Imperial Diet IV

[AussieGiant]

Arnold

Agreed but both houses involved can be regarded as biased. Both would prefer the Kaiser to be from their house.

Scherer is away, Hans is steward and Wolfgang has been nominated as Swabia's representative.

He needs to vote.

[Stig]

Let me put it like this:
This is an official Council, in it's views are objective, not subjective. I take it that Hummel will do all he can to be objective as well. If he isn't that's his problem, that will mean we might get a vote by all Electors, and from the last vote we've seen that most seem to support my little brother.

[Privateerkev]

Your right Ansehelm. I guess all we can do at this point is wait. And drink while waiting. Well, we could argue while waiting. But, I rather drink while waiting.

says this with a slight smile.

[TinCow]

*Lothar cocks an eyebrow at Jan once again.*

If Wolfgang Hummel has a material interest in this matter because he has openly expressed support for Count Hans, then surely every person who has openly expressed support for Kaiser Siegfried also has a material interest in it. Following that line of reasoning, it would appear that the only men competent to sit on this council are those who did not express any opinion on the matter whatsoever. I note with irony that that currently includes only myself and the King of Outremer.

[Stig]

Actually Lothar both you and Herr Salier expressed support for the Kaiser in this Diet, I suggest going back through the notes.

[Privateerkev]

Lothar, I do agree that everyone but you and the King have voted for a specific person. But, the rest of us have not attempted to lead revolutions against the Kaiser as Hummel has clearly done. I did not think we would get so desperate for a Swabian delegate, that we would let a failed revolutionary vote on whether the man he tried to revolt against should stay in power. I know we are out of options but I am kind of depressed that we are out of options.

I need coffee...

And Ansehelm, Lothar has stated a few times that he supports who the law will say is Kaiser. While I might not agree with his stance, I have found him to be ideologically consistent.

[TinCow]

Ansehelm, yes, I proclaimed my loyalty to Kaiser Siegfried, as he is the sitting Kaiser. I will always be loyal to the sitting Kaiser, whoever that may be. I have not, however, expressed any opinion as to whether he or Hans holds a better claim to the throne.

Jan, I suggest you concern yourself more with the affairs of your own House, rather than trying to interfere in the manner in which Swabia is run.

[Privateerkev]

I am concerned with matters concerning my own house. My father and uncle are going to pass soon. This makes me sad. But, I have no problem with how Swabia is run. The Duke would be the best choice to have on this council but he is busy. I am simply concerned that a man who attempted to lead an armed insurrection against a sitting Kaiser is now allowed to decide the fate of that Kaiser. With all due respect Count Lothar, I will decide which affairs I will concern myself with. We are in the Diet and we are supposed to concern ourselves with all of the Reich, not just one or two regions.

Now where is that coffee...

[AussieGiant]

Arnold

As much as I find it concerning that Wolfgang is now the Swabian representative, I'd like to point out that he is hardly going to decide the fate of the Kaiser by himself.

He has one vote representing Swabia. That's all.

[Privateerkev]

Thats true. I'm just voicing my concern and opinion. I'm not saying the sky is falling or anything. The irony of the whole situation both fills me with dread and makes me chuckle.

[AussieGiant]

Sure, this is the same man who has reportedly come out in open rebellion against the sitting Kaiser.

It's a little mad...but nothing like being in battle.

[Privateerkev]

In some ways being in battle is easier. Things are more clear. There is a definite "other" to define and then take action against. This stuff gets confusing but I think I'm figuring it out a little...

[Cecil XIX]

On another note...

If Han's evidence is to presented to the council via proxy, how is Kaiser Siegfried to defend himself? Will he be given a transcript of the evidence, and the discussion surrounding it? Will he be allowed to speak to Hans and the council personally concerning the matter? It is essential to the legitimacy of this council that Kaiser Siegfried is able to see all the evidence against him and face his accuser.

[Privateerkev]

While I agree in spirit, Duke Arnold has made clear that this is not a court of law. CA 11.1 allowed for the set up of a Duke Council. How they run it, is largely up to them. To me, it will be legitimate if Kaiser Siegfried excepts what ever the outcome is.

[Stig]

I suggest that Count Hans brings forth the evidence he has here in this Diet, would the Council not agree and a vote be held by all Electors it might be usefull. Next to that I think that the entire Reich wants to know what Count Hans will bring forth to support his cause.

[Tamur]

Fritz follows the turns of the debate while fingering the cross hanging on a light chain around his neck. As conversation quiets, he sniffs and leans back in his chair.

I think it may be the case that Jan -- with the keen eye I've often heard of -- has penetrated to the heart of a grave matter. It is all legitimate if Kaiser Siegfried accepts the outcome of the council.

Of course, I've known Siegfried for years as a brother and would never suspect him of turning his back on the decision of the council. But fellow members, we are speaking of the greatest nation on earth, and the direct inheritance of the Roman Empire. One has only to look back in history to see where such strife as we have here can lead.

Fritz quietly clears his throat, calls over a scribe, then leaves the room.

[Privateerkev]

Jan smiles broadly at seeing his cousin for the first time in many years.

I was wondering when Fritz was finally going to get active in politics. I wish my own brother and brothers-in-law would take his example.

[AussieGiant]

Arnold

My Lords,

I'm aware this is a little difficult as all of you are not involved.

I can assure you the Dukes, the King and the proxies are handling this is very well.

Without meaning to be rude...

"someone scoff's at this rather loudly in the Diet Chamber"

....AS I SAID, without meaning to be rude, this is not a Roman Senate from 300BC.

Hans,

again, I urge you to present the information you have as soon as possible.

[Privateerkev]

Jan reads the results of the Dukes Council

My Kaiser, King, Dukes, Counts, and Electors,

First off I want to thank the Duke Council for their service in these troubled times. They have made hard decisions with little evidence very fast and under pressure to produce a result. They are to be commended.

Second, I am pleased with the findings of the Dukes Council. However, and this leads me to my third point;

I am afraid that Edict 11.9 was quite explicit in requiring all Dukes to agree. Now that one has not, I believe it will activate. Which means that the Diet Speaker should set up a poll for the Diet to vote on regarding succession. If I am wrong in my interpretation of the law, then some one please let me know. Otherwise, it looks like this is not over yet.

I do not want there to be any doubt as to who is Kaiser. And I am afraid that if we refuse to activate Edict 11.9, then that one Duke, and those who agree with him will have ammunition to sow doubt in the minds of the rest of the electors. We need to put this fully behind us for good gentlemen.

Thank you.

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: Thank you, Duke Arnold.

As Kaiser Siegfried proposed Edict 11.9, I believe he would wish it to come into play at this point given that one Duke, or their proxy on the Council, does not support his coronation.

The scribes will draft a simple vote on the status of Kaiser Siegfried for all Diet members shortly.

[Ignoramus]

A Swabian page enters the Diet.

"Mein lords, mein lord, Wolfgang Hummel, urges you to vote for Count Hans as Kaiser. He is the true heir, being directly descended from the late Kaiser Henry.

Jobst was crowned Kaiser because he was Sigismund der Stolze's adopted son and heir. Sigismund, in turn, was Henry's heir before his sons came of age.

Siegfried, however, has no blood-right or legititmate claim save that he says that Kaiser Jobst made him his heir as he lay dying. Kaiser Jobst had no authority to appoint his heir, so that point is duly invalid.

Noble electors, choose conscience above profit!

The page bows and leaves the Diet.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

*shaking silently*

You fool...

It was Kaiser Henry's wish that the crown passed out of his family's hands; after what happened with his father and the close call with him, who can blame him? But instead, you make us look weak. You make us look like doddering old fools to the world, who can't even pick a leader! It is clear that Kaiser Siegfried has the majority of votes; your defection changes nothing! All it does is needlessly drag out this issue further! Surely you recognize it!

[Privateerkev]

Wow, I thought I was the only one that could make the King that mad...


Well, at least when this is over, its over. And we can get on with the business of governing. I am still stunned in utter shock that the same man who lead a fizzled revolution, was able to vote on the Duke Council. Is this man even allowed back in Germany? I hear he is traveling back to go to Swabian lands. Isn't he and his pages still banned from the Diet? Who even let that page in?

Oh I can't wait till this is settled...

[Stig]

Ansehelm comes walking into the Diet after being at the Ducal Council

I suggest that Wolfgang goes into hiding, purely to protect himself. I've got an army heading for Moscow, but I don't care visiting the Hummel family castle on the way.

Hans has no evidence of being the real Kaiser, he only threatened he would bring some, but where is it? No where.
On the other hand, my little brother has loads of evidence. Kaiser Jobst last letter, Dieter and about 200 others who fought in Jobst's last battle.

[FactionHeir]

OOC: I only just manged to get online, which might be somewhat late, but I just wrote out the followiung PM:

IC:
My lords.

The evidence is as follows:
Dieter von Darmstadt who presented both the letter/will of Jobst and said he was the only one other than Jobst who knew of Siegfried to be his heir is a traitor to the empire and as such his words are naught but conspiracy.

Let me explain.
I have run several investigations during my own chancellorship and during the last diet session on his involvement in the Danish incident and with several living witnesses, among them Jobsts former right hand and Dieters accomplice as well as my own agents who had been investigating and a survivor of Jobsts bodyguard, who with their stories together draw the the following picture:

Dieter had bribed using Hugo, the Danish rebels in the crusading army to take the side path in the forests near Frankfurt (or was it Metz, OOC) lightly armed to attack another bribed German scouting force of Jobsts army to lead to the greater battle. Earlier, a man who seems another of Dieters accomplices brought Jobst a letter allegedly from Henry to tell him of the side path and to move there without giving a reason.

The battle was supposed to be Jobsts doom as he was outnumbered and only through skill and luck did he actually survive. With that plan failed, DIeter arranged for French agents later to ambush Jobst on a hunting trip and before the last survivor could spill any evidence, he was shot down by Dieter who was nowhere to be seen during the ambush battle.

There you have 2 pieces of evidence that Dieter wanted to have Jobst dead for some reason but Jobst for some reason was not aware of it due to his subterfuge. Taking his accomplice prisoner and interrogating other invovled members as above, netted this web of conspiracy Dieter plotted.

Also, there are reports of pistol murders recently of men who were of foreign descent, and knowing that guns are rare, and the above information, it is easy to conclude that Dieter wanted them silenced.

Now as for Siegfrieds claim, the bodyguard of Jobst confirmed that Jobst did in no way mention Siegfrieds name when he died, but nearby troops thought that he did because Dieter raised Siegfrieds hand.

Also, once Siegfried dispatched himself to the diet with no evidence, and Dieter arrived many days later, it is very likely that Dieter, who had access to Jobsts chambers and posessions being his right hand and "trusted aide" found Jobsts will and forged it to his liking to create some evidence for Siegfried and to draw away attention from himself.
As you can conveniently see in the will, Dieter would follow the new emperor around and seeing how Siegfried is so young, inexperienced and was not knighted by Jobst even for the earlier battles, it was Dieters plan to elevate unsuspecting Siegfried through this chain of unfortunate events in the recent battles to the position of emperor and himself to the puppet master.

There is no valid evidence thus backing up Siegfrieds claim other than soldiers incorrect hearsay, and the will/letter that is likely forged by Dieter who had access to all of Jobsts posessions.

If you require, I will let to interrogate my witnesses personally.
They include: Athalwolf, Jobsts bodyguard member
Hugo von Heidelberg, accomplice of Dieter von Darmstadt
Luka, Jobsts pagan magician and former right hand
Adolf der Bartige, spy in Imperial services during my chancellorship on confiential mission
Dietrich von Hamburg, low council official investigating the battle scene

This should make Siegfried abdicate, I believe, as there is thus no rightful claim to the unlikely event of the young, unexperienced, fourth son of Gunther to the throne.

Steward Hans of Swabia

[Stig]

Wait wait wait wait wait. All you do is say why little Siegfried has no claim to the throne. But why would you have?
Next to that why would I believe you?

You accuse Dieter of something very serious, it's simply you against him, and you think you'll win because you are the Count and he isn't.
Look at the votes, it's 10 to 1. Only that idiot Hummel decided to vote against Siegfried, be wise and don't throw away your career over this matter.

If what you say is right Siegfried has no right to the thrown, but who has? No-one actually, which leaves you in a position to claim it, doesn't it?
You won't get that far, simply because the Diet seems to be on Siegfried side, not on the side of a sad Swabian, hungry for power.

[Warluster]

Dieter stands

I am overly offended of being accused of these things.

It seems, Count Hans, you are trying to attack me.

Dieter looks around, laughing

Is not that enough? Why go for me, is there something you wisht os ahre mein lord? Hm? I own no guns, and you can search my hmabers many times. And as for killing, I have only killed a man in battle.

But let me say, bring forth a witness, I say? Nothing, nothing, can prove it!! And as for the letters, why don't you prove there real, rather than talk about it!

Lukas, Lukas was blinded most of the time. He only saw him, and his rise to supposed glory. Hugo, Hugo? WHo is he I ask!? And as for the rest, low council members, you must've done a lot of researching, or thinking, as I am aure these people do not exsist!

Do I need to prove anythoing more?

[FactionHeir]

While some may question why most my evidence is aimed at Dieter, the simple fact is that Dieter is the only one who bears anything remotely considered to be evidence for SIegfrieds claim. There is no other reliable source that proclaims Siegfried Jobsts heir other than Dieter and his forged will.

Thus, I bring you, my witnesses.
*Hans claps his hands and Adalberth opens the doors to the diet*
Hans' witnesses enter the diet, all alive and even Hugo relatively unscathed. Hugo, upon seeing Dieter, immediately points his finger at him and cries "That's him, he set me up for all of it, he was the mastermind behind all those plans to get the emperor Jobst!"

I believe my lords wish to interrogate my witnesses and ask them questions? Please do. It seems that all Dieter has is a piece of forged writing and no living witness to back up its truthfulness while I have many who all agree that he is a traitor.

To Ansehelm:
Of course, the vote is against me, but only because I was hindered from presenting my evidence to the council in time - which is why I presented it now, on the diet floor, for all to hear.
As for what would make me claim the throne? While I may not have some forged writing proclaiming me to be the emperor, I do have bloodright, which is what our empire has gone by for many centuries as a tradition.

[AussieGiant]

Arnold

All I've got is a he said this, and he said that. It's one mans word against another mans word. How do you expect us to make a decision on that?

And your blood right is what exactly Hans?

Can you please state that?

[Stig]

You have bloodright Hans, because that's what we've been using for centuries?
Remember that we decend from the Great Franks. According to their laws everything should be distributed under all male sons of the father, you don't want that do you?