OOC Thread and Chatroom

[Privateerkev]

Isn't filling an army an OOC requirement? There shouldn't be any choice in the matter since we know there was massive spending last turn and not all of it was required by OOC rules to go ahead of filling out the army in question.

I guess the question I'm asking is what form the rule enforcement will take for violating an OOC rule for IC purposes?

Yes, OOC, Ignoramus the player has to fill those armies or completely halt ALL recruitment.

Completely regardless of his avatar's feelings towards some of the army owners.

But, I felt it was entirely appropriate to rant IC about this. Also, I have mentioned this to him OOC in a PM so I didn't want to be too hard on him OOC. IC however is another matter...

All I want to see OOC is that the rules are followed with regards to army fulfillment. Besides that, the rest of my rant was IC and should be taken as such.

[OverKnight]

Question for my history thread: Was there a Megas Logothetes report for the beginning of 1113? I looked around and I haven't seen it.

Now I could simply be missing it due to the confusion surrounding the pause in play, but if anyone spots it, could they send me a link?

Edit: If new troops are being recruited and aren't making their way into mandated armies, we got problems. Its hard enough to fund all the mandates without extras on top.

However, as an ex-Megas, it is difficult to keep track of who gets what. With the recent marked increase in mandated armies I'm sure this is even more diffcult.

[flyd]

Yes, OOC, Ignoramus the player has to fill those armies or completely halt ALL recruitment.

The good news is that at the current treasury level, he won't be able to start much recruitment in the first place to even have the chance to break that rule.

[ULC]

I'm letting everyone here know, I may not be on this week, or the next, or as indefinitely for that matter. I'm having RL issues with housing and school that may rob me of internet or more. Just wanted let eevryone know so if you have any questions about the Organization, defer them to GH for right now.

[Ignoramus]

Isn't filling an army an OOC requirement? There shouldn't be any choice in the matter since we know there was massive spending last turn and not all of it was required by OOC rules to go ahead of filling out the army in question.

I guess the question I'm asking is what form the rule enforcement will take for violating an OOC rule for IC purposes?

The rules says all recruitment. Ioannis interpreted that not to include the hiring of mercenaries.

[Privateerkev]

Question for my history thread: Was there a Megas Logothetes report for the beginning of 1113? I looked around and I haven't seen it.

Now I could simply be missing it due to the confusion surrounding the pause in play, but if anyone spots it, could they send me a link?

first report but Savvas rebelled. second attempt but Savvas rebelled again. 3rd attempt and the save we are working off of currently.

The good news is that at the current treasury level, he won't be able to start much recruitment in the first place to even have the chance to break that rule.

Well, it is still an appropriate thing to complain about IC. Especially since he neglected to recruit anything for Cecil at all when he was recruiting for everyone else.

The rules says all recruitment. Ioannis interpreted that not to include the hiring of mercenaries.

"If a Private or Royal Army falls below the minimum strength level, all military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Army to minimum strength before money can be spent on other recruitment, unless the owner agrees otherwise."

We can wait for TC to make a ruling on this but I'm pretty sure you can't recruit mercs to get around filling armies. And if that is why the Empire just slid into debt, the IC aspect just got even more interesting.

[Ignoramus]

Also, things are ridiculously hard to untangle of who requires what and who owns what. The fact that players can "hoard" units by getting them into garrisons means that army upkeep skyrockets.

The second report is completely true regarding the 3rd save. The problem was that I accidently uploaded the wrong save.

[Privateerkev]

Also, things are ridiculously hard to untangle of who requires what and who owns what. The fact that players can "hoard" units by getting them into garrisons means that army upkeep skyrockets.

That's why there needs to be some IC politicking on who disbands what. One of the few good things about the Order having almost nothing, is that we don't have any fat to trim.

[Ignoramus]

At least you're historically accurate. Shortages of manpower were commonplace among the Crusader states.

[OverKnight]

Cool, found the report. Sorry, I'm in the middle of a long and blurry work day.

History should be up to date.

[Privateerkev]

At least you're historically accurate. Shortages of manpower were commonplace among the Crusader states.

True but that will do little to placate me IC.

[Cecil XIX]

Honestly, I can't see any way to enforce OOC army requirements aside from the usual Senate/Diet discipline. I was waiting for it to come up in KotR but it never did (it came close a few times...). Unless TC does a quick rewrite, we're just gonna have go with the old standby and impeach Ignoramus.

It's gotten me thinking. Since their's no clear criteria for how to go about fulfilling the army requirements, why not have the Houses do it themselves? They could select where and what to recruit from their own lands only, and tell the Megas what they've done to prevent confusion. I fear that without any clear OOC criteria for how to go about it, it will be difficult to avoid reverting to IC criteria. Of course, that could exacerbate the 'hoarding' problem, but it could also bring things to a head and force us to find a solution. How does that sound to everyone?

[Privateerkev]

Alright, in light of Ig's IC comments, I am now a little confused as to how much of this issue is IC or OOC.

As TC has laid out before, private armies are important planks to our rule system. Therefore, a Megas can't just refuse to build one. No matter how much the character hates the army owner, the player has to gather troops for the army. TC said to RP it as an influential lord calling for local levies.

Now, Ig has admitted both OOC and IC that he did not build the army on purpose. This issue now has elements that are both IC and OOC.

IC, the Megas is basically refusing to do his job.

OOC, the player did not follow the rules because he thought he found a loophole to get around them.

So, while I'm more than happy to keep pushing this IC, what do we do about it OOC?

I find Cecil's idea interesting but I see great potential for people getting their wires crossed. It's one of those things that sounds good in theory but I can see confusion over who recruits where and for what. And I don't know how it would affect the player that is the Megas. The job already sounds pretty confusing as it is.

[OverKnight]

Ignoramus, clear some space for PMs. I want to talk about puppies and sunshine.

[AussieGiant]

Igno can you PLEASE get your inbox in order.

[AussieGiant]

Igno can you PLEASE get your inbox in order.

Did I mention sleeping is no excuse Igno!!

[Ramses II CP]

The good news is that at the current treasury level, he won't be able to start much recruitment in the first place to even have the chance to break that rule.

The point is that he did break it, just now, for IC reasons. In a turn when he spent three turns worth of Crusader support funds on various other stuff.

I want it to be absolutely clear that if we hand out a pass here this rule is going to be ignored in the future. It's difficult to keep track of and it goes against a character's IC inclinations. If there's no enforcement this time it would be better simply to take the rule out.

Oh, and FYI we settled the mercenaries being recruitment bit during the test game. They are, and yes you have to do the required armies first, even if it means hiring mercenaries. This isn't a matter of interpretation and I find it very annoying that we're required to remind our Megas of rules matters that are long settled. Furthermore there couldn't be any non-prioritized construction unless there was recruitment done first, nor building ships, watch towers, forts, etc.

[Ignoramus]

Sorry. People keep Pming me. Space now, guarenteed.

[_Tristan_]

The point is that he did break it, just now, for IC reasons. In a turn when he spent three turns worth of Crusader support funds on various other stuff.

I want it to be absolutely clear that if we hand out a pass here this rule is going to be ignored in the future. It's difficult to keep track of and it goes against a character's IC inclinations. If there's no enforcement this time it would be better simply to take the rule out.

Oh, and FYI we settled the mercenaries being recruitment bit during the test game. They are, and yes you have to do the required armies first, even if it means hiring mercenaries. This isn't a matter of interpretation and I find it very annoying that we're required to remind our Megas of rules matters that are long settled.

Exactly the reason why I sued for impeachment IC...

[TinCow]

Ig, since you are online I would be greatful if you could decide on the adoption issue right now while I'm working on the save.

[AussieGiant]

Well there seems to be a technicality now with TC's last post.

We'll have to wait and see what the final situation is before continuing IC.

[Kagemusha]

Tincow, while you are working with the save, could you move my character towards Constantinopole, so i dont have to take the save for that?

[TinCow]

Sure thing.

[Ignoramus]

I'll adopt Ioannis Kantakouzinos.

Sorry TC. I didn't know you'd put a special save up. Sorry for all the inconvinience. I'm really sorry to everyone if I'm mucking up the game OOC.

[TinCow]

Sorry TC. I didn't know you'd put a special save up. Sorry for all the inconvinience. I'm really sorry to everyone if I'm mucking up the game OOC.

Not a problem, and relatively easily fixed. I'm glad the solution to the treasury problem was this simple.

[Kagemusha]

Thanks TC. Igno, can you make a public statement about the adoption in the Magnaura, so my character can thank yours.

[Cecil XIX]

I find Cecil's idea interesting but I see great potential for people getting their wires crossed. It's one of those things that sounds good in theory but I can see confusion over who recruits where and for what. And I don't know how it would affect the player that is the Megas. The job already sounds pretty confusing as it is.

That's why I said the nobles should tell the Megas when the do so. Something like "Here's the save back, I recruted two units of peasent archers at Nicosia for my private army." Having Lords choose their own soldiers seems to be in the spirit of the OOC interpretation of what is happening IC.

[AussieGiant]

I've done that when I was Chancellor Cecil...in the end I requested people send me their recruiting orders...because...again the order in which it is done in relation to a finite amount of money is that there is "The Quick and The Dead."

[Ramses II CP]

Is it now our plan to proceed with matters as though the rules were not ignored with respect to the filling out of the private army? If we do so I believe we should simply propose a CA striking the private armies from the rules at the next session and allow the Megas to recruit whatever he wants.

Igno has freely admitted he broke an OOC rule for IC purposes. This suggests to me that either we shouldn't have OOC rules at all, or we should have some method for their enforcement.

[Privateerkev]

I'm glad the money situation is figured out.

But the Megas still broke the actual Rules. Not just mamby-pamby edicts.

I'll lay out the case IC. Stay tuned...