet and returns to his seat.

[Warluster]

An messenger races into the Diet area, worry on his face, and stops short of the crowd
"Good Day Sirs, The Second Elector of Swabia, has been un-able to attend these meetings as he was attacked by an angry peasent near by, and has been treated to by healers, he shall hopefully be back at the Diet soon, but now he is recovering from his wounds" finshed the messenger, and he raced out.

[TinCow]

Maximillian Mandorf rises and clears his throat.

My fellow Electors, Germans, Romans.

Mandorf bows to the Diet.

We come together today at the crux of history. What we decide in this Diet will impact the fortunes of the Empire for a thousand years. There are important decisions to make, important debates to be had, and we must unite in a single purpose against our common enemy.

Yet for all that, there we have a more important duty at stake here today. We must elect a Chancellor to guide us through the coming trials. It will be a difficult period and no matter how well we legislate, there will certainly be many unpredictable eventualities. It is thus of the utmost importance that the man who takes the burden of Chancellor has the wisdom to chart the proper course and the strength to hold the rudder steady during the storm.

I can think of no better man for this duty than Count Sigismund der Stolze. The policies he has proposed are wise and reasoned, but above all, he has demonstrated his ability to choose the proper course of action in a time of crisis. Who here can say that, were they faced with the Siege of Bern, they would have chosen the same course of action as der Stolze? I for one know that I would have attempted to hold the walls and wait for reinforcements. Count der Stolze chose the more tenuous path, the one this body believed was a greater risk. There was much fear in this Diet while we waited for news of the battle after his decision had been announced to us. Yet, our timidity was misplaced and it was Count der Stolze whose course was the right one. In a time of crisis, he analyzed the situation, made the proper decision, and then acted on that decision without hesitation. These are the attributes we need in the years to come.

I wholeheartedly support Count Sigismund der Stolze for the position of Chancellor. All who wish to benefit the Reich would be wise to do so as well. Accordingly, I will also second Edicts 3.1, 3.2, and 3.5. I do not oppose Edicts 3.3 and 3.4, but I will have to think on them some more.

Mandorf pauses and looks around the room.

There is another matter that I must discuss with you today, brothers of the Reich. I wish to address you on a matter of honor and justice.

As Steward of Bavaria, I have been entrusted with the welfare of my entire noble House. I am not a man of royal blood or with royal ties, but I care for the nobles of my House as much as Prinz Henry, Duke Leopold, and Duke von Saxony care for theirs. It is my duty to ensure that their rights are upheld and that they are treated with the dignity and respect that is accorded to every last Imperial noble.

It is with great regret that I must report that I have failed in my duty to my fellow Bavarians. The rights to land and title are basic ones which are essential to the operation of feudal government. Yet, the Bavarian electors have been deprived these rights and I am incapable of aiding them.

Bavaria lacks a Duke. This is through no fault of any party, but it is fact. Not only do we lack a Duke, but for various reasons not worth discussing here it does not appear that we will be gifted with such a noble leader for many years to come. This regrettably means that it will be impossible for any Bavarian to be appointed to the rank of Count for many, many years. I wish to emphasize the time period involved. At a minimum, it will be 20 years before Bavaria is provided with a Duke and such a situation could possibly even continue for the next 40 years.

This is a unique difficulty which will never befall any other House. Swabia, Franconia, and Austria all have Dukes to fulfill these sacred duties. Due to the nature of hereditary titles, none of these houses will ever require the services of a Steward ever again. The Bavarian nobles who are here in the Diet with us today are the only men who will ever be subject to this most unjust of laws. I believe that honorable conduct between nobles requires that such a prejudicial disparity be resolved promptly.

I wish to emphasize that I personally do not seek, nor would I accept, any other Ducal powers or privileges. I do not wish for the ability to appoint my successor. I do not wish to have a voice in the eventual appointment of our Duke. I do not wish to gain additional ‘Influence’ over what I now possess. No, my lords, I wish simply to be able to do justice to the Bavarian nobility by endowing worthy members with the title of Count.

Accordingly, I propose the following Charter Amendment:

Charter Amendment 3.1: Stewards may bestow the rank of Count on nobles of their House. This Amendment does not give Stewards any other Ducal power, it does not give Stewards additional Influence, nor does it allow Stewards to be Counts themselves.

As honorable gentlemen, I ask that you all look into your hearts and ask whether such a request can be justly opposed. There is no one to blame for the inequity, but it exists all the same and honor dictates that it be rectified. I humbly request your aid to allow me to do justice to the noblemen of my House.

[Ituralde]

My dear Kaiser, Dukes, fellow Electors!

It is indeed an important hour in which we meet here today. First I have to applaud my father, our Emperor Heinrich who has led us through the last years. Our hopes were down and our Empire at it's low-point, but he has managed, together with our guidance, to lead us back once more towards the glory that we deserve. May the next Chancellor be as successful as Kaiser Heinrich the Champion!

So far only Sigismund der Stoltze has stepped forward to take this duty and I also beleive that he would be most capable of leading our Empire. If my brother Henry puts the faith in him to let him stand for election, I think he should stand up to the critical looks of any man in this Diet.

However, I have to disagree with some of his political proposals and would like to echo Otto von Kassel to some degree, when I say that we have to be cautious. I don't need to remind you of the perils of excommunication and yet you propose us to take it on us once again.
Excommunication, gentlemen, would open our borders for every would-be invader that comes along. Some may even be inspired by the word of Pope Gregory to attack us, although they had no ill will against us beforehand. We may disagree with Pope Gregory's decisions in the past but let us not forget that he still is a mighty man and his word holds sway over the various Christian rulers of Europe. Incurring their wrath is something that we can not allow in our current situation. Our armies may be strong and able to defeat our foes even though they outnumber us, but were half of Western Europe arrayed against us, no courage and no bravery would save us.
I urge you Electors to consider these things, before you propose actions that lead us towards excommunication or even dare to attack Rome itself!

Now, the matter at hand is the war with the Milanese and you know that I want them wiped off the face of this earth. But we have to be careful. Patience is a virtue that we should not discard. An attack against the city of Milan is vital in our current situation. The attack on Bern can not be unavenged and the Duchies capital is under-defended and well within striking distance of our armies. An army from Innsbruck under Otto von Kassel joined by forces from Bologna should be able to attack the city within two turns. This should be our only offensive action against the Milanese for now. It will anger the Pope enough, of that I'm sure, but if we are fast he won't threaten with excommmunication until after Milan is firmly under our control. With the head of the Milanese snake cut off, we can rest back and allow Pope Gregory his will and let the Milanese come at us.

I think the essence of my intentions can be summarized by two Edicts.
Edict 3.6: The Chancellor has to avoid excommunication to the best of his abilities, by agreeing to the following: No offensive war may lead to excommunication and no attack on Rome is to be made.
Edict 3.7: A combined army under the lead of Otto von Kassel is to attack and take Milan as soon as possible.

Our other military forces should stay put and ward our borders. The Milanese may very well try to attack Bern castle once again and it would be a shame if Count Sigismund were halfway on his way to Dijon instead of putting his capacities towards the defense of Bern.
Me, I will stay in Vienna and amass a sizeable enough force to persuade any would-be attacker into rethinking his ambitions. I don't know what our allies are up to, marching troops through our countryside,but rest assured that I will watch them closely and destroy them utterly should they seek harm for the Reich.

Furthermore, I second Edicts 3.1 and 3.2.

Leopold looks around the Assembly quietly, passing each of the Houses with his glance to drive home the points he just made, before taking a deep breath and continuing a note mor jovially.

Maximilian Mandorf raises a valid point concerning a flaw in our current Charter and I have to agree with him. I second Charter Amendment 3.1.
While we are at the matter of Charter Amendments I'd like to put another small piece of legislation forward to this Diet. The late Second Elector of Austria Conrad von Schüsselen has thought up this Amendment, after discussions revolving around the distribution of settlements have arisen during our first Diet session. I owe it to this esteemed member of the House of Austria to at least present his deliberations to this Diet.
While we were able to agree on a common course during our first discussion, much of it revolved around the Kaiser following notions put forward in the Diet. While noble in thought it does not give any guarantees in case a Kaiser would be unwilling to listen to the Diet.
That's why I would like to put the following up for discussion:

Charter Amendment 3.2:
The House of Austria proposes a Charter Amendment which will anull §5.3 and change §4.3 to read the following:
"The allocation of settlements is decided upon in the Diet session that follows the capture of the settlement. Until then the captured settlement remains under direct control of the Reich. The voting for settlement allocation will follow these rules:
Each House has one vote, which will be placed by the respective Duke.
A majority is required for a settlement to be allocated to a specific House.
If there is a draw in votes, the Emperor may break the tie and grant the settlements to one of the tied Houses."

I would be especially interested in the oppinions of my father, Emperor Heinrich and my brother Henry who will eventually lead our glorious Reich as Kaiser. The intention behind the Amendment is not to wrest power from the Kaiser and give it to the Dukes, but to formalize the decision process for settlement allocations, while at the same time broadening the field of particpants to involve all parties concerned, equally. I'm looking forward to your honoured oppinions on all matters put forward by me and the House of Austria.

He bows slightly to the Assembly, before settling down again.

[econ21]

Prinz Henry: I would like to propose:

Charter Ammendment 3.3 Replace point 3.10 with

"Influential players get bonus votes (max +5 bonus)

Appointed Influence (Max 3 points):
Duke: +2
Count: +1
Chancellor, ex-Chancellor, or Prince: +1

Stat Influence (Max 2 points):
15 or more total stat points: +1 (I thought about a lower number, but all avatars are given a base 3 piety and base 5 loyalty, which means those points are freebies. So, 15 is only 7 from actual traits, plus the 8 piety and loyalty freebies)
6 or more ranks in one stat: +1 (In the unlikely scenario where a character gets 6 or more in 2 stats without having 15 total, they get this +1 twice)

The player who is Emperor gets bonus votes differently, being equal to his authority."

Replace 4.5 with:

"Counts are governors of their settlements. Dukes govern settlements that are allocated to their Houses but not to a Count. The Emperor governs settlements that are not allocated to any House."

OOC: These are TinCow's proposals already discussed OOC. Let's keep discussion of them there, but they should be seconded and voted on in the Diet.

[Warluster]

The Second Elector of Swabia walks in with an walking cane, then sits down, where his Fellow Electors brief him on the situation
I see, I have no long speeh to bore you with, i have an short sentence to say. That is this; Sigismund der Stolze is an noble man, and he shall lead this empire onto glorius things. Just as kaiser Heinrich has done.He bows to the Kaiser I support the decision fully that the Count Sigismund should become Chancellor, thank you for listening
The Elector sat down, feeling his stomach where he was attacked

[econ21]

Prinz Henry: I am proud to support my adopted son and fellow Swabian, Count Sigismund, in his candidature for Chancellor. I believe a term of 20 years (10 turns) may be an appropriate term of office, given the rigours of war.

However, I confess, I am reluctant to sanction an attack on Rome at this stage. It is true that sooner or later, we - the Holy Roman Empire - must occupy Rome. It is only right and fitting. But I had thought that we should delay such a move, until we stand as the clear and unchallenged leader of Catholic Europe. At present, our position, although strong thanks to my father, remains fragile and I fear we could be torn down if our many Catholic neighbours all turn on us following our excommunication. As I have indicated before, I would prefer us to use the Papacy and benefit from the wave of religious zeal that is engulfing Europe.

In this respect, I see much tactical advantage in Sir Otto's proposal to sucker the Milanese into attacking us again repeatedly and let them become excommunicated. Were that to happen, we would be free to strike at all their cities without being ordered to desist by the Pope. And indeed, we could call a mighty crusade to crush Milan, attracting fine zealous fighters to our cause. I would ask Count Sigismund to ponder Duke Otto's strategy and perhaps see Milanese excommunication as the trigger that will allow him to achieve his rightful goal of crushing Milan without risking a wider conflagration.

I second Constitutional Ammendment 3.1. It is unjust that Bavaria is denied Counts due to the absence of a Duke. Remedying that injustice is a simple matter.

However, I strongly oppose Constitutional Ammendment 3.2. I confess, I do not see how this is supposed to work, given the naked conflicts of interests between the Dukes when making such decisions. In my mind, I have an image of a newly acquired settlement as a captured fox and see the Ammendment as proposing it be thrown to a pack of hounds. I fear hounds may behave decorously by comparison to how men will squabble over the division of the spoils. Such naked competition may foster conflict between Houses and division that weaken our empire.

It may be that the Dukes could come to some non-competitive solution - perhaps agreeing on an allocation on geographic lines. They may then come to behave less like hounds and more like those slothful reptiles from Africa and Asia who lie idly even when thrown fish or meat. Such an outcome may rob the Empire of some of its dynamism - Houses will no longer have to distinguish themselves to achieve rewards. Or it may skew our statecraft so that it becomes directed towards territorial expansion in the area of influence assigned to the most politically powerful House.

So, fellow Electors, I have deep unease with Ammendment 3.2. I would prefer to see the Emperor remain free to reward Houses with settlements. He will allocate them as he judges fairest and most conducive to the good of the Empire. Aside from anything else, the Ammendment would seem to rob my father of his one real power and reduce our Empire to something more properly corresponding to a Republic, albeit one fractured on geographic lines. We have constructed a more subtle system of checks and balances, with a separation of powers. I would like to see evidence of the system failing before supporting such sweeping change.

Prinz Henry sits down, then Sir Otto approaches and whispers something in his ear. Henry thinks for a moment, then rises again.

On reflection, I second Edict 3.4.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Kaiser Heinrich:

This is not the time to make use of tactical maneuvering or diplomacy. This may shock the Diet, I know, but now is the time for something different.

In the twilight of my Chancellorship, the Pope had the audacity to twice -twice! - violate the Empire's borders and instruct me on how to conduct diplomacy. He flaunts his power and authority openly. He knows that we have not the resources to seriously challenge him, so he prances through Imperial territory with the largest army he can find, knowing we can do nothing. The Milanese, our former subjects, seek to now make us their subjects. They have brazenly besieged Bern, which we at the time had just conquered.

Now is the time to show the world our power.

I admit, good Electors, that I am to blame for the reason that we have had to reclaim our glory in the first place. I have made some errors in the past, if you will. The Investiture Controversy threatened to shatter our Reich and change the way Europe has worked forever - in a way the second scenario has already happened. However, I do believe that the actions that this Diet and I have taken in my just-concluded Chancellorship have prevented the gradual crumbling of this great nation.

What we have accomplished in the previous years is no small feat. Under my Chancellorship, we have doubled in size. We have grown in power, and we have financially stabilized ourselves. Why should we still be taking orders from Pope Gregory and fighting passively against the Milanese? These people had the nerve to attack us, to publicly humiliate us! We must strike back with a fury. We do this so that all the world knows that they are subservient to us!

I remind the Diet that we have been given an oppurtunity to shine on the world's stage with the Milan and Papal situation. I beg to them that we do not squander it.

If we properly make a statement now, then I assure you, we will have to worry about very little for quite a long time.

Edict 3.8: Milan is to be crushed by an offensive campaign, one that does not wait for Papal opinion or any other outside factor to strike. Kaiser Heinrich is to have a major role in this campaign.

Edict 3.9: Edict 1.1 is hereby repealed.

I second Edict 3.5 and Charter Amendments 3.1 and 3.3.

I also support good Sigismund der Stolze in his bid for Chancellorship. May he lead this Reich into a golden age more golden than the world has ever seen.

[TinCow]

Maximillian Mandorf jerks to his feet with a gleem in his eye, his arm snapping into a stern military salute.

Mein Kaiser! I can walk!

Mandorf pauses and shakes his head from side to side, as if he had walked into a spiderweb.

...my...apologies... gentlemen. I do not know what came over me.

Mandorf regains his composure and continues.

Kaiser Heinrich shows the courage of a true Emperor! We must seize the opportunity presented to us and strike deeply into the hearts of our enemies. We must, of course, despose of the rebellious Milanese, but if we do so and leave the Usurper intact, he will send another one of his subjugated Kings against us. If the Reich is ever to be truly secure, we must ensure that the Papal throne is fully within Imperial control.

Some of you propose restraining our assault, fearing the Usurper's power. Some of you want immediate action. I believe there may yet be a way to assail Rome without provoking severe retaliation from those Catholics who have bent knee to the false Pope. I have heard rumors that the Pope is considering calling a great Crusade to return the eastern lands to Catholic control. I feel as if this event is over-due and may well be called soon. Once the Pope calls for this mass campaign, he will be unable to assemble sufficient resources to ask for a second one against us!

We should move against the Milanese now, restraining our wrath only on the threat of immediate excommunication. Yet, once Gregory's Crusade is launched, we should strike at all remaining Milanese forces and then take on Rome itself. We will certainly be excommunicated by the false Pope, but with all of his followers responding to his first call to arms, no friendly nation will raise arms against us. Perhaps some may take advantage of our disfavor to attack, but any who would do so would likely strike soon anyway.

Let us destroy the Milanese and return Rome to the Empire! As a final measure, it would be my dying wish to see the Kaiser himself cross the floor of the holy basilica in Rome. Let us send a message to all Christendom that the laws of God cannot be violated!

Edict 3.10: If Rome is assaulted and Kaiser Heinrich is alive, he must lead the attack.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Kaiser Heinrich:

Naturally, I second Edict 3.10. I would be honored to fully redeem myself.

I remind the Electors that if they agree with Edicts it is not enough that they vocally support them, but officially second them. Otherwise the scribes could get confused.

[AussieGiant]

Standing slowly the 4th Elector of House Austria composes himself for a moment:

Kaiser Heinrich, Prinz Henry, Dukes of the Realm, fellow electors,

Gazing out the great window above the heads of the assembled nobles, the 4th elector says absently

Attack Rome you say...

Very few things in life are absolute gentlemen, however, if we attack Rome, then this course of action will provide for some absolutes in our life time.

Raising his voice and beginning to pace in front of the Austrian benches the 4th Elector continues

First, WE WILL BE EXCOMMUNICATED...fact!

Second, our Reich and the people WE lead will question us and our actions...we will need to spend far more resources controlling our own population than we currently do....fact!!

Third, we will be surrounded by 7 Catholic nations of which only 1 is not able to attack us with the Pope’s backing. The military options open to our enemies will be unlimited. Are we really in a position to conduct a potential war on such a scale?

Fourth, our trade and current financial status will drop sharply.

The pacing continues, however his voice lowers to a normal level again

Without try to sound like a bore my lords, WHY are we considering attacking the Pope?

Forgive me if I am not overly impressed by the words of outrage and such. Whether we like it or not, the POPE is the POPE. Spitting in his face, taking his city, slapping his arse will not change that!!

To openly defy him has never brought ANY nation ANY benefits. Are we not able to learn from the past? Is anyone able to outline ONE benefit to this Diet?

I think it`s time gentlemen, to put aside our personal ambitions, our hidden agendas, our outrage and our egos and keep in mind the normal people of our realm, and THEIR condemnation of US if we were to take this course.

Stopping for the moment and standing quite still, the 4th Elector smiles to the gathered nobles

I personally think it's time we cease drinking the Absinth Duke Leopold has brought back from Prague...go outside and do one of the following things...or, both if they really take your fancy...

...strip yourselves naked, and have each of your page man throw a bucket of cold water on you from the battlements...or, go to the jousting range and have Helmut, our local jousting champion, slam his lance once or twice against your Great Helms, and NOOO, that’s NOT the great helm on your head gentlemen...I mean the OTHER great helm we all have!!

I say this my lords, because it’s that level of pain and suffering the people of our nation will surely feel if we allow our secular ambitions to convince us, that attacking Rome is in the best interests of this Reich and the people we have the privilege to govern.

I therefore second edicts 3.4, 3.6, 3.7 and Charter Amendment 3.3

My God rest our souls!!!

[OverKnight]

Otto looks tired. Over the course of the speeches calling for an assault on Rome he has sunk lower and lower in his chair. After hearing the speech of the newest member of the Diet, Otto seems to come to a decision. Clenching his jaw he rises to speak:

My lords, before I return to the topic that seems to have dominated this session let me propose a somewhat unrelated edict:

Edict 3.11: The Chancellor will endeavor to construct naval forces capable of blockades and transport of mid-sized armies in the Baltic and especially the Mediterranean. Dukes and Counts are encouraged by the Diet to build port facilities in their domains, if applicable.

What ever course we choose fellow electors, we are no longer an inland Empire. Our current and future foes will posses navies, and we must build one of our own for both offensive and defensive actions.


As much as I would like to leave this topic behind me forever, I must return to this Rome adventure.

Otto pauses, a picture of confliction, he takes a deep breath and speaks again:

I hope you understand, my fellow electors, that my opposition to seizing Rome and our subsequent excommunication stems from my opinion of what is best for the Reich at this time, and not any sort of regard for Pope Gregory himself. I respect the power of the office, not the occupant.

This reckless scheme would perhaps not fill me with so much dread if those who proposed it had a specific plan in mind for the aftermath. My Steward's thoughts on using a Crusade as cover for our actions are clever, but we do not know when this will occur. How long will we wait under Interdiction Maximillian?

What would we do after taking Rome and "deposing" the current Pope? We would still be excommunicated, we would still be at war with the Papal States and most likely a few other Catholic nations. We have no Cardinals among the Preferati, so we cannot guarantee a friendly replacement. What do you think would happen if a Milanese Cardinal was elevated to the throne of Peter!?

The next Pope would most likely still oppose our war with Milan and we would find ourselves back in a similar situation. So the way I see it is, we invade Rome, suffer excommunication, and possibly bring the combined forces of the Catholic world down on our Empire, and for what? Revenge against one man. . .one man. This is hubris.

So I ask you Kaiser Heinrich, Count Sigismund, and Steward Mandorf what do we do after you have had your vengeance? How will we restore our relations with the Church and our fellow Catholic nations? What will be the final price for your pound of flesh?

I await your answers.

But know this, no matter the outcome, I serve the Empire!

Otto sits, miserable and clearly drained.

[Ituralde]

Duke Leopold has been shaking his head to the speeches following his and now finally, after Otto von Kassel has spoken, a thin smile creeps on his features. His hand steepled in front of his face, his gaze travels to the mentioned persons, awaiting a response.

[econ21]

Prinz Henry: Thanks to the sterling efforts of Gunther of Eichstadt (dlain), a list of current edicts and ammendments has been posted at the front of the Diet:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...92&postcount=1

(I also note that I second Edicts 3.6 and 3.11).

The closing time for seconding edicts will be Thursday 9am UK time. There will then be a 24 hours period of voting.

[OverKnight]

Otto, his head in his hands, glances up and sees the smile on Duke Leopold's face. Trembling with rage, he leaps up, nearly knocking his desk over.

Ah, yes, I had almost forgotten! Duke Leopold please take my name off of edict 3.7! I will not be your catspaw! It's the same trick von Schusslen tried years ago. We agree on Rome and Milan, my lord, but not much else.

Otto sits again, rubbing his right temple and muttering to himself.

[TinCow]

(OOC: Gunther von Kastilien is Dutch_guy. Dlain is Otto von Kassel.)

Maximillian Mandorf meets Duke Leopold’s gaze, unblinking.

Excommunication…
Vengeance against one man…

These are statements of fear and submission. One the subject of excommunication, there are only two issues; our immortal souls and the consequences in this life. The former will not be imperiled, as Gregory is a False Pope, without the blessing of God. His words and deeds carry no influence in the Heavens. However, it is wise to take the latter into consideration before acting.

As has been stated, there will be turmoil within the Empire and without. We can certainly expect those who have fallen under the sway of the false Pope to cause trouble in our cities, but this is of little concern to us. Many of our provinces are castles, which will have no problems controlling such individuals. Our cities are for the most part extremely well governed and controlled. Few, likely none, would even require a reduction in taxes to keep the citizens content.

Of our neighbors, few have any real potential of harming us. Poland and Venice are our allies. They will not strike at us. Milan will soon be crushed no matter what. Denmark has little power to speak of and I am certain that the most noble House of Franconia could seize their lands in short order if called upon to do so. Despite all of the concerns raised over the many enemies that would attack us, there are really only two nations which have the potential to cause us problems: Hungary and France.

Our borders with France are minimal and they in turn share borders with 5 other nations, excluding ourselves. I find it hard to believe that they would choose to attack the strongest of their neighbors, given their situation. Hungary, however, is of legitimate concern. We have already seen their armies prowling around Vienna. It is clear that they desire the wealth of the Empire. I believe they will strike us no matter what we do. As such, moving against the Pope does not put us in any worse a situation than we are currently in.

On the contrary, I believe taking Rome now will be of great advantage to us. If we do not return the Papal throne to Imperial control, we will be bending knee to every whim of every Pope for the next thousand years! If the Pope were a properly ordained and appointed man, then we would have to respect his orders. Gregory is not such a man! He is invalid and his laws are invalid. He will do everything in his power to obstruct us and the rightful order and his successors will likely do the same.

If we move on Rome now, we will perhaps experience short-term difficulties, but in the long-term we will benefit the Empire. If we coordinate our assaults properly, Gregory’s army can be destroyed and Rome itself can be seized in a very short period of time. Once this is achieved, we can then create a new home for the Papacy in a place of our choosing. This will make the next Pope extremely grateful to us and put him physically within our control. Surely the Emperor will approve of his appointment beforehand, thus making his rulings valid law which we must obeyed. The Empire can then freely donate money to the Church knowing that it will be spend in God’s work rather than funding a minion of Satan.

As for where to locate the new Papacy… I would be willing to give up Nuremburg itself for the properly appointed Holy Father. Nuremburg is completely surrounded by the Empire, ensuring that our control over the Pope will never again be questioned. While Nuremburg is a beautiful city and a current financial center to our economy, it is landlocked and has limited trade potential in the long-run. Any loss of income from Nuremburg will surely be negligible in comparison to the prosperity we will gain from Rome itself.

I propose that we continue with the planned attack on Milan and wait to see if there is a call for Crusade from the Pope. If the Crusade is called, we should then immediately assault the Eternal City and the Pope’s forces with all available strength. If the call for Crusade does not come by the mid-term session, we can discuss whether or not to proceed at that point.

The coming years will likely result in many unpredictable events. I have been loathe to formalize this strategy into an Edict, but it appears that for clarity it might be necessary. I do not believe this Edict is necessary for this plan to succeed, but I shall propose it anyway to allow for proper discussion.

Edict 3.12: The Reich will immediately and aggressively attack Milan, ceasing the assault only under threat of immediate excommunication from Gregory. If a Crusade is called before the Diet session of 1140, the Reich will immediately and aggressively assault the Pope’s army, Rome, and any areas still under Milanese control. If a Crusade is not called before the Diet session of 1140, the assault on the Pope and Rome will be discussed again at that time.

Edict 3.13: If Rome is taken at any time during this Chancellorship, the Papacy will immediately be given a new home that is within Imperial control. In that event, an Emergency Session of the Diet will be called to determine which province is to be donated. As the Pope will then once again be approved by the Kaiser, regular funding will be properly given to the Church to allow it to continue God’s works.

Do not shy away from difficult times, my fellow noblemen. We will be opposed, to be sure, but we pursue a holy cause, ordained by God. Let us weather the difficulties so that we may restore Heaven’s influence on earth and benefit the Reich for centuries to come.

Mandorf crosses himself and sits down.