Late Term Abortion

[Divinus Arma]

A foetus isn't necessarily a human being. It is a potential human being and is comparable to an animal. I didn't equate the worth of a human to anything.

If the child can survive outside of the womb, even with help, it is a human. Just because it needs a bit of help does not mean its life is worth less, just like many of us outside of the womb need medical attention to survive.




Child: Hi, I'm Jenny. I'm only 5 months along in the womb.

Doctor grabs feet.

Jenny: Oh, I guess they want me out now. Yay! I can't wait to see the exciting world outside after hearing all the funny noises!

Doctor pulls Jennifer halfway out of the vagina, so the head remains inside.

Jenny: Hi! I'm ready! Why are you waiting? I'm hungry and I want to meet my mommy.

Doctor sticks scissors into the back of Jenny's head, spreads them open to widen the hole, and then sticks a vacuum inside to suck her brains out.



Jenny could have felt the warm sun on her face and enjoyed the rich fragrance of flowers in her yard. Jenny could have watched ants crawling on the ground and she could have loved swimming in the local lake with her friends. She could have fallen in love. Jenny could have been a loving mother and pursued a successful career. She may have been a proud grandmother and she may have died after a long and fulfilling life, watching her own children and grandchildren enjoy the things she so enjoyed.

Or Jenny might have had down syndrom, in which case despite her disability she still would have had much to be excited about as she began each new day.

[Strike For The South]

If the child can survive outside of the womb, even with help, it is a human. Just because it needs a bit of help does not mean its life is worth less, just like many of us outside of the womb need medical attention to survive.




Child: Hi, I'm Jenny. I'm only 5 months along in the womb.

Doctor grabs feet.

Jenny: Oh, I guess they want me out now. Yay! I can't wait to see the exciting world outside after hearing all the funny noises!

Doctor pulls Jennifer halfway out of the vagina, so the head remains inside.

Jenny: Hi! I'm ready! Why are you waiting? I'm hungry and I want to meet my mommy.

Doctor sticks scissors into the back of Jenny's head, spreads them open to widen the hole, and then sticks a vacuum inside to suck her brains out.



Jenny could have felt the warm sun on her face and enjoyed the rich fragrance of flowers in her yard. Jenny could have watched ants crawling on the ground and she could have loved swimming in the local lake with her friends. She could have fallen in love. Jenny could have been a loving mother and pursued a successful career. She may have been a proud grandmother and she may have died after a long and fulfilling life, watching her own children and grandchildren enjoy the things she so enjoyed.

Or Jenny might have had down syndrom, in which case despite her disability she still would have had much to be excited about as she began each new day.

Holy Christ man.

[Devastatin Dave]

Holy Christ man.

Do you refute his post or see his point? Why not talk about what happens in these procedures. How about when these abortion don't work and they throw away the still living fetus NOT ATTAChED TO THE MOTHER in trash cans to die slowly. You should hear some of the testomony given by nurses at the "clinics". It makes you understand why mankind is doomed. This world is so screwed when people can compare the fetus of a cow to that of a human being and not see the difference. Oh well, lets get back to disagreeing for the sake of posturing our moral superiorities... for or against, it doesn't matter. My wife won't ever have one and I'm thankful my mom didn't make the "choice". Thats as far as I care about the issue anymore. Its a pointless subject and one that will NEVER find compremise. Sorry DA, the cat's out of the bag, the abortion things just peachy and soooo liberating for these irresponsible chicks (here comes the 50.000 posts about rape, incest, etc) that you won't be able to capture in their minds what you're trying to show them. Hmmm, let me see...

Here we go, abortion causes global warming.

[Samurai Waki]

Here we go, abortion causes global warming.

Thats nonsense, as we all know that global warming is caused by piracy.

[ajaxfetish]

Thats nonsense, as we all know that global warming is caused by piracy.

I'm almost certain it's lack of piracy that causes global warming, not the other way round.


Ajax

[Strike For The South]

Life begins at conception. I find it odd how people try to put forth the arguement that the baby cant live on its own. The old the sick the dying all cant take care of themselves yet we do it for them. I guarntee you that if you stopped feeding a 6 month and Gam Gam tommrow they would die. People to often take the most basic things and complicate them to seven shades of gray. What happens a sperm and an egg combine? A baby simple as that. A child is the end result.

You made the decison to have sex and all thart it entalis just like drugs or alcohol or skydiving there are risks involved even if the pill and rubbers are part of the equation. Then of course the arguement comes up that its such a hard decison and one I could never understand. Im sure allot of murderes thevies pedophilies and AAA members regeret there decsions to however that doesnt excuse there actions. To me a woman who gets an abortion is the same as a man who runs out on his young kids. They are nothing but spineless cowards who hide behind our "enlightened pricples" I dont care if you're ready or not you made the choice and you must now live with it you must have the baby. You can put it up for adoption but you must give it life. Personal responsibilty and dececy are hard things to come by in this day and age. No one seems to take any responsibilty and no one ever seems to lend a hand.

Of course I will be labled as someone who simply doesnt "get it" but I dont care anymore. People want to make themselves feel smart and important so they feel as if every issue they take aside must be this facet of paradoxes and exceptions when the truth is staring them right in the face and thats just not with abortion thats with everything even life itself.

[PanzerJaeger]

Life begins at conception. I find it odd how people try to put forth the arguement that the baby cant live on its own. The old the sick the dying all cant take care of themselves yet we do it for them. I guarntee you that if you stopped feeding a 6 month and Gam Gam tommrow they would die. People to often take the most basic things and complicate them to seven shades of gray. What happens a sperm and an egg combine? A baby simple as that. A child is the end result.

You made the decison to have sex and all thart it entalis just like drugs or alcohol or skydiving there are risks involved even if the pill and rubbers are part of the equation. Then of course the arguement comes up that its such a hard decison and one I could never understand. Im sure allot of murderes thevies pedophilies and AAA members regeret there decsions to however that doesnt excuse there actions. To me a woman who gets an abortion is the same as a man who runs out on his young kids. They are nothing but spineless cowards who hide behind our "enlightened pricples" I dont care if you're ready or not you made the choice and you must now live with it you must have the baby. You can put it up for adoption but you must give it life. Personal responsibilty and dececy are hard things to come by in this day and age. No one seems to take any responsibilty and no one ever seems to lend a hand.

Of course I will be labled as someone who simply doesnt "get it" but I dont care anymore. People want to make themselves feel smart and important so they feel as if every issue they take aside must be this facet of paradoxes and exceptions when the truth is staring them right in the face and thats just not with abortion thats with everything even life itself.

Yet again, out of such raw language comes the complete and utter truth.

[rory_20_uk]

Oh joy a Redneck convention...

Sperm = Egg = Baby... Hmmmm. Here states 1 in 4 ends in miscarriage all by itself. Isn't that in fact greater than the number of intentional abortions?

And just to reiterate: a 10 week pregnancy has a 100% chance of dying out of the uterus, as does a 15 week. By 20 weeks we're getting close to getting a living creature some of the time.

I know that nothing will alter these views - especially with the "interesting" examples that are lumped together in the post. Luckily in developed societies these are in the minority.

[Devastatin Dave]

Oh joy a Redneck convention...

Sperm = Egg = Baby... Hmmmm. Here states 1 in 4 ends in miscarriage all by itself. Isn't that in fact greater than the number of intentional abortions?
:

A miscarraige is a bit more natural than using a surgeon to scrape out a baby from its mother's womb. How is this a "redneck convention"? Would you like to call your opinion the "baby-murderer" position?

[Strike For The South]

Oh joy a Redneck convention...

Sperm = Egg = Baby... Hmmmm. Here states 1 in 4 ends in miscarriage all by itself. Isn't that in fact greater than the number of intentional abortions?

And just to reiterate: a 10 week pregnancy has a 100% chance of dying out of the uterus, as does a 15 week. By 20 weeks we're getting close to getting a living creature some of the time.

I know that nothing will alter these views - especially with the "interesting" examples that are lumped together in the post. Luckily in developed societies these are in the minority.

Natrual deaths happen all the time. Kids die from a boatload of things every year. What's your point?

[Sigurd]

[...]I find it odd how people try to put forth the argument that the baby cant live on its own. [...]

I can only speak for my immediate surrounding, but this is an important part of the very definition of abortion. It is clearly stated here that a termination of a pregnancy can be called an abortion only if the fetus is not capable of living outside the womb. It is also stated that fetus is the definition as long as it is inside the womb, from its conceivment until its birth.

In most nations of Europe, the woman can choose to take an abortion up until 12 weeks of her pregnancy. Some of the more liberal nations, up until 24 weeks. But there is no nation that allows a voluntary termination of a pregnancy after 24 weeks in Europe.
In Spain, abortion is only allowed up until 12 weeks if the woman was raped.
There is also a consensus that the point where a fetus can live outside the womb is somewhere between 22 - 28 weeks, but that it vary from pregnancy to pregnancy.

In Norway if a fetus is born but dead, it will enter the census as child, dead upon birth if it was 28 weeks or more. The mother can receive child support from the state if the fetus was 26 weeks.

When it comes to methods of abortion, the gruesome picture given by DA is not legal. In the law it states that abortions after 12 weeks will be by the mother going into forced labor.
Abortions between 12 and 18 weeks is only allowed if a board consisting of medical personnel agrees.
Abortions after 18 weeks if it can be determined that the child will survive outside the womb will never be allowed.

Back to my first statement... what to call it when the fetus is capable of surviving outside the womb when you can't call it an abortion?
I can't find a definition for it.

[Odin]

Back to my first statement... what to call it when the fetus is capable of surviving outside the womb when you can't call it an abortion?
I can't find a definition for it.

mur·der

–noun 1. Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law. In the U.S., special statutory definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation or occurring during the commission of another serious crime, as robbery or arson (first-degree murder), and murder by intent but without deliberation or premeditation (second-degree murder).

I like this one, but this leaves the opening for "when is it a human" argument, but the bit about definitions include murder committed with malice aforethought, characterized by deliberation or premeditation

2. Slang. something extremely difficult or perilous: That final exam was murder!
3. a group or flock of crows.
–verb (used with object) 4. Law. to kill by an act constituting murder.
5. to kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously.

I like this one too, but I'm one of those silly idealists that think once it has a heartbeat its alive

6. to spoil or mar by bad performance, representation, pronunciation, etc.: The tenor murdered the aria.
–verb (used without object) 7. to commit murder.

So dont be bashful Sigurd, most of us have thick skin from being through the manusha here at the org over the years, if you think its murder its okay, you arent alone.

[Craterus]

If the child can survive outside of the womb, even with help, it is a human. Just because it needs a bit of help does not mean its life is worth less, just like many of us outside of the womb need medical attention to survive.




Child: Hi, I'm Jenny. I'm only 5 months along in the womb.

Doctor grabs feet.

Jenny: Oh, I guess they want me out now. Yay! I can't wait to see the exciting world outside after hearing all the funny noises!

Doctor pulls Jennifer halfway out of the vagina, so the head remains inside.

Jenny: Hi! I'm ready! Why are you waiting? I'm hungry and I want to meet my mommy.

Doctor sticks scissors into the back of Jenny's head, spreads them open to widen the hole, and then sticks a vacuum inside to suck her brains out.



Jenny could have felt the warm sun on her face and enjoyed the rich fragrance of flowers in her yard. Jenny could have watched ants crawling on the ground and she could have loved swimming in the local lake with her friends. She could have fallen in love. Jenny could have been a loving mother and pursued a successful career. She may have been a proud grandmother and she may have died after a long and fulfilling life, watching her own children and grandchildren enjoy the things she so enjoyed.

Or Jenny might have had down syndrom, in which case despite her disability she still would have had much to be excited about as she began each new day.

Jenny could have been a psychopath. What's your point?

[Devastatin Dave]

Jenny could have been a psychopath. What's your point?

Or discovered the cure for cancer. What's yours'?

[Craterus]

Or discovered the cure for cancer. What's yours'?

Or she could have led another mediocre life just like everybody else. But, she might have taken the last spot in a school, forcing the next Einstein to go to a worse school in a bad area and get mixed up in the wrong crowd and die of a drug overdose at the age of 18. Gosh, Jenny's a problematic child.

Why do I have to have a point? The whole 'Look what could've happened if not for abortion, woe is me' argument isn't worth much in my opinion.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I wish I hadn't read DA's above post. To think that that happens, well I'd rather not.

And the baby has the right to live and feed off another person because presumably it is at least partly the mother's fault that she is pregnant. I don't think the baby asked to be there. But if the mother has a change of heart, just pull out the scissors!

And even if the mother does show remorse that does not make it acceptable. If you kill an adult and show remorse, do you not still go to prison?

And as for the argument that the baby won't be loved or cared for, that is just unbelievable. So if an elderly person in a care home has no relatives to visit him, should they just be taken round the back of the building and shot (or is it the good old scissors and tube to the head?).