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  1. #1

    Default Re: Celtic Two-Handers

    Kern, haven't they found iron swords in India from like 1000 B.C at lengths wouldn't be reached in the west till the La Tene period?


    Though, I've seen some crazy weaponry from India, so advance metallurgy would have to be required.
    Last edited by russia almighty; 06-29-2008 at 01:24.


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  2. #2
    master of the wierd people Member Ibrahim's Avatar
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    Default Re: Celtic Two-Handers

    I've gathered (yet to be confirmed), that them Indian swords were extra wide-then again, the person was no expert.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Celtic Two-Handers

    Quote Originally Posted by russia almighty View Post
    Kern, haven't they found iron swords in India from like 1000 B.C at lengths wouldn't be reached in the west till the La Tene period?


    Though, I've seen some crazy weaponry from India, so advance metallurgy would have to be required.
    Indeed, Metallurgy in India at that time was the most advanced in the world, especially where Iron was concerned.


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  4. #4

    Default Re: Celtic Two-Handers

    considering the Hittites around a somewhat similar timeline and their special place in the early age of iron usage, could we then assume that India was directly influenced by Indo-European culture in concern to iron-working? Or possibly the Scythic Era/Eurasian steppe in general? Or were the native peoples of the Indus valley that developed completely separate from any Aryan invaders or practicers of steppe lifeways?
    Last edited by blitzkrieg80; 06-29-2008 at 20:17.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Celtic Two-Handers

    One of the reasons why the Aryan invaders of India conquered the Indus and Ganges plains was their use of Iron. Haomavarga Saka ancestors' and their own ancestors must have been one and the same, as they themselves drunk Haoma/Ephedra and glorify that in their Vedas.


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  6. #6
    Like the Parthian Boot Member Elmetiacos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Celtic Two-Handers

    At last the question gets answered! The longest blades are from Port Nidau in Switzerland. Reading the rest of the Swordforum thread, though, two-handed use is only one possibility; others posters suggest their use in executions, from horseback (hmm... too early for Celtic cavalry?) from chariots (hmm once again) or simply as great big swords to be used as ornaments or thrown into lakes as offerings. Perhaps most importantly, the possible two-handers all come from before the EB timeframe. That, incidentally would be before the Celts invented mail which makes two-hander use on the battlefield even less likely: unless you need to cut through heavy armour, discarding your shield is not going to be worth it.

    To set the record straight, I never said that all Celtic swords were short and blunt, what I said was that during the La Tene period, there was a tendency for swords to get shorter and for more to be made with blunt ends. You start off, c.700BC with the classic Celtic Longsword, leaf shaped and long and you end up with little machete-like weapons. Doesn't that make you wonder how Celtic warfare was developing...?

    Calling the British "sword masters" a fantasy unit is still valid, since no swords anything like the Port Nidau models have turned up in Britain or Ireland. The continental equivalent, if not fantasy, is still both conjecture and anachronistic even if real (much more so than the lorica segmentata everyone gets so annoyed about)

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  7. #7

    Default Re: Celtic Two-Handers

    Quote Originally Posted by Elmetiacos View Post
    Calling the British "sword masters" a fantasy unit is still valid, since no swords anything like the Port Nidau models have turned up in Britain or Ireland. The continental equivalent, if not fantasy, is still both conjecture and anachronistic even if real (much more so than the lorica segmentata everyone gets so annoyed about)
    Speaking of fantasy, what would you call suggesting authority based on random internet postings? oh, sorry... was there ever a single legitimate academic citation? Maybe I missed when you bothered with that. EB does use citations in our internal forum. We don't have to prove it to you. We might have a collection of such available for the public in the future to dismiss the rag of some harpies, but we certainly don't need internet evidence held to your subjective standards. When you see anything posted concerning the internet by EB members, that's called a treat. Treat for you (us too)- it is no authority. Much more fun and interesting than nothing.


    Concerning swords, so, what is the argument? That the small amount of evidence we have for the exact EB starting time period does not hold completely convincing evidence? and that somehow the technology was lost, since later there are no examples even though it was available earlier? Atlanteans! I suppose axes are similarly a lost technology... thus the Germanic tribes became adept at felling trees with clubs, since the Battle Axe culture was gone and there are no examples of axes... now we can come back to 'Celts Don't Know Axe' topic. What fun the internet is.
    Last edited by blitzkrieg80; 07-01-2008 at 21:50.
    HWÆT !
    “Vesall ertu þinnar skjaldborgar!” “Your shieldwall is pathetic!” -Bǫðvar Bjarki [Hrólfs Saga Kraka]
    “Wyrd oft nereð unfǽgne eorl þonne his ellen déah.” “The course of events often saves the un-fey warrior if his valour is good.” -Bēowulf
    “Gørið eigi hárit í blóði.” “Do not get blood on [my] hair.” -Sigurð Búason to his executioner [Óláfs Saga Tryggvasonar: Heimskringla]

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  8. #8
    Jesus Member lobf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Celtic Two-Handers

    Quote Originally Posted by blitzkrieg80 View Post
    Speaking of fantasy, what would you call suggesting authority based on random internet postings? oh, sorry... was there ever a single legitimate academic citation? Maybe I missed when you bothered with that. EB does use citations in our internal forum. We don't have to prove it to you. We might have a collection of such available for the public in the future to dismiss the rag of some harpies, but we certainly don't need internet evidence held to your subjective standards.
    Let's please not let this turn into a flame war. All the mean-spiritedness could be avoided by just posting contrasting evidence.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Celtic Two-Handers

    Quote Originally Posted by Elmetiacos View Post
    The continental equivalent, if not fantasy, is still both conjecture and anachronistic even if real
    This statement confuses me.....is there a point to it. Or is it just fantasy to?

    (much more so than the lorica segmentata everyone gets so annoyed about)
    no......everyone does not get annoyed about it. I don't, I know he doesn't, so that's two of us, so the statement is a bit....glib

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  10. #10
    Come to daddy Member Geoffrey S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Celtic Two-Handers

    Good to know that the most substantial source posted thus far is an image cobbled together on swordforum.com. Class act.
    "The facts of history cannot be purely objective, since they become facts of history only in virtue of the significance attached to them by the historian." E.H. Carr

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