Finally got KOTOR

[Navaros]

if you want to STRICTLY compare graphics compre to games such as Far Cry and Doom 3 where KOTOR comes outbadly

BUT ull notice both far cry and doom 3 are 3d shooters where graphics are always pushing where as a RPG DOESNT need to be tip top - the Graphics in most RPGs are Average and always will be just like the Graphics in most RTS - you dont buy a RPG to look at the prety monsters you buy it to play a story (something most 3d shooters couldnt find with a barge pole)

you could jump well below the Far Cry and Doom 3 graphical bar and still come up with 5-year-old titles that have better-looking 3D character models in them than KOTOR does (i'm talking about form/shape/depth and proportional scale to the in-game environment etc., not textural detail)

i agree that graphics in RPGs are not the most important thing. i'm only arguing this point cuz some guys in this thread don't seem to notice the discrepancies in KOTOR's graphics and are hailing them as being great even tho when compared to industry standards before and at the time of KOTOR's release, they are not so great after all.

[DisruptorX]

you could jump well below the Far Cry and Doom 3 graphical bar and still come up with 5-year-old titles that have better-looking 3D character models in them than KOTOR does (i'm talking about form/shape/depth and proportional scale to the in-game environment etc., not textural detail)

I'm really trying to not sound like an ass here, but for someone who "knows" graphics, you are displaying a great deal of ignorance.

Here, let me pull of couple of games that were state of the art 4-5 years ago out of a hat:
Soldier of Fortune
Deus Ex

Neither of those games have 3d models with fingers, so your argument is dead already.

There is no opinion here, the character models in those games look primitive and goofy compared to kotor, as do the character models in Morrowind (it has the best environments i've ever seen though), which came out in 2002.

Of course, poly count and shape have nothing to do with how good a game looks. You are confusing asthetics and technology, two very different things. The environments in Morrowind look much better than those in Doom 3 from an asthetic point of view, but one cannot argue that they look better from a technological point of view.

This of course is moot, as Kotor is amazing from both. Your argument appears to be: "low poly count = bad graphics". Correct me if you feel I misrepresented you.

[Navaros]

Neither of those games have 3d models with fingers, so your argument is dead already.

the fingers in KOTOR are not much better. if memory serves, all the female characters use the exact same fingers and "finger gestures". they just gave the hands a different "skin" for each one.

it's cool the first time you see an unimportant Twi'Lek girl do a "finger gesture". then when you start seeing that exact same gesture done by Bastila, Bastila's mom, Mission etc. etc. - it becomes quite clear that "fingers" are certainly not a strong point for KOTOR

i'm not really a "techical" guy when it comes to knowing things like why KOTOR's graphics like so "off". i just know that they do indeed look "off" and much more visually 'immerseful' 3D characters exist in just about any other 3D game, even ones released way before KOTOR

[amir]

KotOR is a great game, cant wait to KotOR 2.
but it has only one problem: its too damn short!!!
but beside that its the best RPG i ever played, also have you finish it?
if not i can tell you the game secret

***SPOILER**************

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

YOU ARE REVAN

***SPOILER*****************













i love spoiling!

EDIT: We have spoiler tags on this forum, please use them.

[BDC]

It was a tad linear...

[Xiahou]

(oooooo... thread necromancy )

The thread title seemed very appropriate since I finally got KotoR almost 2 weeks ago, after seeing it for $15, and have since played through and won the game with a Lightside/male character. I liked it, but I thought the ending was a bit disappointing. I would've liked a little more resolution with some of the chacters- what of the Sith characters that I turned to the light? What about the Bastila romance? ect.... All we get in the ending is just a medal-pinning scene.

Anyhow, I'm thinking of eventually going through the game again as a darkside/female. Will this cover most of the remaining content that I haven't seen? Also, how does the sequel stack up, since it's now in the <$20 range as well. I heard it was half-finished, but mods are available to restore unused content.

I know a lot of people hear played the game, so any info would be great.

[discovery1]

(oooooo... thread necromancy )

The thread title seemed very appropriate since I finally got KotoR almost 2 weeks ago, after seeing it for $15, and have since played through and won the game with a Lightside/male character. I liked it, but I thought the ending was a bit disappointing. I would've liked a little more resolution with some of the chacters- what of the Sith characters that I turned to the light? What about the Bastila romance? ect.... All we get in the ending is just a medal-pinning scene.

Anyhow, I'm thinking of eventually going through the game again as a darkside/female. Will this cover most of the remaining content that I haven't seen? Also, how does the sequel stack up, since it's now in the <$20 range as well. I heard it was half-finished, but mods are available to restore unused content.

I know a lot of people hear played the game, so any info would be great.

KOTOR 2 is a must get. And I can tell you what happens to the Bastila romance, since its explained in #2, although the more subtle points aren't really cleared up except in the broadest way possible.

[Fragony]

Man my haircut what was I thinking back then

[econ21]

Anyhow, I'm thinking of eventually going through the game again as a darkside/female. Will this cover most of the remaining content that I haven't seen?

I don't know - I couldn't do it. I've read some of the evil things you can do and I like the good party members too much to contemplate doing them.

To be honest, I think Kotor struggles in terms of replay value despite being an outstanding game.

Also, how does the sequel stack up, since it's now in the <$20 range as well. I heard it was half-finished, but mods are available to restore unused content.

Well, I noticed in the favorite games thread that you praise Vampire Bloodlines so you may share my tilt. I thought Kotor2 was excellent - like Bloodlines, it has a much darker mood than kotor1 and is more adult. Just firing up either game and hearing the ominous background music on the game menus sucks me into the respective game worlds. It's sort of like Empire Strikes Back to Kotor1's A New Hope. I think it also has more replay value, in part because there is quite a bit of extra content hidden away with the influence system. I found the sidequests and planets are generally more interesting than in kotor1. The combat is way too easy though. The rushed ending never bothered me - in fact, I think it allowed my imagination more room to play and made the game story prey more on my mind in a way no other game has except System Shock 2.

Bloodlines and kotor2 are my favorite two CRPGs since the glory days of FO2, BG2 and SS2. (Iron law of gaming #2: All great CRPGS must be sequels).

[Xiahou]

I don't know - I couldn't do it. I've read some of the evil things you can do and I like the good party members too much to contemplate doing them.

Yeah, me too. The main draw for a darkside character is to use all the dark powers. Having played lightside first, I don't really relish being a **** to (and in some cases, killing) all the characters that I got to know previously.

I thought combat was pretty easy in Kotor1 too. I chose a Jedi guardian with flurry, jedi speed, dual wield, ect and after a few levels in as a jedi the only challenge I faced at all was Malak at the very end. When I fought Malak on the Leviathan, I was totally destroying him- so you can imagine my confusion when Bastila stepped in to "save" me...

And I can tell you what happens to the Bastila romance, since its explained in #2, although the more subtle points aren't really cleared up except in the broadest way possible.

Well, I think I know more or less what's supposed to transpire leading up to the sequel- you go off to fight some unknown menace and disappear, leaving everyone else behind. Is that what you mean, or is there more to it?

Regardless, it sounds like KotoR2 will be well worth the $20 price of admission. To play through it, are the various content mods a 'necessity', or does it stand well enough on it's own?

[Warmaster Horus]

I completely agree with getting the sequel. The comparison is good too: it's Empire Stikes Back to KotOR's New Hope. Just the first environment (which I won't tell you about) shows how "darker" this game is.

There is a mod that's supposed to bring unused content back in the game, but it's not finished yet. There's a link in the KotOR thread (sorry, forgot it).

[Ironside]

Regardless, it sounds like KotoR2 will be well worth the $20 price of admission. To play through it, are the various content mods a 'necessity', or does it stand well enough on it's own?

Stands well on it's own. It's parts of the "endgame" that feels butchered, not the ending itself (although it's intentionally vague in some ways).

Still I never got one point of the ending:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

How did Kreia see the "death of the force" in you (the Exile)? I mean compared to the force draining bad guys you don't really do any harm. You seem to rather do a draining on already dead people and possibly empowering them close to you.
But well, I'm not certain that I got the nature of the force in the Exile.

[econ21]

Ironside (I don't think Xiahou should read these spoilers!):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I think the Exile is so traumatised by the destruction of Malachor V that he somehow cuts himself off from the Force. It is that severance of life from the Force which Kreia wants to emulate on a massive scale, causing the death of the Force.

All that is masked and somewhat muddled by the game which, in effect, is the Exile reforging his links with the Force - quite the opposite of what Kreia wants. But at the start of the game, he is supposed to be dead to it - which is what freaks out the Jedi Council; makes Darth Nihilus powerless against him; and attracts Kreia to him.

But don't ask me for much more than that - looking for rationality in fantasy such as Star Wars is kind of missing the point.

[Craterus]

These games on the PS2, or PC only?

[econ21]

They are Xbox and PC, I believe.

[Proletariat]

Definitely grab Kotor 2, X-man. I loved it so much it kicked off a bit of a Star Wars bender and I bought Stars Wars: Best of the PC (kinda blows, but it had a few fun games for a weekend's worth of excitement.)

Thanks to both Simon and your's extolling, I went and got Vampire Bloodlines, and you guys were exactly right about it. I can't believe I waited so long to check it out.

[Xiahou]

Definitely grab Kotor 2, X-man. I loved it so much it kicked off a bit of a Star Wars bender and I bought Stars Wars: Best of the PC (kinda blows, but it had a few fun games for a weekend's worth of excitement.)

Already ordered it on Amazon- should be in tomorrow.

Thanks to both Simon and your's extolling, I went and got Vampire Bloodlines, and you guys were exactly right about it. I can't believe I waited so long to check it out.

Glad you like it- definitely one of the better PC games in recent memory. I probably could still sit down and play through it again.

[Xiahou]

Ok. So I finally finished KotoR2. I'd say the storyline felt a bit more mature than its prequel, but the end was once again something of a letdown for me. The Ebon Hawk flies off into the distance- that's it? You allies' backstories also seemed to fall apart at the end, leaving a lot of questions. Finally, the Disciple?? Man did he feel tacked on.

Also, Nar Shadaa seemed very buggy for me. Several quests were impossible for me to complete- eventually, I checked gamefaqs to make sure I was doing them right- I was, but they would not complete anyhow.

Don't get me wrong though, it was a very good game- certainly well worth the $20 I paid for it. Just the few gripes I mentioned kept me from being completely satisfied with it.

[econ21]

...but the end was once again something of a letdown for me. The Ebon Hawk flies off into the distance- that's it?

The end apparently was rushed/incomplete and has been widely criticised. Personally, it did not bother me much. I thought the Oderon/Telos/Ravager finales were very satisfying. What came after was narratively weak (although in terms of combat provided about the only challenge of the game on hard). But I found the finale conversation with Kreia provided a lot of closure. Maybe I have replayed it so much, the story now seems fairly coherent.

You allies' backstories also seemed to fall apart at the end, leaving a lot of questions.

Did you make them all Jedis (or almost all)? That was rather satisfying. The epilogues were not great, although I liked some (Canderous, Mira).

Finally, the Disciple?? Man did he feel tacked on.

I've always played as a male and so he has barely registered. I imagine Handmaiden is a better companion (she joins males; Disciple joins females) - rather well integrated into the story (interesting relations with Kreia - "Betrayal!" - and Visas) and a formiddable fighter.

Also, Nar Shadaa seemed very buggy for me.

Yeah, I had to reload Nar Shadaa several times in, having to redo several hours. What quests were buggy? For me, failing to remove the two Exchange thugs in the entrance to the refugee sector caused me to fail a lucrative (ie lightsaber reward) quest. Some quests close once you get past a certain point. But I did the fun ones. (Not too bothered if I can't fix a landspeeder).

Don't get me wrong though, it was a very good game- certainly well worth the $20 I paid for it. Just the few gripes I mentioned kept me from being completely satisfied with it.

You may enjoy coming back to it in a year or so (or if the fans finish their mod to add cut content). I find it more replayable than Kotor - perhaps partly because it leaves you not completely satisfied. I always feel there is more to it than there you get on one run through, thanks to the influence system and the rushed/incoherent parts of the story.

[Xiahou]

I've always played as a male and so he has barely registered. I imagine Handmaiden is a better companion (she joins males; Disciple joins females) - rather well integrated into the story (interesting relations with Kreia - "Betrayal!" - and Visas) and a formiddable fighter.

I think I lost out by playing as a female, I think the Handmaiden would've been a much better character. I won KotoR1 as a light-side male guardian, so I thought I'd mix it up and play 2 as a light-side female consular.

Yeah, I had to reload Nar Shadaa several times in, having to redo several hours. What quests were buggy? For me, failing to remove the two Exchange thugs in the entrance to the refugee sector caused me to fail a lucrative (ie lightsaber reward) quest. Some quests close once you get past a certain point. But I did the fun ones. (Not too bothered if I can't fix a landspeeder).

Not killing the thugs was one of them. I talked to their leader and convinced him to let up on the refugees, but that apparently wasn't good enough for that quest and the thugs had become un-killable afterwards.

The most glaring was the quest to secure passage for a family off the planet. Once the orbiting ship was dealt with and freighters were free to leave again, I easily completed the quest where you have to get a pilot sponsored for his license. However, when speaking to the exact same dock master about getting the family passage, he would tell me there was nothing he could do while ships were still being high-jacked.

Also, minor bugs, like bounty hunters you've recruited/killed were still standing around on the planet after the fact.

You may enjoy coming back to it in a year or so (or if the fans finish their mod to add cut content). I find it more replayable than Kotor - perhaps partly because it leaves you not completely satisfied. I always feel there is more to it than there you get on one run through, thanks to the influence system and the rushed/incoherent parts of the story.

If team Gizka ever releases their mod, I'm definitely planning on checking it out again.

[econ21]

I think I lost out by playing as a female, I think the Handmaiden would've been a much better character. I won KotoR1 as a light-side male guardian, so I thought I'd mix it up and play 2 as a light-side female consular.

I'd recommend a male sentinel if you ever do replay it. In Kotor2, skills are very useful. I am not quite sure about the "romantic" dialogue and how it relates to your character's sex, but some of the conversation with Visas and Handmaiden had an enjoyable batsqueak of sexuality - much like the flirting with Bastilla in Kotor1. It was a little embarassing clicking through it with my son watching over my shoulder, but we both had a chuckle at the "Jedi sex" scene with Visas (the protagonist and her sitting across the room, meditating).

[Mailman653]

I saw the game on Steam for $9.99 and figured I'd give a try since I've seen many threads in various places with mostly praise for the game. I would of prefered to get it on console but you can't beat the price of the Steam version.

[Beskar]

Ironside (I don't think Xiahou should read these spoilers!):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I think the Exile is so traumatised by the destruction of Malachor V that he somehow cuts himself off from the Force. It is that severance of life from the Force which Kreia wants to emulate on a massive scale, causing the death of the Force.

All that is masked and somewhat muddled by the game which, in effect, is the Exile reforging his links with the Force - quite the opposite of what Kreia wants. But at the start of the game, he is supposed to be dead to it - which is what freaks out the Jedi Council; makes Darth Nihilus powerless against him; and attracts Kreia to him.

But don't ask me for much more than that - looking for rationality in fantasy such as Star Wars is kind of missing the point.

Just to say, your spoilers were incorrect.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The events on Malachor V caused a void in the force with your character, which makes your character lose its connection. With Kreia's guidance, your character re-forges your links by using the force energy of others, like your party members to fuel your connection. What freaked out the Jedi council is that you are this abomination, and thus why they try to cut your connections with the force. Darth Nihilus is powerless because Darth Nihilus is exactly the same, except Darth Nihilus became consumed by this void, this in essence, dead, and just sucks on the force of everything. Kreia wanted your character to be her replacement.

[Monk]

Just to say, your spoilers were incorrect.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The events on Malachor V caused a void in the force with your character, which makes your character lose its connection. With Kreia's guidance, your character re-forges your links by using the force energy of others, like your party members to fuel your connection. What freaked out the Jedi council is that you are this abomination, and thus why they try to cut your connections with the force. Darth Nihilus is powerless because Darth Nihilus is exactly the same, except Darth Nihilus became consumed by this void, this in essence, dead, and just sucks on the force of everything. Kreia wanted your character to be her replacement.

Reading the spoilers from the KOTOR 2 plot reminds me of just how good that game could have been, alas for completely buggy games!

[Beskar]

I forgot an very important aspect, spoiler wise.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Kreia wanted to use you to kill the force.

[Jolt]

KOTOR is a pretty awesome game. What I hated the most were those malfunctioning droids in Tatooine. Probably due to some bug in my game, if they exploded they always made a very loud and creepy noise that scared me.

[Monk]

After this thread got ressurected it got me thinking about how long it's been since I played through KOTOR. So i reinstalled it on my desktop but ran into a huge problem, its the same problem that I had with MTW. The nvidia gforce 9 series does not play well with KOTOR, more specifically the drivers for it are so "advanced" that the game cannot recognize them. So whenever i tried to play the game I couldn't get it to work for more than 2 min. A little research on the net revealed I would likely have to roll the drivers back four years just to get it to work..

Thankfully my laptop is no slouch and is ATI based. With a little patience KOTOR installed and works like a charm, but in truth this experience has really got me reconsidering my choice to buy an nvidia card for my desktop. This makes game number 3 that refused to work on it (the first two were MTW and STW).

[econ21]

Beskar, what you say - to the extent that it differs from what I said - is not how I remember the Kotor II plot. Specifically:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

With Kreia's guidance, your character re-forges your links by using the force energy of others, like your party members to fuel your connection.

I can see that your character does re-forge links with the force using the force energy of others and that Kreia tries to guide you. But I can't recall her being happy at me making them into Jedi - quite the contrary. And I can't square her wanting me to re-forge links with the force with:

Kreia wanted you use you to kill the force.

I guess I am saying that I don't have actually have an answer to Ironside's original question - what was the point of the ending? Maybe I will have to replay the game again? It's almost that time of year again...

[rajpoot]

Reading the spoilers from the KOTOR 2 plot reminds me of just how good that game could have been, alas for completely buggy games!

They are remedying that.
http://www.team-gizka.org/index.html
If you haven't seen it yet, then check this it. It's still not released, but when it will be, I think it'll make KOTOR 2 better than KOTOR.
They're putting in a lot of stuff cut off from the original release of the game and polishing the whole thing.

[Ironside]

Well, with the memories of that plot returning, I think I got an answer for my own question.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The difference between your void in the force and everyone elses (aka all the baddies) is basically that you're not killing things. And a dead force in a living world is what Kreia wants (might be obvious but the thought haven't fully occured until now). Darth Nihilus slowly drains everything to death and that force draining skill kills the exposed.

But were the exile "fail" is that while you drain force energy, you don't consume it, or to but it otherwise: You're a black whole that instead of sucking the force in (while leaving everyone alive) you keep all that force stuck around you and transfer it to those around you through your bonds.

Kreia tries to make that you automatically expands that hole. thus killing the force, but fails.