My next game: Epeiros as Pergamon

[Swordmaster]

Wouldn't it be more logical to keep all your posts in the same topic (i.e. your AAR)? Especially since this is AAR-style stuff.

[Reno Melitensis]

Ave Quintus Sertorius, your campaign as Pergamon is very interesting. I took a close look at your expansion and I would have done the same, but leave the Ptolemies alone for now. It would be better to invade the Phosphorus, they are greeks and have the ideal mic buildings foe you. Wait till you are strong enough, then strike at the Ptolemies and Selucids, and dont forget to ally with Rome. Felicitas.

Cheers.

[Hax]

I advise you take Ankyra first. The Pergamese used a lot of Galatian soldiers.

[QuintusSertorius]

Ave Quintus Sertorius, your campaign as Pergamon is very interesting. I took a close look at your expansion and I would have done the same, but leave the Ptolemies alone for now. It would be better to invade the Phosphorus, they are greeks and have the ideal mic buildings foe you. Wait till you are strong enough, then strike at the Ptolemies and Selucids, and dont forget to ally with Rome. Felicitas.

Cheers.

I think a Bosphorous expedition is overdue now, might be a challenge as well since they've got massive stacks and stone walls there. Perhaps pull out of Naissos and use that army to do the job, giving the settlement to the Getai.

Ptolemies are proving to be weak and disorganised, I can only hope that the Seleukids will emerge stronger as a result of me intervening in Syria/Judea. Once my raids are over, I think I'll leave them for a time, maybe they'll rebuild and come back with a lot more.

I advise you take Ankyra first. The Pergamese used a lot of Galatian soldiers.

I can recruit quite a few out of Nikaia, as well as mercs; don't know if I want to lose that buffer between me and Pontos while they're still a one-province faction.

[jhhowell]

Just so you know, raiding the Sidon/Judea area won't do a heck of a lot, other than some economic reduction if you exterminate and/or sack the markets, ports, etc. AFAIK, those regions offer very few units, even to AS/Ptolemy. Just the Ioudaioi Taxeis, Pantodapoi Phalangitai, and possibly klerouchoi phalangitai (not at all sure about that one). The important cities to raid would be Antioch, Alexandria, Memphis, Seleukia, and Babylonia.

If you're looking for interesting things to do, what about going into the western Med? I don't know if Pergamon had colonies out there, but I'm sure by now you control some of the cities which founded places like Massilia and that one in NE Spain (blanking on the name right now). I've seen KH maintain control out that far after rebellions, so I'm certain a human player can do so too.

Regarding Ankyra, if you don't take it Pontos will. Are you planning on stationing an army nearby and starting a siege as soon as you see a Pontic stack approaching? Or will you be using your console-fu to keep it rebel all game?

[QuintusSertorius]

In an annoying setback, I lost my saves before 253BC, something corrupted them when I tried to exit having started a turn I didn't have time to finish. So re-playing down to 247BC where I was.

I think I might launch a raid into Egypt proper. Otherwise it's the Bosphorous or bust.

Emporion is probably the Spanish community you're thinking of, jhhowell. Might be worth a go.

[QuintusSertorius]

Wouldn't it be more logical to keep all your posts in the same topic (i.e. your AAR)? Especially since this is AAR-style stuff.

I don't know. I try to keep things more story-oriented in the AAR, whereas things are more speculative here.

Talking of which, I think I need a crash-course in how to use horse archers:



I've got loads myself, all mercs of course, what do I do with them?

[lobf]

I don't know. I try to keep things more story-oriented in the AAR, whereas things are more speculative here.

Talking of which, I think I need a crash-course in how to use horse archers:



I've got loads myself, all mercs of course, what do I do with them?

Get your HAs firing at the enemy's rear and/or chasing them around to tire them out. Don't let them engage in melee.

[QuintusSertorius]

Get your HAs firing at the enemy's rear and/or chasing them around to tire them out. Don't let them engage in melee.

I was thinking of splitting them off into two wings; one set of HA, riders and missile cavalry in each. Then keeping the Thracian mediums back with the rest of the army.

Or would I be better off just sending out the horse archers and keeping the rest of my cavalry in reserve?

[Timoleon]

Ave Quintus! I see from the screenshots that you use a lot of Classical Hoplites. I assume that they hold the center of your battleline. This surprises me a bit, knowing you constancy with historical accuracy. To my knowledge, Pergamos didn't use hoplites at all! In fact they didn't even used makedonian type phalanxes. They mainly used Galatian Mecenaries and Thureophoroi.
I will take take the initiative to propose an army, since I would like to see how your campaign goes with historically accurate armies!

Here is their battle deployment in the battle of Pergamun, 190 BC (I found it on the Internet)

Eumenes, knowing he was outnumbered, decided to anchor one flank of his army on the sea so that he could not be outflanked on both sides. He, therefore, deployed his own command, the largest, next to the sea and that of Prince Attalos to his right. Eumenes troops were drawn up in the following manner. On the left, next to the beach, were half the Tarantine cavalry and on their right 600 mercenary thureophoroi deployed facing a small area of rough ground. Next in line were half the army's bolt shooters, taken from the walls of Pergamum to swell the army, that would hopefully cause great slaughter with missiles that no shield could withstand. Extending the line to their right was a deep body of light troops comprising the Mysian javelinmen and the Cretan archers supporting them. Behind the skirmishers were the ferocious Galatian tribesmen, fierce warriors, naked apart from their gold torques, able to sweep even a Macedonian phalanx away in their charge and convinced of their invulnerability. At either end of the Galatians, still behind the psiloi were two columns of thureophoroi to be deployed when needed. Behind all of these stood the king himself with his bodyguard and to their rear a body of Xystophoroi cavalry waiting in reserve. Finally, Eumenes placed Stone Throwers at the right hand end of his part of the line. This was indeed unusual as these large engines were only usually seen at sieges. Prince Attalos extended his father's battleline from the siege engines with his mercenary thureophoroi and then his bolt shooters. Trallian slingers and the rest of the Tarantine cavalry finished off the front line. Behind the Trallians were Galatian horsemen, good troops but lacking the ferocity of their unmounted brethren, and further to the rear was the Prince with the remainder of the Xystophoroi.

And here is an Pergamene Army for the Field of Glory board game:

3 x Commanders
4 x Xystophoroi
4 x Galatian Cavalry
4 x Light Cavalry
18 x Thureophoroi
12 x Galatian Foot
6 x Cretan Archers
8 x Trallian Slingers

In EB this could be something like:
1(or 2) x FM
1 x Lonchophoroi Hippeis
1 x Heavy Galatian Cavalry
1(or 2) x Prodromoi or Light Galatian Cavalry
6 x Thureophoroi (or maybe 4 Thureophoroi and 2 Peltasts)
4 x Galatian Heavy Infantry (maybe 3 Botroas and 1 Gaesatae mercenaries)
2 x Cretan archers
3 x Iaosatae (Gallic Slingers)

Since Thureophoroi are quite unreliable in EB, you could use Thorakitai instead.
Of course, when you fight in the Crimean, you could replace your heavy cavalry with horse archers.

I hope you like my army proposal and sorry for the long post.

[QuintusSertorius]

People should never apologies for long posts!

As you've identified, Theurophoroi are rubbish, so I never bother recruiting them. Only thing is, I can't recruit Thorakitai anywhere. They're not mercs either, so that's not an option.

I've got some Gallic options in my roster from Tylis and Nikaia (mainly Celto-Hellenics, but also Iaosatae and Leuce Epos), but I can't recruit Botroas or Brihentin. I know Pergamon used a lot of mercenaries, but I'm loathe to use lots of them in my main lineup given the difficulty of reliably recruiting them. I try to simulate that with lots of regional troops - Thracian, Gallic, Asiatic and so on. I could hire more Tindanotae, though. I'll be able to recruit Kretan archers soon, and of course there's always mercenary ones avaiable.

In a lot of ways my standard army is a compromise with what I can actually recruit! I may be a little cavalry-heavy though, so perhaps I need to review that. Invaraibly I have five units with a full stack (including FMs).

[Timoleon]

Only thing is, I can't recruit Thorakitai anywhere.

I just checked thr Recruitment Viewer and, indeed, there seems that Thorakitai aren't available for Epeiros, even though they are in their roster in the EB site!!!

Maybe you could use more of Taxeis Triballoi (regional MIC 4 in Tylis and Kallatis) and Celtohellenikoi Hoplitai from Ankyra (when you decide to conquer it).