Karadzic arrested

[Fragony]

scuzi bumpage, for the omghowcouldyou-crowd;

http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/ihralija1.htm

[Tribesman]

Very nice frag , you only have to get as far as the 3rd paragraph before you realise that "historian" is definately talking bollox .
Well done .

[Fragony]

Very nice frag , you only have to get as far as the 3rd paragraph before you realise that "historian" is definately talking bollox .
Well done .

Sure, read something else huh, it's a dirty dirty game. Serbs have been mauled by the red machine, won't be going there for a quite some time. As I said earlier I know people that were there, it will make your ears bleed. We backed the wrong folks and the rest is show.

[Tribesman]

As I said earlier I know people that were there,

As you said earlier you know someone who is clearly a scumbag who shares your hatred of people who are of a certain faith . Big deal .

[HoreTore]

scuzi bumpage, for the omghowcouldyou-crowd;

http://www.hirhome.com/yugo/ihralija1.htm

So.... It's OK for Serb loonies to massacre innocent Bosnians because there are Bosnian loonies who want to massacre innocent Serbs?

[Sarmatian]

So.... It's OK for Serb loonies to massacre innocent Bosnians because there are Bosnian loonies who want to massacre innocent Serbs?

They didn't want to massacre, they massacred. Subtle, yet important distinction. I think the point is that good guys/bad guys routine can't be applied here. Overall strategy of all sides was ethnic cleansing, by intimidation and forced relocation. Murders and massacres were byproducts of that strategy rather than the main goal. But I don't want to venture off topic to much.

Today it was first appearance of Karadzic at the Hague. He didn't enter a plea, partly because he didn't study have the time to study the indictment properly and partly because the prosecution is already preparing a new, bigger one. I don't know what new information the prosecution have now that they didn't have in the last ten years, but it will be interesting to see.

Also, Karadzic spoke publicly about a deal with Richard Holbrooke under which he was supposed to leave politics and public life in general and not appear in the Hague. Public opinion in Serbia for years was that some kind of a deal with the US existed, mainly because there was no pressure from the tribunal to find him. Every couple of weeks there were statements or visits from the Hague to remind and put pressure that Mladic get's there, but there was no pressure for Karadzic. He was scarcely even mentioned.

This is gonna be interesting to watch. I hope that they continue with live broadcast.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The whole of the Balkans just makes me think of and endless series of MTW:

"Faction Re-emergence"

messages. It's the ultimate in whack-a-mole....

[HoreTore]

They didn't want to massacre, they massacred. Subtle, yet important distinction.

So... It is okay for serb loonies to massacre innocent bosnians because there are bosnian loonies who massacred innocent serbs...?

Hey, here's an idea, why not shoot those who massacre people, instead of shooting innocent people!

[Brenus]

"why not shoot those who massacre people, instead of shooting innocent people!" Well, it is what they thought they were doing... That is the problem when you take justice in your own hands and made mistake...

By the way, it was impossible in Bosnia to make a difference between civilian and fighters. Every male had to do 2 weeks on the front and 2 weeks at home... It was a CIVIL war, and not a country (Serbia) invading others countries (bosnia and Croatia)... It was far more complexe...

[HoreTore]

Well, it is what they thought they were doing...

Not even close to acceptable.

By the way, it was impossible in Bosnia to make a difference between civilian and fighters. Every male had to do 2 weeks on the front and 2 weeks at home...

So.... In WW2, it would've been OK for the allies to shoot german children, since they could be enlisted in the Hitlerjugend...?

[Sarmatian]

So... It is okay for serb loonies to massacre innocent bosnians because there are bosnian loonies who massacred innocent serbs...?

Please HoreTore, don't advocate shooting of innocent Bosniaks.

Vast majority of those killed in Srebrenica were far from innocent. That doesn't make it any less wrong, mind you, they should have been treated as POW's.

One very important aspect of the war, and one of the main reasons for so many "civilian" casualties is that fighting were for the most part done by paramilitary groups or armed forces that evolved from paramilitary groups. JNA (Yugoslav People's Army) was the only legal armed force in Yugoslavia. JNA tried to maintain its distance and only reacted defensively when it was directly attacked. Those paramilitary groups consisted in part of true patriots, but mostly of nationalists and criminals who saw the potential to get rich quickly. This was especially true in Serbia and in Bosnia. So, fighting was often done by groups of people without uniforms, clear chain of command or military structure. So in the end, you could just take a gun from a corpse of a killed combatant and voila, you've got a civilian casualty, so useful for propaganda. It was very difficult to discern soldier from a civilian. A lot of civilian casualties were actually combatants.

You're idea about shooting those responsible instead of civilians is great. But, unfortunately, some of them are dead and some of them are either current or ex presidents, foreign ministers, generals, special envoys of Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, US, NATO, Germany, UK, France etc... and it is very hard to get those people to appear at a court. Actually, it could be done for those from Serbia, Croatian and Bosnia for the most part, but it is nearly impossible to get to others from the list...

[Tribesman]

A lot of civilian casualties were actually combatants.

What was that village outside Srebrenica where 3/4 of the civilian casualties from the place were really soldiers and on top of that 3 times that amount who were claimed to have been casualties in that village were soldiers whose bodies had been transported to the village from other locations ?
What was it again , 48 were killed there , 11 of them were civilians and 168 other soldiers bodies were bought there .
Gets confusing doesn't it .

[HoreTore]

A lot of civilian casualties were actually combatants.

That simply does not matter even a tiny bit. Karadzic is still a butcher. There's is no excuse for his actions, no justification. He is still the same butcher regardless of what else was going on. He knowingly and willingly accepted the killing of innocent people, and that cannot be tolerated under any circumstances.

[Sarmatian]

What was that village outside Srebrenica where 3/4 of the civilian casualties from the place were really soldiers and on top of that 3 times that amount who were claimed to have been casualties in that village were soldiers whose bodies had been transported to the village from other locations ?
What was it again , 48 were killed there , 11 of them were civilians and 168 other soldiers bodies were bought there .
Gets confusing doesn't it .

It does, thanks for furthering my point.

That simply does not matter even a tiny bit. Karadzic is still a butcher. There's is no excuse for his actions, no justification. He is still the same butcher regardless of what else was going on. He knowingly and willingly accepted the killing of innocent people, and that cannot be tolerated under any circumstances.

If he is a butcher than he doesn't have to be afraid. Hague usually let's butchers go free as we've seen in Oric and Haradinay cases...

I don't care about Karadzic, Mladic and similar scum. My only objection is that they should have been put on trial in Serbia or Republika Srpska...