OOC Thread and Chatroom

[Ignoramus]

The only reason it's illegal is because it changes the charter. The charter states that war may only be declared by a vote of the Magnaura or by the Basileus. Your edict would allow generals to declare war on the Turks by themselves.

Don't worry about making mistakes. In KotR I made quite a few when I was Chancellor(the same position as the Megas here), but everyone's understanding OOC. IC and OOC are completely separate in these games.

[flyd]

I'll give the dissenting opinion. In passing that Edict, the Senate is declaring the war, just delaying it until some conditions are met.

[OverKnight]

Smowz, as seen in the Magnaura, opinion about whether 2.4 is an Amendment is mixed. I gave my rationalization in that thread, I hope it makes sense.

Feel free to repropose with slightly different language.

Edit: Yeah, a valid argument FLYdude, but the final call is the Basileus's. It's good to be the King.

[Ignoramus]

I still think that's a charter ammendment, and as OK is Basileus, he gets to settle rule disputes.

[Privateerkev]

3.6 – War: Except as allowed by rank powers under Rule 2.7, any declaration of war must be authorized by an Edict.

Just rewrite the edict to declare war on the Turks.

Short, simple, to the point.

ThisisnotanEdict 2.X: War is declared on the Turks.

[Smowz]

Thanks for your responses. It is somewhat confusing to begin with to understand the purpose of the Senatorial session and the restrictions on the players in the game.

Throughout the last term I was mystified by some of the movements I saw. It seemed strange that no fleets were sent out to the other side of Greece. Then I realized that the Megas was under no true obligation to send a ship that way, despite the edict. The edicts themselves served as guidance NOT rules that he/she had to follow.

It also seemed strange to me that some players wished to remain independent and would happily grab themselves two or three provinces. But then I realized the inherent difficulties of organizing house structures and getting everyone to bat in the same direction. Some of the larger houses seem to be houses of cards that threaten to fall down at any moment.

Anyway, I am certainly finding this campaign a very exciting one to follow, in strategical and story telling ways. I am told that events that may be implemented down the line will make things even more entertaining I will wait to see the results.

[Ituralde]

I have to agree that I'm still confused by the whole Edict and CA business and often have to think whether it's the case or not. I mean, rule and IC issues aside, even if the Diet says to declare war it would still need to be done ingame, by either one Senator attacking a Turkish army, or sending a diplomat that declares the war! Would the first option then also be against the rules? If so, what was wrong with the proposed Edict? If it is, would we always need a diplomat or the Basileos himself to start a war?

I somehow feel like this was easier in KotR, but I can't say why, since we're handling it exactly the same now. Anyway, how we handle it now is fine with me.

[OverKnight]

Actually, I'm not sure how often we declared war in KotR, we were usually attacked.

The only exceptions might have been Turkey, Egypt and The Papal States. I think we declared war on the first two by attacking Jihad armies on their way to Constantinople (ironically enough). I think the Crusade CA authorized those. As for the Papal States, well. . .I think I had a small part in that one.

[Privateerkev]

In KotR, the Chancellor could break edicts and even the Charter. There was much debate both OOC and IC over what the Chancellor could and could not do.

In this game, the Edicts are only enforceable in so far as the Senate decides to enforce them. The Emperor broke no less than 4 edicts last term but, with the exception of the priests, nothing has been said in the Senate so he basically got away with it.

The Rules however are pretty much iron-clad. The Megas can't break the rules. And neither can the players. The only exception is if you talk to TC and get him to ok an event for you.

In KotR, the Chancellor could do just about anything and it was up to the players to take him to task. In this game, the player of the Megas is basically bound OOC to follow the rules. In the test game, OverKnight was forced to send reinforcements to his enemies in the civil war. He simply could not ignore the rules, no matter how much he might have wanted to IC.

Why all this is important is because it makes CA's even more powerful. So, while an edict simply directs the Megas, it can't violate the actual rules. A CA can change the rules and the Megas, as well as the players, are bound to follow them. And they will have to live with it, change them back, change them to something else, or ask TC if they can break them and have an 'event'.

[Ignoramus]

In KotR, we were much stricter on edict keeping. Wolfgang got impeached for purchasing Scotland.

[deguerra]

Well, I think it is a matter of where the game is. As it stands, everyone recognised that the first Megas would have a hard time keeping all the edicts, and we have been lenient. This should not, personally speaking of course, be interpreted that I will continue to do so for every Megas and every situation.

[OverKnight]

Well you have to admit that spending 30,000 Florins on sheep and rocks was pretty drastic and also mind blowingly ahistorical.

[OverKnight]

Sorry for the double post, but if you've got concerns about how Al did his job, feel free to post IC in the Magnaura. It'll add some drama.

[AussieGiant]

I don't see anything fundamentally blowing holes in the structure of the game.

You've simply got a very pliable bunch of senators, who by sheer inactivity or having found no real issue with the way things have gone, are happy or apathetic.

Either of those states are fine for me if I'm the Basileus or Megas

[Ituralde]

Yeah I think the reason there's no major outcry is that most people don't want to anger the Basileos yet. At least that's why my complaint wasn't voiced very forcefully. Other Megas' won't have that bonus.

[AussieGiant]

Indeed, it's one thing to piss off a person holding a position for 10 years. It's an entirely different story when it's the Basileos and he's going to be around for decades.

I would find it surprising that anyone will take on the Basileus when he holds both positions....only once the higher ranks are attained will this likely occur.

And quite rightly so I believe.

[TinCow]

For a bit of explanation, the reason why Edicts can be violated by the Megas, but the Rules cannot is because the rules are essentially what creates the world we play in. I considered making some Rules violable by the Megas by putting a # next to them, but I ended up essentially sticking a # by everything, because they were all important to keep the game running well. The Rules, at least as they stood when the game started, need to be 100% enforcable otherwise people will have no real clue about how to play. Many blur the line between IC and OOC, but they are all essential parts of the 'structure' of the game. Pull out one leg, and the whole thing might fall down. Edicts, on the other hand, are almost always IC things, thus it is perfectly acceptable to enforce them IC.

To make another gaming comparison, let's compare it to Risk. Experienced Risk players know that the game is largely dependent upon negotiations and deal-making between the players. People make deals constantly, but they cannot truly be enforced. People can backstab at will and the only thing preventing people from betraying each other are the prospects of future penalties in the game or even in a future games. However, the players cannot break the rules of the game itself. Imagine how unstable it would be if someone could simply decide to that they could attack Australia from Africa. It would ruin the game balance and throw everything out of whack. The same is true here. The basic rules are designed to give us directions on how to play, and as such they must always be enforced. The Edicts are the 'deals' and 'alliances' of Risk. They are formally codified by a group vote, but it's up to the group to actually enforce them or let them slide. Something of the League of Nations and United Nations approach to governance.

OK's term as Megas was always going to be a pretty free-will thing since it was impossible to impeach him. As I noted in my commentary to the original rules draft, the way this game is designed the Faction Leaders have a very large amount of power at the start of the game. In the beginning, they can do almost whatever they want and weild far more power than anyone else. As time goes on and people gain rank, the FL's powers are eroded and some Houses may become the supreme power in the land. That will take time, though, and in the meantime it's a good idea to kiss the Basileus' butt and look the other way when he breaks the law.

[Privateerkev]

Sorry for the double post, but if you've got concerns about how Al did his job, feel free to post IC in the Magnaura. It'll add some drama.

I think we're all very afraid of you IC...

I only posted about the broken edicts to help Smowz understand the difference between edicts and CA's. He mentioned the lack of ships moving around Greece which alludes to Edict 1.6. I certainly was not attempting to start an OOC bandwagon on the Emperor. In fact, I very much dislike that particular playing strategy and have been on the receiving end of it a few times in KotR.

[PrinceofTroy]

I would like to apologize for my inactivity as of late and am sorry to announce my resignation from this game, I know my inactivity will get annoying after a while so I have taken the step and decided to quit. I apologise if this inconveniences anybody ( Esspecially PK whose been a great Grand Master. Sorry Again. PrinceofTroy

[AussieGiant]

Good lord it's turned into a blood bath!!

Sorry to see you go PoT.

[Privateerkev]

Sorry to see you go PoT!

I had fun playing with you in the test game and on here.

Hope you can make it back once real life lightens up.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Im struggling to keep up with this game as well.

I had such grand designs for Monomachos' backstory... but with his advancing age happening so rapidly, I'll never get to do a small bit of what I wanted.

I will still write the story anyway... somehow... but the in-game events regarding Monomachos will probably be very dull.

[Privateerkev]

Somehow I doubt IC interaction with you can be dull...

[Askthepizzaguy]

sigh...

we're entering an extended period of inactivity/defense in the west where I can only afford to sit IN durazzo due to my low loyalty, and I agree with the proposed Eastern Strategy.

Where's the controversy?

I'm going to have to don the clown suit again.

[flyd]

You could always go on campaign in the east if that's where the action is, and if action is what you want.

[pevergreen]

It would take a decent amount of time to get there.

On another note, I am considering writing some stories for Michail, would anybody care to read them enough? I have absolutely no skill for writing (if you dont believe me just check with some people who played in my mafia games)

[Privateerkev]

On another note, I am considering writing some stories for Michail, would anybody care to read them enough? I have absolutely no skill for writing (if you dont believe me just check with some people who played in my mafia games)

Yeah, I don't have any skill in writing either. I say if you like writing the story, then write it and put it up. If people are interested, they'll read it.

[TinCow]

I can only afford to sit IN durazzo due to my low loyalty,

The 'Unwatched by Faction Leader' traits are playing havoc with a lot of loyalty. It is impractical to require everyone to cluster around the FL just to get rid of this. These low loyalty traits can also play havoc with roleplaying. So, I'm going to implement an unwritten rule starting during this Senate session. I will remove any negative 'Unwatched by FL' traits for any player at any time. Just send me a PM requesting it and I will do so. This does not apply to the positive traits, nor does it apply to any other trait line of any kind.

[OverKnight]

If you doubt your writing skills, a good place to start would be to do a coop story with another player. Just posting a conversation between avatars is relatively simple while still fleshing out the characters.

For example, the conversation between Al and Ioannis took only a little bit of actual writing and a few PMs back and forth, but lends some insight into each character, ie Al wants to stay in power to secure the Empire and Ioannis is anticipating trouble with the Magnaura.

[TheFlax]

If you you want a coop story, I'm always ready to write one. You might think you have no reason to talk to Anna, but I can always find some reason. I scheme for no reason at all, so don't worry about it.

And don't doubt your writing skill, you are surely better than you think.