"If the Detainee Dies, You're Doing it Wrong"

[Xiahou]

But too many stories are coming out to deny it. And not from Amnesty International or other 5th column groups. Physicians for Human Rights isn't a bunch of zealots.

Here's the thing though- they tracked 11 people iirc. The seven worst cases were all from Abu Ghraib. I don't think many would dispute that horrible things went on there, but I think it's very arguable if they were systematic abuses or more isolated. The remaining 4 were more about "mental" abuse such as threats against themselves or their families, or sleep deprivation or temperature extremes. I don't doubt the group either, but you have to read what's actually said.

FWIW, I'm one of the four who voted the third choice. By asking if the "USA" has been engaging in torture, I take it to mean practicing systemic torture- I don't think that's the case.

Punish the guilty, sort out the innocent and the irrelevant. That's how our system is supposed to work. Our laws and our systems are plenty tough enough to take care of terrorists. Already done so, and we'll do it again.

Yousef is a poor example to push the "Obama doctrine" with. He was little more than a foot soldier- he was arrested, but leadership higher up was unaffected and left to continue their nefarious work. One might even cite that as the failure of the "prosectution" approach to terrorists.