Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
Blame crime on low median income and opportunity. Also throw in the general Hispanic and African American demographic. That is the reality.Originally Posted by HoreTore
*looks at US crime statistics*
You might want to reconsider that opinion
If I'm confused, when do we use the firearms which we keep for protection? Who is it meant to protect.
If you are carrying a weapon and a bank is being robbed - should you use it if you get a clear shot? It isn't your home.
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 07-07-2008 at 19:41.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
The bloody trouble is we are only alive when we’re half dead trying to get a paragraph right. - Paul Scott
Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
You'll scare the elephant.
Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
A bank robbery tends to be an armed robbery, i.e. victims are usually threatened with a gun - which is very different from a situation where burglars/thieves are in the process of leaving the scene with loot.
Apart from that the idea that you get a "clear shot" during a bank robbery (i.e. you can make absolutely sure that the robber is incapacitated and has no chance to harm bystanders before and after you make your shot) seems very hypothetical.
BTW, where I live people working at a bank are strongly encouraged to simply hand over the money and to only activate the silent alarm - instead of trying to play the hero.
Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
That's the ROE of everyone except army personnel and in a few cases the police in this country. Give the guy with the weapon what he wants as quickly as possible, so that he leaves as soon as possible. Do not risk life or health over material stuff.
I'd hit a boss who told me to put my life at risk to protect a few thousand bucks.
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
Life, Liberty, and Property are not separate rights, but facets of the same inalienable right.
To defend one's own property IS to defend one's self.
The legalized inability to defend one's property is tyranny.
The criminals involved had their own right to life and property, but not at the expense of another's right. In attempting to contravene another's right to his property, they put their own rights in abeyance. When confronted, had they put down the man's personal property and exited his real property promptly, then the shotgunner would have been wrong to kill them.
The failure to defend one's property, or for the state to abet and condone such defense, is a means to chaos.
"The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman
"The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken
Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
Chalk one vote up for blowing away the shoplifting soccer mom.
"What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"
- TSM
Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
Hahaha. I'm sure that hardly anybody would do that. You would have to be dealing with somebody who was totally insane (and awesome) to react so fast that he could not only have known what was going on, gotten a weapon and decided that a middle aged woman who was fleeing with stockings was an imminent threat and a target for deadly justice.
You are comparing 2 immigrant black guys who were breaking into a home in broad daylight and did not respond to a weapon held by a neighbor with a soccer mom mall shoplifter. If you think that comparison is appropriate, I'll disagree.
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 07-07-2008 at 21:13.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
Why? Are you a coward who is not willing to sacrifice a soccer mom on the altar of "justice"?
Last edited by Ser Clegane; 07-07-2008 at 21:12.
Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
Of course not! Alright, fine - i'd kill her. You've talked me into it.Why? Are you a coward who is not willing to sacrifice a soccer mom on the altar of "justice"?
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 07-07-2008 at 21:19.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
You have to deal with each situation separately, of course. There's no absolute answer.
In your scenario, I certainly wouldn't even consider it. However, if I came across two thieves on my own property and one of them started to run towards me, things may change.
The two opposing extremes examined in this thread are only two of countless situations where one would have to make those decisions.
In other words, trying to claim that anyone who isn't completely opposed to using deadly force would gladly kill a soccor mom in cold blood is... well.. not helpful.
Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 07-07-2008 at 21:23.
Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
Murderer.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
Well boo hoo for you , Its lucky it wasn't some poor old granny run down by this thief simply for being behind the car while you are trying to play the hero for a few dollars worth of crap .I was lying on my stomach in the road.
Escalation can work out really bad , thats why the police and bank staff are trained to not bloody escalate the situationEscalation can work out quite well.
Build yourself a batcave or take your superhero crap back to the costume shopI may as well die exacting revenge or preventing a crime is all im saying.
Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
No chance, Euro bed-wetting types. I burst my pimples at you and call your batcave request a silly thing, you tiny-brained wipers of other people's bottoms!Well boo hoo for you , Its lucky it wasn't some poor old granny run down by this thief simply for being behind the car while you are trying to play the hero for a few dollars worth of crap .
Escalation can work out really bad , thats why the police and bank staff are trained to not bloody escalate the situation
Build yourself a batcave or take your superhero crap back to the costume shop
You are just jealous that I am some sort of mini punisher and you are a coward who sprinkles his own pants.
I wave my private parts at your aunties, you cheesy lot of second hand electric donkey-bottom biters.
Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 07-07-2008 at 22:27.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
PJ, sometimes i could just give you a big hug. The first sentence of your post above is exactly what I was trying to get at when I started posting in this thread:
"You have to deal with each situation separately, of course. There's no absolute answer."
Which is vastly different from the black and white, no room for argument "if they are breaking the law they deserve to be shot and killed" argument that was being made from the outset of the thread.
I would submit that in this case, even by the shooter's own after the fact admission, he made an extremely poor judgement call when dealing with this situation. He got a bad case of something just about every hunter has experienced at one time or another: buck fever. Unfortunately, the consequences in this case were not a gut-shot deer that dragged itself away into the bush to die in agony, but two human beings who died when they shouldn't have.
Last edited by Goofball; 07-07-2008 at 22:31. Reason: tyop
"What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"
- TSM
Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
Since I was one of those who said they deserved it, allow me to clarify a bit. I think there may be some common ground around here somewhere.
In my opinion, the responsibility for these men’s deaths lies directly with them and no one else. Through a series of decisions made of their own volition under no duress, they chose a path that led them into a situation where there was a reasonable expectation of serious bodily harm or even death; much the same as if they had entered a home to an awaiting Doberman with a taste for human flesh.
However, and here’s where we may agree, I don’t think it was a necessary action. I certainly wouldn’t have gone out of my home (don’t care about my neighbor’s crap), and I agree that the man’s emotions got the better of him. Not sure about anyone else on this side of the coin, but killing someone – even justifiably – is not my idea of a good time, and I don’t support vigilante justice.
Regardless, the old man with the shotgun was merely an effect - not the cause. If an individual takes up a life of crime and ends up on the wrong end of a shotgun due to their decision, they deserve to be there - and that was my point.
Re: I Told Ya So: Texas Man Cleared for Killing Burglars
Someone should call Hell and ask for ice; PJ and I agree(at least mostly) in a gun thread!
Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban
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