Chavez being Chavez

[Redleg]

Chavez seems to be creating problems for himself with his own people.

Let him continue to demonstrate his true agenda and the people of his nation might decide that his form of government is no better then the last dictator and vote him out of office by the ballot or the bullet.

Its up to them to decide how their nation will be governed.

[The Black Ship]

Of course he could just go all Mugabe on them and make any future free election difficult to impossible...

[Tribesman]

Hey Black ship , I don't want to spoil your topic , but you do know the proposed security/intelligence law in Venezuela wasn't made law don't you ?

[PanzerJaeger]

Hey Black ship , I don't want to spoil your topic , but you do know the proposed security/intelligence law in Venezuela wasn't made law don't you ?

How does that spoil the topic? It was clearly an example of Chavez being Chavez.

[Tribesman]

How does that spoil the topic? It was clearly an example of Chavez being Chavez.

You mean Chavez being Chavez by trying to bring in a set of laws that opponents say is like laws you have in your country .
Doesn't that mean Chavez is being Bush ?
You love Bush Panzer so you must really adore Hugo .

[CountArach]

Yes. The real issues in this world. War, peace, hunger, nuclear weapons and seatbelt laws.

Oh my God that was hilarious!

@ CR here - I specifically remember JAG saying that he wanted to tear up his Labour Party membership when Blair announced the CCTV cameras.

[InsaneApache]

He didn't though, did he?

[PanzerJaeger]

You mean Chavez being Chavez by trying to bring in a set of laws that opponents say is like laws you have in your country .
Doesn't that mean Chavez is being Bush ?
You love Bush Panzer so you must really adore Hugo .

Wow, you're off your game tonight.

Needless to say, you've reached some interesting, allbeit completely false, conclusions.

[Tribesman]

Needless to say, you've reached some interesting, allbeit completely false, conclusions.

Very true , Bush still has his strange security laws in place so he isn't being a Hugo is he
Well spotted , you really are on form Panzer .

[JAG]

He didn't though, did he?

No, I mollify my clear authoritarian leaning, big brother wanting, put-a-chip-in-every-person-at-birth-and-watch-them-whenever-they-move, anti-liberal ways by being a member of the most vehmently liberal pressure groups there are. I was a member of Liberty before I was a member of the Labour party and have actively supported it far more than the Labour party as a whole, likewise with Amnesty International. Other groups, such as those highlighting penal reform and also others tackling fascists. It is quite possible for me not to break with a party, in which I agree with the vast majority of the members on a vast majority of the issues, to support liberal issues.

What annoyed me so much before, is that certain people here - including CR - do not want to listen to your views or take into account what you state you believe in, they simply have a narrow minded view of what I must believe and thus cannot understand how I can possibly be a liberal. I hope others understand that it is quite possible to believe that government is a vehicle for good and change for the better, without believing that CCTV's on every corner is a good thing, ID cards are a must and security stop and checks on people who have done nothing wrong are justified under any circumstance, when in reality they are not only fundamentally flawed but an outrageous and disgusting blot on what we call our free and democratic society. Funnily enough I seem to remember arguing these points not only more consistently than CR and his ilk but also often against them on these issues! The mind boggles - and that is why I was so pee'd off.

[HoreTore]

Well said, JAG.

[InsaneApache]

No, I mollify my clear authoritarian leaning, big brother wanting, put-a-chip-in-every-person-at-birth-and-watch-them-whenever-they-move, anti-liberal ways by being a member of the most vehmently liberal pressure groups there are. I was a member of Liberty before I was a member of the Labour party and have actively supported it far more than the Labour party as a whole, likewise with Amnesty International. Other groups, such as those highlighting penal reform and also others tackling fascists. It is quite possible for me not to break with a party, in which I agree with the vast majority of the members on a vast majority of the issues, to support liberal issues.

What annoyed me so much before, is that certain people here - including CR - do not want to listen to your views or take into account what you state you believe in, they simply have a narrow minded view of what I must believe and thus cannot understand how I can possibly be a liberal. I hope others understand that it is quite possible to believe that government is a vehicle for good and change for the better, without believing that CCTV's on every corner is a good thing, ID cards are a must and security stop and checks on people who have done nothing wrong are justified under any circumstance, when in reality they are not only fundamentally flawed but an outrageous and disgusting blot on what we call our free and democratic society. Funnily enough I seem to remember arguing these points not only more consistently than CR and his ilk but also often against them on these issues! The mind boggles - and that is why I was so pee'd off.

You forgot about locking people with no charges, denying them access to a solicitor and hiding the fact that they are locked up to their families. Not to mention spying on families using anti-terror legislation because they might have fibbed about where they live. Pissing about with the democratic process so that for the first time in my lifetime we have prosecutions for electoral fraud. Then there is the revealing taxation policy of screwing the poorest of society to fund tax breaks for people like me who don't need them. Perhaps you also agree with Browns car tax policy of again hitting the poorest off with a retrospective tax on cars 7 years and older. Oh yes, very progressive socialist and liberal policies. You, as ever, astound me in your blindness.

[PanzerJaeger]

Very true , Bush still has his strange security laws in place so he isn't being a Hugo is he
Well spotted , you really are on form Panzer .

Your attempts to change the subject are revealing. What will you do when you can't defend dictators with the standard BUSH iZ EVIlZ TOOO!! line? Less than a year to go and you'll actually have to come up with something substinative..

[Tribesman]

Your attempts to change the subject are revealing. What will you do when you can't defend dictators with the standard BUSH iZ EVIlZ TOOO!! line?

Oh dear , poor panzer .
Tell you what Panzer have a little challenge , you find a post of me defending a dictator , and I will find a couple of dozen by you singing the praises of dictators .

[ICantSpellDawg]

Oh dear , poor panzer .
Tell you what Panzer have a little challenge , you find a post of me defending a dictator , and I will find a couple of dozen by you singing the praises of dictators .

George Bush is a dictator... blah blah blah.
Alvaro Uribe is a dictator... blach blah blah

It's like listening to a broken and warped old record.

[Tribesman]

George Bush is a dictator... blah blah blah.
Alvaro Uribe is a dictator... blach blah blah

It's like listening to a broken and warped old record.

slight problem there tuff , while I have called Bush many things I have never called him dictator , and while I have railed against Uribe over term limits terrorist links drug dealing associates and corruption I have never called him a dictator either .

Perhaps your record is playing backwards

[CountArach]

You forgot about locking people with no charges, denying them access to a solicitor and hiding the fact that they are locked up to their families. Not to mention spying on families using anti-terror legislation because they might have fibbed about where they live. Pissing about with the democratic process so that for the first time in my lifetime we have prosecutions for electoral fraud. Then there is the revealing taxation policy of screwing the poorest of society to fund tax breaks for people like me who don't need them. Perhaps you also agree with Browns car tax policy of again hitting the poorest off with a retrospective tax on cars 7 years and older. Oh yes, very progressive socialist and liberal policies. You, as ever, astound me in your blindness.

Did you read his post at all?

[InsaneApache]

Yes.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Sorry JAG - I didn't remember your position against CCTVs. But to be fair, I did ask you your position on them.

And you did say that having seat belt laws gives us more freedom, in a sort of Orwellian doublespeak. And you were defending the EU's attempt to steamroll their way over the people of Europe to a new powerful government.

So I don't really think of you as the most classically liberal person here.

CR