New PC (finally)

[Andres]

Hmmm, ok, I've looked at the website of the other shop (where they offer better service, so it seems, and are much friendlier and helpful on the phone)

I can have this:

Processor - AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 6400+ - AM2 - 3,20 GHz - with Original AMD Cooler
Mainboard ATX Asus M2N-SLI (AMD AM2, nForce 560, USB 2.0, gigabit lan, SATA, audio 8 channel, firewire, ...)
Memory DDR2 Dimm 2Gb 800 mhz (PC6400) (x 2)
Harddisk 320GB - 7200rpm - PATA133
Videocard PCI-E GeForce 8800GT- 512MB DDR3 - Silent fan
DvD Writer Dual Layer 16x black front - DVD +/- R(w) & CDr(w) - IDE
Case Antec Sonata III Low Noise + 500 watt power supply
Microsoft - Windows Vista64 Home Premium NL oem

for +/- 880,00 € (and the guy on the phone told me that I can get an additional discount if I order all components at his shop). Seems like a better deal. They don't seem to have the Radeon 4850 on stock, but maybe they can order it. I've compared prices, and it should be available for about 179 €, which is
30 € less expensive then the GeForce 8800 GT. But which is the better card? Or is the difference so small that it doesn't really matter? Isn't Radeon better compatable with AMD then GeForce (or does that question shows that I don't know about hardware )

Two questions about that system:

a) AMD vs INTEL : is this AMD processor good enough for gaming? I'm under the impression that AMD gives me a better price/quality... (a comparable INTEL system would cost me about 100 € more)
b) I remember something about cooling issues with AMD. Should I go for an additional CPU cooler or does that problem no longer exists with AMD ?

And to complete my display of total lack of knowledge: does Vista come with words/outlook/excel or do I have to buy that seperately? Or is there any decent freeware that does the same and is compatible with Windows Vista? Can I still use my good ol' Office 2000 package on a Vista PC?

[pevergreen]

And to complete my display of total lack of knowledge: does Vista come with words/outlook/excel or do I have to buy that seperately? Or is there any decent freeware that does the same and is compatible with Windows Vista? Can I still use my good ol' Office 2000 package on a Vista PC?

When my XPS1530 arrived with Vista preinstalled, i had a set of programs that are by looks the same, but called Microsoft Works. Seemed to have another version of Word/Excel maybe access, but not outlook, Windows Mail.

This is all Vista Home Premuim.

[FactionHeir]

Afaik Works is different from Office. Works is more or less the cheaper and older variant of Office or so.

[Lemur]

a) AMD vs INTEL : is this AMD processor good enough for gaming? I'm under the impression that AMD gives me a better price/quality... (a comparable INTEL system would cost me about 100 € more)

Actually, as much as I love AMD, your info is out-of-date. Dollar-for-dollar, Intel is faster these days. However, a 3.2 mhz dual-core AMD chip should get you through most gaming situations just fine. It's that videocard that worries me ...

[Andres]

Actually, as much as I love AMD, your info is out-of-date. Dollar-for-dollar, Intel is faster these days. However, a 3.2 mhz dual-core AMD chip should get you through most gaming situations just fine. It's that videocard that worries me ...

Which one? The Radeon 4850 or the GeForce 8800 GT?

Do you recommend something else in about the same price category?

[Lemur]

Oh, the Radeon 4850 sounds peachy to me. No, it's the 8800GT that seems a little under-muscled for the price. And what is the price, anyway? There's no breakdown by component. Can you give me a link to the place where you're shopping? That could be really helpful ...

[Andres]

Here you go. It's one of the least expensive shops around here.

Mind you, they only list what they have in stock, but you can order about anything. The Radeon 4850 comes at 179 €, the GeForce at 210 €.

http://www.bitz.be/

[Lemur]

I think I can state with some authority that Bitz Computers' web site makes my eyes bleed. Okay, are you willing to order part-by-part, or do you need it to be pre-assembled? And if you swap a part around, will they work with you? That's half the benefit of working with a local shop, right?

-edit-

Man, I do not know how you navigate that web site without having a nervous breakdown. Here's the processor I'd suggest:

11744 Processor Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 - 3 GHz 6MB S775 - 1333 FSB 45 nm - With Original Intel Cooler 173,00

Can't even find the relevant video cards. I'll take your word for them.

[Andres]

I think I can state with some authority that Bitz Computers' web site makes my eyes bleed. Okay, are you willing to order part-by-part, or do you need it to be pre-assembled? And if you swap a part around, will they work with you? That's half the benefit of working with a local shop, right?

I can order part-by-part and they assemble it free of charge. They call it "PC à la carte" (I can't assemble it myself )

[Andres]

Just got back from the friendly guy at Bitz' computers.

This is what I ordered:

Processor - AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 6400+ - AM2 - 3,20 GHz - with Original AMD Cooler
Mainboard ATX Asus M2N-SLI (AMD AM2, nForce 560, USB 2.0, gigabit lan, SATA, audio 8 channel, firewire, ...)
Memory DDR2 Dimm 2Gb 800 mhz (PC6400) (x 2)
Harddisk 320GB - 7200rpm - PATA133
ATI Radeon HD4850 PCIE 512 MB
DvD Writer Dual Layer 16x black front - DVD +/- R(w) & CDr(w) - IDE
Case Antec Sonata III Low Noise + 500 watt power supply
Microsoft - Windows Vista32 Home Premium NL oem
+assembling.

All of this for 834,00 € (VAT (21%!) included)

He had to order the Radeon 4850. If all goes well, the PC should be ready next Friday

I have 200 GB on my current system which I can use for, eh, educational software.

Thnx for the advice guys. Very much appreciated

[seireikhaan]

Andres, you're Vista won't be taking full advantage of your RAM because the 32 bit Vista only works up for up to 3 G of RAM.

However, granted, you're computer seems quite good otherwise.

1$ = 1€ when talking about computer hardware, and probably some other things as well, in some cases the number in € is even higher than in $...

Thanks, didn't realize that.

[Andres]

Casts resurrection spell on thread.

Ok, 3 years later, and I'm still using this:

This is what I ordered:

Processor - AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 6400+ - AM2 - 3,20 GHz - with Original AMD Cooler
Mainboard ATX Asus M2N-SLI (AMD AM2, nForce 560, USB 2.0, gigabit lan, SATA, audio 8 channel, firewire, ...)
Memory DDR2 Dimm 2Gb 800 mhz (PC6400) (x 2)
Harddisk 320GB - 7200rpm - PATA133
ATI Radeon HD4850 PCIE 512 MB
DvD Writer Dual Layer 16x black front - DVD +/- R(w) & CDr(w) - IDE
Case Antec Sonata III Low Noise + 500 watt power supply
Microsoft - Windows Vista32 Home Premium NL oem
+assembling.

I'm a satisfied customer; no upgrades whatsoever and I can still play all games, but I'm starting to feel that my machine can't handle everything at higher settings anymore.

Ergo, I'm looking out for an upgrade.

So, here I am, looking for some advice, seeing as the advice I got here the previous time was most excellent.

I want to upgrade my processor and graphics card.

I've had my eyes on this processor: Processor - AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE - AM3 - 3.4GHz 8Mb Cache
And on this graphcis card: Videocard PCI-E ATI Radeon HD 4870 - 1GB DDR3

Questions:

1) Can I put those on the mainboard I currently have (if I need to change my mainboard as well, I might as well wait a bit longer and buy a new pc all together;
2) Do you think processor/graphics card are still good enough and I should only replace one of them (and go for something better in that category then);
3) Can I get better value for money with another CPU / graphics card.

I'm a complete idiot when it comes to these things. I assume it would be wise to wait until after Christmas/New Year before spending money (less expensive outside holiday season?).

What I want with the upgraded machine: be able to play games à la Skyrim and Deus Ex Human Revolution at better than medium settings. If you think my current machine can do just that, then please say so to; then I'll just not spend money on upgrades.

[Lemur]

Doing a little Google-fu, and I find your board can support that processer after a BIOS update, which you can grab here.

Not sure why you would want to jump from a 4850 to a 4870. Yes, you get more frame buffer, but newer cards have better efficiencies; staying in the same generation of GPU seems a little bit silly. Why not step up to a 6950 or something like that.

Last thought would be that you should upgrade to a 64-bit version of Win7. Better security, stability, able to address your full 4 gigs of RAM ... seems like a no-brainer to this lemur.

[Andres]

I take it the 6950 is better than the 6870, but more expensive? Is the difference in performance worth the difference in price?

Will my 500 watt power supply still be powerful enough after the upgrade?

[Lemur]

As for power supply, AMD recommends a 500w or more, so you meet the minimum spec. None of your other components sound like huge power drags, so you should be just fine.

As I understand it, the 6950 is the top-of-the-line with a few pipes turned off. Supposedly an excellent bang-for-buck card. Here are some recent framerate comparisons that include both cards. From the look of it, the 6870 is also a great deal.

[Andres]

Thanks for the feedback, Lemur. Much appreciated

I'll probably wait until next year before upgrading (won't have much time to play games the next few months anyway, it would be a shame to spend money and then not being able to enjoy your purchase for several months) and I think I'll settle with the 6870 and the AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE.