Speaking in Tongues

[Divinus Arma]

(1) Totally false and disingenuous.

(2) Genuine in emotion, but not spiritual.

(3) Spiritual.

(4) Could be any of the three depending on the person and the circumstances.

[CountArach]

False and disingenuous - few people speak in tongues unless they actually believe they can speak in tongues AFAIK.

[Navaros]

Speaking in Tongues is a gift God gave to the Apostles so they could spread the Gospel in the languages they had never learned, and be understood by the native speakers of those languages.

However, what is done today and called 'Speaking in Tongues' is not actually Speaking in Tongues at all. It is simply nonsense and perhaps borderline demonic.

[Fragony]

Does ' speaking in tongues' mean?

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

[What] does 'speaking in tongues' mean?

Seconded, I have a vague idea but can't really comment unless I'm certain...

[Banquo's Ghost]

Does ' speaking in tongues' mean?

Navaros explained it quite well.

The Apostles were said to have been given a gift to speak (and more likely be heard) in all languages of the earth, so that when they preached, all races would understand their message at the same time.

This was clearly an advantage in the very mixed cultures of the Middle East at the time. It is of course, counted as a miracle of the Holy Spirit.

There are modern Christian sects that claim to have the same power, or individuals that enter a trance like state wherein they "speak in tongues".

To my knowledge, listening to them gives one the distinct impression that they are babbling uncontrollably and are not communicating in any language, let alone many distinct ones.

I suspect the experience is much along the same lines as trance states in many traditions, which are heightened emotional states that affect the individual and onlookers of the same mind.

[Pannonian]

There are modern Christian sects that claim to have the same power, or individuals that enter a trance like state wherein they "speak in tongues".

To my knowledge, listening to them gives one the distinct impression that they are babbling uncontrollably and are not communicating in any language, let alone many distinct ones.

So that's what Dubya has been doing all along.

[Adrian II]

I have long held that the answer was 1. Until I got to know some members of a Christian sect and discovered it was rather more 2. Which makes it even more.. how shall I put this?

I better not.

[Tribesman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBvb...eature=related

[CountArach]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBvb...eature=related

One believed it was speaking in tongues. The others just did it to be cool.

[KukriKhan]

Situationally-induced hysteria-on-demand, in my opinion. A lot like what I've seen in Haitian voodoo culture.

On the other hand, I read "news of the weird"-type stories of people suddenly (after some kind of injury or brain trauma) being able to speak some other actual language fluently, or play concert piano, or something else they have not been previously trained to do. If even parts of those stories are accurate, it points to some usually un-tapped ability in us. Not that it's ever happened to me.

[ICantSpellDawg]

God can do whatever he'd like. Is it that hard to believe that he could give men knowledge?

I've never seen it. I've also never seen Julius Caesar dance a jig.

[Adrian II]

God can do whatever he'd like. Is it that hard to believe that he could give men knowledge?

Fluufuf ngnhe jhsndkeb ahhunjub?

Thought so.

[Fragony]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBvb...eature=related

That's just child-abuse

[Louis VI the Fat]

That's just child-abuse

Actually, I think it is indeed. I don't think children ought to be subjected to spiritual exaltation and ecstasy rituals anymore than they should partake in drugs or alcohol induced ecstasy rituals.

As for speaking in tongues - I'm sure the persons involved are genuine in their emotion. But it's no more real or meaningful than those pink elephants I saw performing a Tchaikowsky ballet around my alcohol-imbided head last Saturday night.
That's not to say these rituals don't serve a purpose. From tribal extasy rituals - aided by drugs or not - to western drugs and booze parties, they serve as a great pressure valve and communal rite.

[Reverend Joe]

However, what is done today and called 'Speaking in Tongues' is not actually Speaking in Tongues at all. It is simply nonsense and perhaps borderline demonic.

Damn, Navaros.

Anyhow, I voted 4, because, in all honesty, we can't know that it's all fake, and I'm sure there are a lot of people out there who feel that it is real. But on the other hand, you can't tell me that every Pentecostal nutjob really believes that he/she is speaking in tongues; there's gotta be at least a few* who are faking it.

*Read: at least half to two thirds. It's a fad at best, and a massive case of spiritual fraud at worst.

[Sigurd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBvb...eature=related

Wow ... One of the children said : Jesus will stand on mount Olives december 31st 2010 and destroy the enemies of Israel that had gathered in Syria. She used an old Eastern Hardanger dialect.

[rotorgun]

I voted one, but on reflection I really should have gone with the second choice. I am sure that there are people who, in some state of euphoric, sympathetic, mind numbing mass hysterical trance actually believe that they are recieving some revelation from God. I wouldn't want to discount their misguided beliefs, nor would I wish to mock God and say that it's not possible for it is written...with God all things are possible. I simply feel that it isn't really a needed skillset in today's modern world. Interpretaion isn't a major problem anymore, especially if god wants to give a message in say...Polish to a Polish speaking crowd. Why in Heavan and Earth would he choose one member of the congregation and have them speak in ancient Sumerian? It makes no sense.

I put right up there with snake handling and animal sacrifice.

[Odin]

voted 1.

Mainly posted to say that this was a wonderful thread title for the backroom.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Thank you all for the clarification.

With that in mind, and confirming what I thought I voted (1).

I'm sure that the Apostles, when on their divine mission did pick up some 'foreign (from their point of view) languages and thus were able to continue spreading the word. That they succeeded in this is evident in the fact that today Christianity is the world's dominant religion. However, imho, it was down to either a lot of hard work, or just constant exposure to said foreign language.

Those people of today that claim to be able to speak in tongues, must be (again imho), either experiancing some reaction to spiritual ecstasy, or fraudulent. If it is down to a spiritual experiance, or as mentioned a trancelike state, then that doesn't make it real if they are just babbling meaningless words that sound vaguely like some obscure west african tribal shaman's secret language!!!

The ability that some have mentioned regarding bumps on head and randomly being able to speak a foreign language... I've heard that too. Its something to do with the subconscious picking up the words somewhere in the past and suddenly,(with the application of a very large hammer) these being thrust into the actual consciousness. I'm no psychologist, and that's just my own understanding (well you try reading Heart of Darkness and understanding conciousness!!!).

So yes I am a heathen unbeliever... :p

[Ironside]

Situationally-induced hysteria-on-demand, in my opinion. A lot like what I've seen in Haitian voodoo culture.

On the other hand, I read "news of the weird"-type stories of people suddenly (after some kind of injury or brain trauma) being able to speak some other actual language fluently, or play concert piano, or something else they have not been previously trained to do. If even parts of those stories are accurate, it points to some usually un-tapped ability in us. Not that it's ever happened to me.

When it comes to language, they've actually learned the "new" language at some earlier point, but get some major recollection. I suspect it's simular for everything else you can get it for, but it often requires a lot less to learn. But it's still very interesting that you can max out a talent due to an accident, even if it's very rare.

Personally I agree with Banquo.

[macsen rufus]

I voted for 1, but mostly due to it being Monday morning when my judgment can be a little ... harsh

I think BG summed it up very eloquently, and I am willing to concede to cases of ecstatic trance. But I also feel many examples are "acting up" or meeting expectations, or have simply been manipulated by skilled brainwashing techniques

[Husar]

There was a pastor at our church, a very nice guy, never made the impression that anything was wrong with him or he would not believe what he said, well and he told a story.

I don't remember it exactly but he was travelling around and got delayed or so so he sat down somewhere and somehow got to talk to another guy IIRC.
Whatever happened exactly he said at some point he started to talk what sounded like pure gibberish to himself, but the other guy, a complete stranger began to weep or so and in the end he said that the pastor had spoken in his dead brother's voice to him about accepting Jesus or something.

Now I obviously forgot some details but it was pretty weird anyway, I'm not sure what to make of it and haven't voted yet since I cannot honestly decide between options 1, 2, 3 and 4 which prolly means I should go for 4.

[Viking]

1 & 2

[LittleGrizzly]

I voted 1 but i expect there are a fair few who genuinely think they are speaking for God, they have just tricked themselves...

[Don Corleone]

I voted #4, and I find myself in strong agreement with Navaros. I don't actually think what transpires today is demonic, but I don't think it's legitimate 'Speaking in Tongues' either. I think it's an overly emotional frenzy.

The funny thing is, St. Paul even said that speaking in tongues, in and of itself, is absolutely without merit. It was the utilitarianism of the miracle, as so aptly described by Banquo, that was of merit. I think St. Paul called these people "A clanging gong", and it's not hard to see why.

I'm not saying the Holy Spirit couldn't descend as a sheet of fire once again, and we all could reexperience the Pentecost. But I don't think that's what's happening in these rituals these days. Mainly because of what the end result is. If these people (or as Tribesman found, children) were actually able to spread the gospel to foreign lands, that'd be one thing. But standing up in front of an isolated congregation in Westland, Texas, 300 miles from the nearest population center, and preaching in Ibo or Youraba (or as frequently is the case, jibberish) is not spreading the gospel, and therefore, it's not in accord with the original intent of the gift.

[atheotes]

deliberated between 1 & 2... but voted for 1. Totally agree with BG... and this is not limited to christianity. I have seen people do this when i was a kid... and always thought they must be on drugs or were faking it... could never see it as what they claimed it was....

[Odin]

so nearly 75% believe there is nothing devine about it. My faith is restored (pun intended)

[Don Corleone]

so nearly 75% believe there is nothing devine about it. My faith is restored (pun intended)

Nothing divine about Tribesman's YouTube video, or nothing divine ever? Divinus Arma left the poll question sufficiently vague that there's a lot of room for interpretation there.

When you come right down to it, the ability to speak in a language you never actually learned is fairly mild in terms of wow factor. Somebody getting whipped within an inch of their life, crucified and then run through with a spear... then on the 3rd day rising from the dead? If you can accept that could happen, you can pretty much accept anything.

Sorry I'm destroying your faith in human intelligence by believing such 'fairy tales'.

[Odin]

Nothing divine about Tribesman's YouTube video, or nothing divine ever? Divinus Arma left the poll question sufficiently vague that there's a lot of room for interpretation there.

Devine ever? for the record I do believe in a god and I do believe that devine events are possible I just find it to be highly unlikely that god would need to reveal himself through a devine act when, by his own creation of the human spirit he enabled us to question the acts verocity as well as his exsistence.

Somebody getting whipped within an inch of their life, crucified and then run through with a spear... then on the 3rd day rising from the dead? If you can accept that could happen, you can pretty much accept anything.

With the exception of the rising from the dead part the rest was an accepted practice in antiquity. You arent destroying my faith Don, I simply see the rising from the dead as a metaphor for ascending to another spirtual plain.

Sadly, mythology has allowed some to accept it as fact that on the 3rd day this person rose via devine intervention. Fairy tale? call it what ever you want, I go with the spirtual ascention piece, its a far safer hedge on logical thought, the whole devinity schtict that requires people to believe just 'cause'.

Essentially Don its the same end we get to but we obtain it by different means, one requires a faith that is based on God interjecting into the everyday goings on of man. Which seems to me to be an attempt to have some control over an unknown (death).

But hey, Im not above admitting Im wrong, lets suppose that its infact true the whole god intervening via individuals on earth bit, how many 'christs' do you think we missed so far? If infact talking in tongues is a devine gift, why havent any of those who speak it been annointed yet?

You see thats the rub Don, you cant pick and choose a devine intervention, you can suggest one is more devine (like christ) but there again human arrogance takes precendent over the action its either an act of god or it isnt. who is to say that the person in the youtube video wasnt selected by god to be the next coming?

Which entity gets to make that call? By who's authority? Do you think a thousand years from now the mythology of the Youtube video will inspire people to particpate in organized surmons based on the hand me down teachings of the latest coming?

Come on Don, the divinity bit is to help us deal with what we cant answer. If it were truly devine why the hell would God mask it in an obscure jew thousands of years ago who's story was romanticed by a few followers? Why not just come out and reveal his will?

I know!!! because we have the ability to reason, Christ isnt necessary we had all of his rationals before he got whacked.

Anyway, I went on longer then I should I know it bothers you so no response is necessary Don.