U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

[Tribesman]

You haven't shown anything other than vague unsubstantiated accusations. It'd be nice to see some support for you accusations so that the reader can weigh their validity.

So what would you like , a history of his role in politics , a list of fruitckes that he accepted endorsements and support from or a statement by him saying that he is going to fund , arm and train terrorists when he gets elected ?

[Lemur]

I hate to interrupt a Tribsey/Panzer dustup, but this editorial was too sweet not to repost in part:

The Holy Bible describes certain attributes of The Antichrist. He will be a man that ultimately "sets himself above all that is called god." (If one claims to adhere to several different gods, even though each one claims exclusive dominion, then what does that say about the man?) The Antichrist will be a persecutor of Christians. He will be a consummately skilled liar. And, his identity will be revealed only after The Tribulation has already begun.

Now, before readers make too many assumptions, consider that The Antichrist will be preceded by a False Prophet, who will give The Antichrist his political power. Recently, former president Bill Clinton endorsed candidate Barack Obama, even though Hillary Clinton has only suspended (not withdrawn) her candidacy for president. Bill Clinton cannot become president again. But, he could be appointed — by a President Barack Obama, or even by a President Hillary Clinton — to become US Ambassador to the United Nations. And, in that position, he would be eligible to become UN Secretary General. That, in effect, would make Bill Clinton "king of the world," if the UN seizes power. All of that handed to him by a man that rises up, "speaking boastfully" to the world about "change we can believe in." Hmmmmm. [...]

(For the heavily-footnoted details, my new book, Tribulation: 2008, should be released soon.)

[Crazed Rabbit]

Scorn all you want Lemur, but don't you wish me good luck!* I always knew Bill Clinton would have something to do with the apocalypse.

tribesy, for goodness' sake put up (ze links) or shut up.

CR
*A reference to the article.

[Tribesman]

tribesy, for goodness' sake put up (ze links) or shut up.

Why ?
Is it too hard to understand ?
I mean seriously it isn't hard to find McCains support for terrorists while he has been in politics , it certainly isn't hard to find fruitcakes that have endorsed him and that he has sought support from , its exceptionally easy to find his statement about wishing to support terrorism if he gets elected .

So the only question you have to think about is the corectness of Panzers "only Obama is a and only Obama can be attacked on those grounds" or my "both Obama and McCain are s" .

[FactionHeir]

Obama's bringing change. He first ditches his seal after some people started thinking of him as arrogant and now he's ditching his first pound as well - refusing to do so with a kid no less. What's next to be thrown under the bus?

[LittleGrizzly]

and now he's ditching his first pound as well - refusing to do so with a kid no less.

Well theres some of my respect gone.... how long must we wait for a cool president!

[Lemur]

Looks as though Bush 41 is an evil-doer as well, at least, to judge by his "terrorist fist-jab" he is:

[PanzerJaeger]

Rush beat Howard. By a lot.

LIMBAUGH SIGNS THROUGH 2016; $400 MILLION DEAL SHATTERS BROADCAST RECORDS

Wed Jul 02 2008 09:02:18 ET
**Exclusive**

The American broadcast industry is rocked, realigned and blasted into a new orbit, yet again, by Rush Limbaugh, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

In what is being described as an unprecedented radio contract, Limbaugh will keep his syndicated show on-the-air and e-v-e-r-y-w-h-e-r-e through 2016 with CLEAR CHANNEL and PREMIERE RADIO.

Already host of the most lucrative hours since radio's inception, Limbaugh's total package is valued north of $400 million, according to media insiders.

The NEW YORK TIMES will claim this weekend that Limbaugh, marking 20 years this summer as a national host, has secured a 9-figure signing bonus for the new deal, newsroom sources tell DRUDGE.

MORE

In its controversial profile, the TIMES reports that Limbaugh is buying a new G550 jet and is making an estimated $38 million a year.



[The cover photo of the TIMES Sunday magazine depicts Limbaugh 'dark and sinister' in a theme of THE GODFATHER.]

While newspapers and traditional broadcast media are experiencing declining revenues, Limbaugh's golden microphone has turned diamond-laced:

Earnings now pace him ahead of the annual salaries for network news anchors: Katie Couric, Brian Williams, Charlie Gibson and Diane Sawyer — combined!

MORE

The deal represents a stunning triumph over the establishment by an outsider who connected with and captured the spirit of the nation's heartland.

Developing...

[Lemur]

And the details of Limbaugh's financial deal as opposed to other radio hosts' is salient to "U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary" how, exactly? I mean, I'm all for wandering afield sometimes, but this seems to be utterly irrelevant. Shall we discuss what's on HBO this week as well?

-edit-

Speaking of TV, it appears that the actor who played a black President on 24 wants credit for "paving the way" for a black candidate in real life.

Actors just don't quite understand their relationship with reality sometimes.

"If anything, my portrayal of David Palmer, I think, may have helped open the eyes of the American people," said the actor, who has contributed $2,300 to the Illinois Democrat's presidential campaign.

"And I mean the American people from across the board -- from the poorest to the richest, every color and creed, every religious base -- to prove the possibility there could be an African-American president, a female president, any type of president that puts the people first," he said Tuesday.

[PanzerJaeger]

And the details of Limbaugh's financial deal as opposed to other radio hosts' is salient to "U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary" how, exactly? I mean, I'm all for wandering afield sometimes, but this seems to be utterly irrelevant. Shall we discuss what's on HBO this week as well?

You're right. Rush isn't political at all. He plays no part in the process. No one interested in US politics would find that news even slightly interesting.

On the other hand, I hope you're continuing to monitor Fox News for anymore breaking fist-bump scandles, including suspicious past fist-bumps of former US presidents. Very important stuff.

[Lemur]

Thanks for dodging behind a hastily erected wall of sarcasm. Again: "And the details of Limbaugh's financial deal as opposed to other radio hosts' is salient how"? Look, there are oodles of ditto-heads on this board. Why not do them a favor and start a thread on the appropriate subject?

In news that, you know, relates to the election and stuff, Gallup is examining the relationship between latino voters and Obama: "Hispanic registered voters' support for Barack Obama for president remained consistent and strong in June, with Obama leading John McCain by 59% to 29% among this group."

[PanzerJaeger]

Thanks for dodging behind a hastily erected wall of sarcasm. Again: "And the details of Limbaugh's financial deal as opposed to other radio hosts' is salient how"? Look, there are oodles of ditto-heads on this board. Why not do them a favor and start a thread on the appropriate subject?

I’m wondering why you’re so bothered that I posted that article. More importantly, I’m intrigued as to how you, who brought us the “Fist Bump”(and then thoroughly beat all the funny out of it) among other asinine postings, feel the need to lecture me on the content and substance of what I post. Last I checked you're just a sideshow like everyone else in this 3 ring circus.

[Lemur]

And once again you dodge the question. I accept your apology, as Colbert would say.

[Don Corleone]

Rush Limbaugh has a lot to do with U.S. politics, but he's not a figure in the election, at least not outside his own egocentric world view. This thread is about the election specifically, not U.S. politics in general. It wouldn't be on-topic for me to discuss how Anne Coulter is way hotter than Jeanine Garofalo either.

[PanzerJaeger]

And once again you dodge the question. I accept you apology, as Colbert would say.

I answered the question, in a roundabout sort of way, in my first response. Maybe you didn't catch it.

[Lemur]

It wouldn't be on-topic for me to discuss how Anne Coulter is way hotter than Jeanine Garofalo either.

However, it is your duty and obligation to your fellow Orgahs to start such a thread.

Reading accounts like this make me really, really like Johnny Mac:

"McCain was down at the end of the table and we were talking to the head of the guerrilla group here at this end of the table and I don't know what attracted my attention. But I saw some kind of quick movement at the bottom of the table and I looked down there and John had reached over and grabbed this guy by the shirt collar and had snatched him up like he was throwing him up out of the chair to tell him what he thought about him or whatever ... I don't know what he was telling him but I thought, 'Good grief, everybody around here has got guns and we were there on a diplomatic mission.' I don't know what had happened to provoke John, but he obviously got mad at the guy ... and he just reached over there and snatched ... him."

[Spino]

Rush beat Howard. By a lot.

I saw the news today but thanks for pointing out the Howard Stern angle. Stern must be livid! The 'King of all Media' outearned... by a great big uncool fat person!

Speaking of TV, it appears that the actor who played a black President on 24 wants credit for "paving the way" for a black candidate in real life.

Actors just don't quite understand their relationship with reality sometimes.

"If anything, my portrayal of David Palmer, I think, may have helped open the eyes of the American people," said the actor, who has contributed $2,300 to the Illinois Democrat's presidential campaign.

"And I mean the American people from across the board -- from the poorest to the richest, every color and creed, every religious base -- to prove the possibility there could be an African-American president, a female president, any type of president that puts the people first," he said Tuesday.

The greatest thing about actors is that most of them never fail to see just how ridiculous and/or stupid they appear to people with a semblance of intelligence when they open their mouths on any subject not related to their craft. Actors children should be seen and not heard.

[CountArach]

Just going back to the earlier discussion about McCain associating with terrorists...

Here

The co-host of a recent top-dollar fundraiser for Sen. John McCain oversaw the payment of roughly $1.7 million to a Colombian paramilitary group that is today designated a terrorist organization by the United States.

Carl H. Lindner Jr., the billionaire Cincinnati businessman, was CEO of Chiquita Brands International from 1984 to 2001, and remained on the company's board of directors until May 2002. Beginning under his tenure, Chiquita executives paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (known by the Spanish acronym AUC), which is described by George Washington University's National Security Archive as an "illegal right-wing anti-guerrilla group tied to many of the country's most notorious civilian massacres."

Following a Justice Department indictment last year, Chiquita admitted to illegally funding the paramilitaries and agreed to pay a $25 million fine. Chiquita's payments to the AUC began in 1997 and lasted seven years; roughly half of the funds came after the group was designated a Foreign Terrorist Organization by the U.S. State Department in 2001.

According to the Justice Department, the payments "were reviewed and approved by senior executives" of Chiquita, who knew by no later than September 2000 "that the AUC was a violent, paramilitary organization."

Late last week, Lindner co-hosted a $25,000-per-person fundraiser for McCain and the Republican Party in the wealthy Indian Hills neighborhood of Cincinnati, Ohio. The event raised about $2 million; Lindner also serves on McCain's Ohio Victory Team.

[Geoffrey S]

Thanks for dodging behind a hastily erected wall of sarcasm. Again: "And the details of Limbaugh's financial deal as opposed to other radio hosts' is salient how"? Look, there are oodles of ditto-heads on this board. Why not do them a favor and start a thread on the appropriate subject?

Because the sheer size of this financial deal shows how important at least quite a few people perceive his views to be, possibly also in connection to the run-up to the election?

[Tribesman]

Not bad Count , however there is a lot more than that when it comes to McCain himself and his support for terrorists during his political career .

[Adrian II]

Forget the terrorist crap, this is about money.

I read that story on Huffington's this morning. Lindner and Chiquita are bad news. Between 1959 and the late 1980s, Lindner was the business partner of Charles Keating, one of the central figures in the $200 billion S&L scandal. They ran various other crooked ventures together. McCain was close to both of them. Now it seems he didn't just intervene on behalf of Keating, but also on behalf of Lindner and Chiquita.

The image of 'clean campaigner' John McCain is unravelling fast.

[Redleg]

Forget the terrorist crap, this is about money.

I read that story on Huffington's this morning. Lindner and Chiquita are bad news. Between 1959 and the late 1980s, Lindner was the business partner of Charles Keating, one of the central figures in the $200 billion S&L scandal. They ran various other crooked ventures together. McCain was close to both of them. Now it seems he didn't just intervene on behalf of Keating, but also on behalf of Lindner and Chiquita.

The image of 'clean campaigner' John McCain is unravelling fast.

Never fear Adrian the moderate middle of the United States has pretty much alreadly determined that once again we are faced with voting for the scummy politician that we believe we do the least harm to the nation.

Its not the best way to determine who you vote for, because you have alreadly determined that both are scummy politicians but with our system its what we got...

Pretty much got to hope for a deadlock between Congress and the President, forcing them to work together to pass good legislation versus bad. But we have alreadly seen the results of that - a poor farm bill was passed, because our dear congressmen want to get re-elected and voting against the farm bill is a good way to lose an election in over 30 states.

[Tribesman]

The image of 'clean campaigner' John McCain is unravelling fast.

What image ?
He is down in Columbia now talking about his record of supporting human rights , from the start of his political career this muppet has consistantly supported numerous groups of murdering scum .

[Redleg]

What image ?
He is down in Columbia now talking about his record of supporting human rights , from the start of his political career this muppet has consistantly supported numerous groups of murdering scum .

amusing that Europeans get so upset about American Politics. Hell all politicians have problems. McCain tied to murdering scum based on right wing politics. Obama tied to murdering scum based on left wing politics. Both are career politicians - which makes them both career liars.

So your point is that both are scum however you still haven't made any real arguement concerning your point.

Here is the problem Tribesman your not making an arguement that demonstrates why one individual should be voted over another. Your just poking at other people's arguements. Now while I find it amusing for a short period of time, and even do it myself to poke fun at other people's arguements, you really should after a bit of fun, provide the actual evidence on what you base your arguement on. Because after several pages of amusement over watching you force people to twist, I rather see some actual arguement over the facts from you. Your a smart guy, you should be able to figure out that point rather quickly.

But then I am also sure your going to apply some caustic remark back at me, but that's okay that is your style, but why don't you actually apply a little actual evidence to your arguement after a bit of fun? This is an election year that many Americans are attempting to take seriousily because of the shape the country is in, so while I can actually find most if not all of what your saying by reading on the candidates - I really would like to see where your coming from, which means I would like to see the information your basing your input on not just finding it myself.

The way I see it right now both candidates should not be given the opporunity to be president, unfortunately as I have stated before, the american people are faced once again with voting for the inidividual we believe will do the least harm to the nation.

Currently with a Democratic controled congress that leaves us with voting for a Republican to force a deadlock between the two parties and two branches of government.

[Tribesman]

Here is the problem Tribesman your not making an arguement that demonstrates why one individual should be voted over another.

Red the only point was that what Panzer wrote was bollox , and it was funny seeing someone who could accurately be described as a racist , terrorist supporting radical (OK not really radical as those views while viewed as radical back in the 20s&30s are now only viewed as comical/contemptable) complaining that one candidate was linked to racist radical terrorists .

As for which candidate I prefer , well if it was Clinton/McCain that would be a simple choice , but as it isn't then I think Obama just about edges it as he doesn't have quite as bad as record as McCain who in turn was miles better than Billary .
Now it may be said that the only reason Obama doesn't have as bad a history as McCain is because he hasn't had time to accumulate one , but with the way things are messed at the moment and the way past policies and events are piling into the current growing pile of crap then Obama does represent at least a small move away from the past . Though of course a lot does rest on the running baggage they join with and with McCain now adding the Cheney/Rove baggage to his campaign that puts him further down the list .

[Adrian II]

He is down in Columbia now talking about his record of supporting human rights , from the start of his political career this muppet has consistantly supported numerous groups of murdering scum.

Oh, please. You sound like an 18-year-old activist on some campus.

Did you know McCain personally clubbed baby seals to death? He did, from the start of his career!

Consistently!

[Xiahou]

Oh, please. You sound like an 18-year-old activist on some campus.

Did you know McCain personally clubbed baby seals to death? He did, from the start of his career!

Consistently!

That "seals" it. I'm voting for him.

[Lemur]

I'd be happy to give Johnny Mac my seal of approval.

Interesting column by a British conservative about how Obama is really a Tory candidate ...

Consider, more or less at random, some of his policy positions. He wants to cut corporation tax. He plans (disappointingly) to grant immunity to telephone companies that help the federal government to eavesdrop on its citizens. He seems to have dropped any notion of criminalising the private ownership of guns, and made no protest when the Supreme Court struck down the District of Columbia's ban on pistols last week. Having made some protectionist noises in order to appeal to the know-nothing Pennsylvania Democrats in advance of their primary, he has returned to reaching the virtues of free trade with an enthusiasm matched by few Republicans.

-edit-

I detect a meme developing -- in less laudatory terms, the Wall Street Journal argues that Obama is the heir to George Bush's policy and ideology:

We're beginning to understand why Barack Obama keeps protesting so vigorously against the prospect of "George Bush's third term." Maybe he's worried that someone will notice that he's the candidate who's running for it.

Most Presidential candidates adapt their message after they win their party nomination, but Mr. Obama isn't merely "running to the center." He's fleeing from many of his primary positions so markedly and so rapidly that he's embracing a sizable chunk of President Bush's policy. Who would have thought that a Democrat would rehabilitate the much-maligned Bush agenda?

[Spino]

I'd be happy to give Johnny Mac my seal of approval.

Interesting column by a British conservative about how Obama is really a Tory candidate ...

Consider, more or less at random, some of his policy positions. He wants to cut corporation tax. He plans (disappointingly) to grant immunity to telephone companies that help the federal government to eavesdrop on its citizens. He seems to have dropped any notion of criminalising the private ownership of guns, and made no protest when the Supreme Court struck down the District of Columbia's ban on pistols last week. Having made some protectionist noises in order to appeal to the know-nothing Pennsylvania Democrats in advance of their primary, he has returned to reaching the virtues of free trade with an enthusiasm matched by few Republicans.

Well then I guess Obama really has everyone duped. It is painfully obvious what he's doing, getting elected by any means necessary. This Brit columnist really needs to pay closer attention.

Consider, more or less at random, that Senator Obama is employing almost the exact same campaign strategy Bill Clinton used to great success in both his presidential campaigns; during the primaries he stuck with what brought him to the table by sticking to the issues that made his constiuency (blacks & kids) and left to far left leaning liberals come out for him in droves. Once Obama unofficially secured the nomination he made a hard right to the center (a move he hinted at during the primaries) to appeal to America's independent, moderate majority. Traditionally America's moderate majority loves candidates that offer some degree of comfort regarding those 800lb gorilla issues such as taxes, national defense, cultural dynamism and economic prosperity. If Obama wins the big prize in the Fall he can then put his core constiuency's fears to rest by drifting back to the far left and with the help of his fellow Democrats, proceed to run wild with irresponsible legislation and reckless spending until America's disgust with single party rule kicks the Dems back into the minority in the Senate & House in 2010. Sound familiar?

And the band played on and on and on...

[CountArach]

If Obama wins the big prize in the Fall he can then put his core constiuency's fears to rest by drifting back to the far left and with the help of his fellow Democrats, proceed to run wild with irresponsible legislation and reckless spending until America's disgust with single party rule kicks the Dems back into the minority in the Senate & House in 2010.

I was in agreement with you up until here. This one sentence ruined what would otherwise have been some perfect political analysis.

There is NO WAY IN HELL that Obama is out here on the Far Left.