Imperial Diet II

[econ21]

A messenger reads a short note from the Kaiser:

Electors,

As my brother's term of office winds down, I would like to give notice that at the next Diet I will not exercise my perogative to be Chancellor. Therefore, there will be an election for the post as usual. I tell you this now so that potential candidates will not be taken by surprise and will have plenty of time to prepare.

I am most satisfied with the excellent work my brother Leopold has done in defending the Reich. However, the progress of the crusade, while smooth, has been rather slow. I anticipate that we will still be marching to Jerusalem throughout the next Chancellorship. I believe I will be more able to make my mark as Chancellor after we have taken Jerusalem. In the interim, I trust to the wisdom of the Council of Crusaders to shepherd us onwards to our destination and the wisdom of you, my good Electors, to elect a suitable successor to Duke Leopold as Chancellor.

Kaiser Henry

[AussieGiant]

Congratulations Count Salier. Your conduct has earned you your rank.

[OverKnight]

A message arrives from Otto:

News has reached me that Pope Filippus has recruited a company of mercenary crossbowmen. This is discouraging news as we might be forced into another confrontation. I would ask the Electors to think about what I wrote earlier.

The duty of defending Rome has fallen to Bavaria, but it is the capital of the Reich. We all must seek to find a way to safeguard the eternal city and secure peace and reconciliation for the Reich.

[TevashSzat]

The popes have never been military geniuses and never will and seeing as he has yet to have found a city to call home, he will most likely not be any big problem.

[Warluster]

True, but all humans are diffrent, we might have an odd one.

I say deal with this Pope immediatly, he will never pursue Paceful terms so pu t a end to him and his army!

[Ignoramus]

Ulrich Hümmel enters the Diet, his mail splattered with blood.

Mein electors, we have crushed those treacherous men of Lorraine. They fought feebly at best, and I had no scruples in butchering them. I trust that the "example" I made of those schwein will discourage future acts of treason against the Kaiser and the Reich!

Ulrich exits to change into more suitable attire.

[Warluster]

The Prinz stands

Excellent! Excellent! This is indeed Great news Steward Hummel! I congratulate you on this victory!

So with the siege of Metz over, Dijon calming down and the French hiding around Rheims, possibly Sabia could mount a attack on Rheims?

Think of it,

Ulrich could advance from Metz, taking a large new force with him. This force shall be the siege force. Then I shall come from a more southerly path and clear the way for Ulrich, then the two armies hsall join, and we can attack Rheims? This would give The Reich a foothold in France, and a more disguised road to England!

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: In accordance with the Kaiser's earlier pledge, I am authorised to announce that Steward Ulrich Hummel is now appointed Duke of Swabia. May God grant him wisdom and aid in defending our western borders from the French!

Metz is now returned to Swabia. The allocation of Venice and Budapest will be made at the next full Diet session.

[TinCow]

*A Bavarian clerk steps forward.*

I would like to remind Prinz von Salza that Edict E1.7 prevents the Reich from taking any French city other than Marseille. Indeed, given the current status of the Reich, we are prevented from taking any cities other than Breslau, Marseille, and a single territory from any nation which has declared war on us since that time. For now, that would allow for a single English territory only, as a Hungarian territory has already been taken.

[Ignoramus]

Duke Ulrich returns to the Diet after changing into more suitable attire. He walks over to the front of the Swabian quarter and takes his seat as Duke.

After thanking the Kaiser for his appointment as Duke of Swabia, Ulrich stands up and addresses the Chancellor.

Duke Leopold, may I commend you on the fine handling of the Reich that you have displayed. Though, I confess, I am concerned about the western frontier. The French currently have a citadel in Toulouse, and Fortresses in Angers and Bordeaux. I fear that with only Staufen to provide soliders for Swabia we shall be stretched by the French. And let us not forget that they do not fight honourably, man to man, but they bribe, they murder, they hate.

Duke Ulrich resumes his seat.

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: Now that Chancellor Leopold has submitted his final report, I am opening the Diet for the proposal of Edicts and for candidates for the post of Chancellor. The deadline for edicts and manifestoes is 9pm (UK time) Wednesday.

I would encourage candidates to declare early, so that they may shape policy and be open to questions.

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: I have received the following communication from the Kaiser:

I am happy to assign Venice and Budapest to the House of Austria.

I understand there was an agreement between my father and my brother Leopold that Venice would become part of Austria. I am pleased to honour this agreement. However regardless of that undertaking, I would anyway assign Venice to Austria as a reward for Duke Leopold's fine leadership of the Reich as Chancellor. I know he has long been interested in Italian politics and am happy to indulge that interest.

In the case of Budapest, I believe this was taken by the Austrian Household army and anyway, given its location, in future, it would most rationally be defended by that army.

Once again, I thank Duke Leopold for his service and hope his successor will be able to match his achievements.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

I congratulate Duke Leopold on an excellent term. God has seen fit to smile upon his Chancellorship. While we still remain excommunicated, the Reich is vigilant. The Lord has not seen fit to make us weak, and that, my friends, is a very good sign.

[TevashSzat]

I would like to propose:

Edict 7.1: More priests shall accompany the crusaders in order to convert the heathens in the aftermath of the crusade

After we have retook what is ours in the Holy Lands, the population will no doubt be restless and may try to revolt forcing us to station more troops within the cities. In order to counter this, more priests than the two with the crusaders shall be sent, preferably by ship if possible for faster arrival.

[OverKnight]

Gunther stands to read a message from Otto von Kassel:

My lords, let me first thank Duke Leopold for his fine service to the Reich as Chancellor. He has seen us through difficult times, and the Reich is stronger because of him. The Crusade has reached Anatolia and is poised to enter heathen lands, and on the home front we have destroyed incursions into our lands and taken Budapest. Yet, there are still many challenges we must face, both for the those in the Reich and on Crusade.

With this in mind, I announce my candidacy for Chancellor.

Some would say that a Crusader should not be Chancellor. I say with an efficient messenger system and the relative autonomy of the Household Armies that I can be an effective Chancellor. If a Chancellor in the Reich can coordinate the Crusade, than a Chancellor on Crusade can coordinate the Reich. It is not ideal, but only God knows perfection. (OOC: Realistically, we would have separate executives for both, but that was nixed because of speed of play issues.)

My goals in office would be:

First, we must have peace and reconciliation with the Papacy. This will be difficult and I refer you to my letter to the Diet on the matter.

Despite the Chancellor's best efforts, our negotiations have failed. I would ask the Diet how we should proceed. As I see it, there are two ways we can proceed to increase the chances of peace and reconciliation.

The first is the way of the sword. I believe Kaiser Heinrich wished this pursued more. We attempt to make peace with the current Pontiff, if he proves intransigent, we remove him and vote for a candidate who might be more receptive to us. There are no Imperial Cardinals among the Preferati, but if we vote for the Cardinal who does become Pope, it might serve. If the Pope we vote for is ungrateful for our support, we unfortunately might have to repeat the process. I have found this idea repugnant in the past and I do not propose it lightly, but it may bring about peace more quickly.

The second is the way of the Book. We recruit more priests into the Imperial service, build churches in the Reich and have our missionaries convert the heathens in far away lands. This will eventually improve our standing with the Pope and again we might have peace more quickly. A secondary benefit is that many of those new priests would prove useful on the Crusade.

Either option requires that we set aside a large amount of money to facilitate negotiations. The first option would most likely be quicker and cheaper, but it is much more distasteful than the second.

I would not pursue the carrot or stick approach without a clear mandate from the Diet, and I would encourage the Electors to give me one on this issue. But with the current Pope, I fear we will not achieve peace for a long time. Whatever path is chosen I intend to recruit more priests, using the new Theologian's Guild in Budapest. We could use more missionaries and a greater Imperial presence in the College of Cardinals. I believe the Fourth Elector of Swabia has already spoken on this matter.

My second goal is to safely get the Crusade to the Holy Land.

My third goal is economic expansion. There may be limits on our territorial conquests, but we should take advantage of our merchant guilds to train agents so they can trade goods and acquire monopolies. With a small initial investment, this will fill our coffers. We will need money for peace with the Pope and war with the infidel.

My fourth goal is to rebuild the Imperial Navy in the Mediterranean and Baltic. We are vulnerable to blockade and ship borne invasions without it.

My fifth goal would be to maintain good relations with our remaining allies and neighboring neutral factions. This might require a small annuity.

My sixth goal is to stabilize the frontiers of the Reich. As repeated incursions against Frankfurt and Venice have shown, we must have a defensible border. I shall accomplish this by taking Breslau and Marseille. I would also ask that Ragusa be added to the list of allowable conquests. That Venetian territory is like a dagger aimed at the heart of the Reich, it has been the source of many attacks on Venice and Zagreb. By seizing it, we will be able to shorten the borders of the Empire and have a port closer to the Holy Land than any other we now have.

I ask for your support my fellow Electors. Together we can bring the Reich to redemption and glory. Together we can smite the infidel and bring the Cross to Jerusalem. Together we can triumph!

Edit: I will second Edict 7.1

[OverKnight]

Gunther looks around at the disturbingly quiet chamber of the Diet and coughs politely. He rises and speaks:

My lords, Duke von Kassel instructed me to propose the following edict if no one else would. He realizes it may not be popular, but it is needed to gauge the support of the Diet for the "way of the sword" he spoke of earlier. My lord has promised to follow the will of the Diet on this matter.

Edict 7.2: If peace talks fail with the Papacy after a good faith negotiation is made (Florence and at least 5,000 florins are offered) the Diet authorizes the Chancellor to assault the Papal army and then seek peace with the newly elected Pontiff. The Chancellor is authorized to repeat this process as needed, but if a HRE Cardinal becomes Pope, this edict would cease to be in effect.

I have been instructed to listen to any modifications that might be proposed by the Electors and pass them on to my master for consideration. The Duke wishes that a consensus emerge from the Diet about this matter. "The way of the Book" is less controversial, and he feels an edict is not needed for it.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

First of all, I strongly support Duke Otto's candidacy.

Now, however, I direct everyone's attention to the comment he made about the carrot and the stick.

Gentlemen, this Papal situation has been hanging over all of our heads for too long now. We have tried to deal with it many different times with many different approaches, but none have worked. Unfortunately, despite the best of all of our efforts, we are seen by the majority of Catholic Europe as just as heretical as the heathens whom our Crusade on Jerusalem is currently directed at.

Dealing with this problem in moderation has failed. Many times Kaiser Heinrich deposed of the current, unfriendly Pope in hopes that the new one elected would be more sympathetic. It has not worked. Likewise, on the other side of the spectrum, Duke Leopold has attempted to end things with Florence and a small sum of money. This too has not worked.

It is clear to me that moderation is not the answer here. This crisis will have to be dealt with radically, with an option so polar that it would not have even been considered years ago, aside from our darkest dreams.

The question is, do we solve this problem with the juciest of carrots, or the hardest of sticks?

The juciest of carrots, of course, would be to give in. Admit that we did a very bad thing and beg to be reconciled. Give whatever is necessary. While some of us in this Diet may condemn me for the appearance of cowardice, you cannot argue with the results. And consider the alternative.

If we decide to go with the hardest of sticks option, we will have no choice but to systematically kill each and every Cardinal in the College that is not of Imperial stock.

Obviously, this has both spiritual and physical consequences. It would work, certainly. But would we ever forgive ourselves for the act? Do the ends truly justify the means in this situation? What would the Lord think of us when we embark on this Crusade to redeem ourselves, and at the same time, at home, slaughter those who have devoted their lives to the cloth? And, to be more practical, would we find anyone to carry out this terrible task? I, for one, would not. As I hope, none of you would.

My friends, those are the only two choices if reconciliation is to be pursued. Do not kid yourself. You know it to be true in the deepest part of your hearts. And one of those two is an abomination, a terrible deed akin to the betrayal of Christ.

So really, we only have one option left. And it is not the Way of the Sword as Duke Otto proposed.

Edict 7.3: The Chancellor is authorized to use any means, amount of florins, or land necessary to obtain reconciliation with the Papacy, so long as it is not prohibited in any way by the Charter.

It may hurt, yes. But it is the only way.

[Northnovas]

The newly appointed Count of Zagreb stands to address the quiet chamber...

Electors, Conrad Salier's words are too true. I will second Edict 7.3 the time as come to heal these wounds and pay the cost to right our path with the Papacy for the people of the Empire.
Let us obtain peace with the Pope and concentrate our fight with the enemies of the Empire trying to take our lands and for the Crusaders doing God's glory fighting in an inhospitable land.

[Ignoramus]

Duke Ulrich Hummel rises to speak.

Mein electors, though I am but recently made the Duke of Swabia, I humbly put myself forward to you as a contender for Chancellor.

Everywhere the Reich faces enemies. The Kingdom of France is powerful enough to mount a serious challenge in the west. Their citadel in Toulouse trains and equips braver knights than we can ever dream of calling the Reich's.

The Milanese still maintain castles on the islands of Corsica and Sardinia, and their constant raids on the Tuscan coast are creating instabilty amongst our Italian possessions.

The Kingdom of England still retains the fief of Normandy, and has recently seized the land of Norway, from which they launch their raids to the north of the Reich.

In the east, the Kingdoms of Hungary and Poland, although checked, are still menacing.

In these troubled times, a strong leader is needed. Though I doubt not Duke Otto's bravery, or his piety for taking up the cross, he is going on Crusade. Such a journey is filled with dangers, both from battle and from starvation. Should Duke Otto perish while in the Levant, what would become of the Reich?

I would first of all consolidate our borders. I would begin constructing forts to hold mountain passes and river crossing to prevent rebels and enemy armies rampaging through the heart of the Reich.

Secondly, I would attempt to appease the Pope and give him a distant island such as Crete, Rhodes, or Cyprus. Over there, he can do but little harm, and it will save us from having to maintain a heavy garrison in Rome.

During mein rule, the frontiers would be consolidated, the rebels defeated, and united Reich ready to crush any opposition.

War, however, would not be negelected during mein term. I would launch major invasions against the Kingdoms of France and Poland, and I would also seek to reduce the islands of Corsica and Sardinia.

Duke Ulrich resumes his seat.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

Duke Hummel, I have no doubt that you would indeed make a capable leader of the Reich. However, I have but one question:

I would launch major invasions against the Kingdoms of France and Poland

Current Edicts prevent this sort of thing from happening. It was made clear in the Emergency Diet Session of 1154 that we were to go on the defensive for the duration of the Crusade. Yet, you propose to "launch major invasions" of two of our greatest enemies, the Poles and the French.

Assuming that you manage to revise the Edicts and win the election, how would you fund these sustained invasions and still manage to reconcile with the Pope using appeasment?

[Ignoramus]

Duke Hummel rises and turns to Conrad Salier.

You raise gut points, mein elector.

The invasion of France would indeed require an edict. However, I trust that the electors would see what a threat the French present. Taking only Marseilles, which rightfully belongs to us anyway, will not hinder them whatsoever. Already they have fortresses in Angers and Bordeaux and a citadel in Toulouse. Staufen, however, is the only fortress the Reich has near the western border.

Funding the invasions would be simple. The Ducal army of Franconia is well-equiped to march on Krakow. As to France, the Ducal army of Swabia is experienced enough to fight on level terms with the French. Of course, once a few enemy towns have been sacked, and the populace robbed, there should be no problem in funding the invasions.

I also intend to strengthen the Ducal armies by merging smaller forces into them, thus allowing them sufficient men to deal with any threat.

Duke Ulrich bows, and walks towards the Swabian chambers.

[OverKnight]

Gunther furrows his brow and speaks:

Speaking for my master I welcome you to the race Duke Hummel.

So the French are a major threat because of their castles, but we can invade them because we are a match for them with our current forces? I am confused Duke Hummel. Are we weaker or stronger than them? If we are stronger than why is this needed?

A defensive posture was voted for by this august body for a reason. True, my Duke supports the taking of Ragusa, but this would shorten our borders, not stretch them out as the Duke of Swabia would have us do.

Would you abandon the Crusade so quickly my lord? By your words you support it, but your actions would forsake it.

[Stuperman]

Gerhard Steffen:

I balk at the Idea that massive campaigns be undertaken againts other CHRISTIAN NATIONS whilst a majority of our Most Capable generals are away fighting infidels for our salvation. Surely such warlike actions would eventually be the undoing of the HRE!

Gerhard, visably upset searches for a beer and heads outside for some air

[Warluster]

The Prinz stands

I fully support your run for Chancellor... Duke Ulrich.

And now to other matters.


Listen to yuorselves, you sound like hired whiners! 'Could be the undoing of the HRE' that is somethign which will happen eventually. All great Empires have to fall eventually!

I say we attack now and get the lands which we need to support oursleves, why is these comments Count Steffen of our most capable generals away? Yes most our, but it is about time we got more great generals! Don't rely on your superiors, don't think you are bad compared to them, as one day you will have to stand in the spotlight of the Reich!

So I say crack 'em now and get out the yoke, then let it dry!

Prinz Jobst sits, shakign his head

[OverKnight]

A messenger rushes into the Diet and hands Gunther a letter. After reviewing the contents, Gunther reads the contents to the Diet:

Electors, I have spent much time trying to figure a way out of our current Papal Impasse.

The Empire has great influence in the College of Cardinals with three votes, but the other powers of Europe have shown they will not vote for an Imperial candidate. The late Kaiser Heinrich's plan is flawed and will not work without a great deal of bloodshed.

Yet for those calling for negotiations with the current Pope, I would remind you that Chancellor Leopold has already tried the same approach. Even if we gave them all our florins and a few territories, I doubt Filippus would agree to peace. The price might be so high, we would be unable, even if willing, to pay it.

Yet, there might be a third way, something we haven't tried yet. We have one remaining ally in the Catholic Realms, Sicily. We have stood by each other resolutely through the years. If the opportunity comes, why not vote for a Sicilian Cardinal as Pope?

At best we will be reconciled, at worst we will have greatly improved our standing with a new Pope.

A Sicilian Cardinal, Niccolo Amocacci, currently stands 6th in the College. He is a missionary near Tunis. I'm sure his work makes him a rising star in the Church. We could have the opportunity to elevate him, the time it takes would depend on the approach the Diet adopts toward the current Pope. Still he is 53, so we can't wait too long.

This is not a vague promise or a rhetorical smoke screen, I offer a new way to gain peace and reconciliation for the Reich, I ask that you let me achieve it.

[Ituralde]

Dukes of the Reich, Counts and Electors

He dips a small bow toward Jobst

Mein Prince,

Should no other candidates for Chancellor step forward and declare their intentions, I will support Duke Otto von Kassel in the upcoming election.
His proposals meet well with my own intentions for the Empire and would be a successful continuation of my politics.

Many here have rightfully made out the biggest challenge that the next Chancellor will face: Reconciliation or at least peace with the Papacy. It is a must that this is adressed and considered thoroughly by this Diet. It seems through my previous experiences with the Papacy that diplomatic negotaions are doomed to fail. Which would lead to war being the only option we have. I have to agree with Conrad Salier though that this atrocity should not be continued in the future. We can not have peace by alienating every Christian in the world, by slaying their mortal representatives.

We have to figure out a way out of this misery and I don't believe in any of the solutions proposed here so far. Aside from the long time goal to train and educate more Priests. I will gladly offer the new Theologians Guild in Budapest for the training of our men of faith.
We can not give everything we have to the Pope as Edict 7.3 asks. I have talked to Pope Fillipus and there is no appeasing him. For him I would believe the process masked out in Edict 7.2 to be appropriate. I would second this Edict if it were ammended to only deal with Pope Fillipus.
If the Papacy had its will we would be loosing half of Italy, before they would consider peace, and that will still not reconcile us. The thought of a Papacy, strenghtened with our lands, standing at the head of a Christian alliance against us, makes me shudder. We can not blindly offer the Pope what he wants.

I once again like to put the topic of Rome on the table. I have said in the last Diet that it was unrightfully taken from the Papacy and I for one would not be opposed to giving it back to them. Maybe this would appease them more than any other city we could offer them. I knew the stance of my father Emperor Heinrich, but I don't yet know the stance of my brother Emperor Henry on this matter.

My support for Duke von Kassel not only stems from our identical political agendas, but I also wish to prevent Ulrich Hümmel from ascending to the post of Chancellor. I respect him as a man and as a capable general and Duke of Swabia, but his proposals are ludicrous.

Believe me gentlemen, I have defended our border for the last years now and we are thin stretched. If there had been but one more attack, just one more decisive move by our enemies much would have been lost. It was nothing but luck that saved us, when the Portugese retreated after Frankfurt and Magdeburg stood open to their conquest. It was luck when the French retreated half-way from Genoa, which would have left the choice to defend two out of the three following, Genoa, Rome or Venice. It was luck that the Venetians diverted their war efforts south against the Byzantines instead of taking Zagreb, or the Hungarians calling off the siege of Vienna.
The next Chancellor will have to face as much hardships as I faced or more and we can not count on luck to defend our people. We need a solid defense. We can't have our armies running off into enemy territories to leave our heartland undefended. Already our armies have to cover two to three settlements, which rely on them for their defense. If we blindly add more settlements this task would become nigh impossible.
As a last thought, I would like to ask Ulrich Hümmel which army is supposed to attack France? The Swabian Household Army is holed up in Dijon hardly able to control its populace. We should deal with our internal problems first, before casting eager glances to the lands of our neighbours, which we can not hold on to.

The only expansion we should pursue are strategic consolidations that were mentioned by Duke von Kassel. Breslau and Marseille are a top priority and Ragusa is also worth considering. Every other expansion can not be undertaken and should not be undertaken!

[OverKnight]

Gunther stands and bows to Duke Leopold:

My master would thank you for your support. I think it is within the instructions he gave me to change the wording of the Edict:

Edict 7.2: If peace talks fail with Pope Filippus after a good faith negotiation is made (Florence and at least 5,000 florins are offered), the Diet authorizes the Chancellor to assault the Papal army and then seek peace with the newly elected Pontiff.

I hope this serves as a compromise.

[Ituralde]

I second Edict 7.2.

[FactionHeir]

*A shady creature attempts to enter the diet but is held back by the guards outside. After a long exchange of words, he is finally let in.*

Great nobles, the Count of Bern has given me instructions to deliver in accordance to his plans....he supports the disposal of the warmongering pope and any others that follow if they are not reasonable. If an edict as such as not been proposed, he erm.. wishes to announce a new one or call for amendment of a current one to read *reads off a scroll*
"The Diet authorizes the Chancellor to assault the Filippus' army and then seek peace with the newly elected Pontiff. If that one is as unreasonable as the previous one, refusing to reconcile us in diplomacy, he shall be disposed of as well, until a German pope is elected."

He will also support anyone standing for chancellor that shares his views on that matter and that there should be some, but limited expansion to the extent of the empire. *looks around* I'm not sure who that would be, but that's what he said...

Now err he mentioned I would be paid for my services by the steward of Swabia....?

OOC: Hans has traits Cheapskate and Miserly :D

[Ignoramus]

Duke Ulrich rises with annoyance clearly written on his face.

Duke of Austria, whether by accident or by design, you appear to have forgotten that I am one of the four Dukes of the Reich now, and as such am entitled to be called so.

As to your concerns about our borders, I can explain easily how they can be fixed.

If we continue to stand on the defensive we will be defeated. For years the frontier has not been shifted west. Even the murder of Sigismund der Stolze, the bastion of Chivalry, went unavenged. Not one French town or castle has been taken to avenge him. And you talk of defence? I would have thought you held more respect for one such Sigismund.

We must invade France if we are to maintain our current frontiers. Until we sack Paris, and cripple Toulouse, we shall be unsuccessful.

I am ashamed that I must continually lose men for no purpose. The Swabians are sick and tired of dying without having a chance to take the fight to the enemy.

Duke Ulrich resumes his seat.