"The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr."
“I only defended myself and the honor of my family” - Nazanin
Link with video (though lots of it appears to be self-propelled artillery like the 2S3 Akatsiya instead of tanks as advertised)
Business as usual. Everyone knows they're lying, and everyone knows what they're actually doing. But if they said what they're actually doing, they would have an international outcry.
Why? We have two breakaway countries. As it seems right now, Georgia has just attacked one of these countries, and the other country and Russia came to the aid of that country.
Last edited by Evil_Maniac From Mars; 08-08-2008 at 18:46.
Wow!...This happened really fast. In my personal opinion(and I'm no expert in the Russian world of Politics), but I'd say let them go at it. If it means no war with Russia or a World War Three in general. Then good. There is no point in escalating into a conventional war with a nuclear power over a little meaningless province. Yes, it's horrible that civilians, soldiers are probably being killed as we speak, but if it mean thousands or millions more are spared from being drawn into this conflict then so be it. Lets hope that they keep it to South Ossetia and not spread the fighting to the rest of Georgia, though, if Georgia mobilizes and calls up more troops, then that might happen.
Russians engaging GeorgiansRussia "suppressed" Georgia fire in South Ossetia
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian soldiers now in the South Ossetian capital say their artillery has begun firing at Georgian forces - the first confirmed engagement between the two countries' troops, Russian agencies reported.
"Georgian troop positions firing on Tskhinvali and peacekeepers were suppressed by artillery fire and tank units of the 58th Army, which are outside the capital of South Ossetia," Russian army Colonel Igor Konashenkov, television channel Vesti-24 quoted him as saying.
"No one said it was gonna be easy! If it was, everyone would do it..that's who you know who really wants it."
All us men suffer in equal parts, it's our lot in life, and no man goes without a broken heart or a lost love. Like holding your dog as he takes his last breath and dies in your arms, it's a rite of passage. Unavoidable. And honestly, I can't imagine life without that depth of feeling.-Bierut
IrishArmenian, where are you when we need Caucasian politics explained???
EMFM: The opening picture is of T-80s with reactive armor, followed by a rolling clip of the self-propelled artillery and what look like BMDs (or a similar model).
The two 'countries' mentioned, Abkanaz (or something similar) and Southern Ossetia are regions that are under Georgian control. One region, specifically Southern Ossetia, agreed to a ceasefire, but then attacked Georgian forces. Now Russian 'peacekeepers' are rolling in with the heavy stuff, protecting 'Russian' civilians, attacking Georgian troops, and supporting an insurrectionist movement. Abkanaz rebels have been moving in to assist, but to my knowledge, Georgia still remains in control.Why? We have two breakaway countries. As it seems right now, Georgia has just attacked one of these countries, and the other country and Russia came to the aid of that country.
As such, Georgia can either
1. Play dead and let Ossetia be overrun by Russian peacekeepers, who will probably stay for some time.
2. Fight back hard and fast, driving back Rebel and Russian forces, fighting them off until outside intervention.
3. Forget about the two provinces, and let bygones be bygones.
Georgia now is at a turning point. They can either continue the battles against Russia, or they can stop. It's going to be interesting to see if the Russians can get to Atlanta.
"Nietzsche is dead" - God
"I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96
Re: Pursuit of happiness
Have you just been dumped?
I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.
I'm pretty ignorant on the entire Caucasus, but I'd pick option #3 outlined in Marshall Murat's post. Clinging on to regions that don't want you is:
A) immoral
B) usually not worth it, anyway
Plus it seems rather far fetched to assume a country like Georgia could take and keep a region that wants to be part of Russia and wich Russia is willing to defend if necessary.
Does anyone know how the south Ossetians came to being Russian citizens?
Like people in East Karelia were Russian Citizens in 1938 (roll eyes).
I think it's Russian citizens living in Georgia (KGB plants???) who work there, and some have been killed (perhaps justly, maybe injustly, who knows?). SO Russia has responded like the Americans did in Latin America, Brits in India and Africa.
"Nietzsche is dead" - God
"I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96
Re: Pursuit of happiness
Have you just been dumped?
I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.
Russian forces exchange heavy fire with Georgians.
Yes, I know, it's just a small gripe I have with the news service..."Video of Russian tanks rolling in to South Ossetia"...well, partially, but the video is mostly 2S3 Akatsiyas, BMDs, and BMPs. Anyways, moving on.
That's actually not true. Firstly, South Ossetia is partly under Georgian control. Secondly, Georgia did break the ceasefire, as outlined in the article. They admit having done so.The two 'countries' mentioned, Abkanaz (or something similar) and Southern Ossetia are regions that are under Georgian control. One region, specifically Southern Ossetia, agreed to a ceasefire, but then attacked Georgian forces.
The Georgians launched an operation after a ceasefire had been agreed to.Originally Posted by BBC
If anyone intervenes, they will be a fool to do so.2. Fight back hard and fast, driving back Rebel and Russian forces, fighting them off until outside intervention.
Not sure, though I suspect the North Ossetians and the close relations the South Ossetians have to Russia must have something to do with it. Besides, it's handy to have a good passport that lets you travel if you're rebelling against the country that issues your other one...
Last edited by Evil_Maniac From Mars; 08-08-2008 at 20:54.
When we mettion Russian peacekeepers, are we talking about UN backed peacekeepers or Russian backed troops keeping the peace.
When I said 'outside intervention' I can understand how it could be taken as "military intervention". However, I meant intervention by outside groups to prevent further escalation and killing, which might include military intervention, or it could be diplomatic intervention.fighting them off until outside intervention.
Otherwise, thank you for correcting my mistake.
"Nietzsche is dead" - God
"I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96
Re: Pursuit of happiness
Have you just been dumped?
I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.
I'm guessing it was probably done so that Russia would have casus belli against Georgia when the Georgians inevitably tried to retake the region.Originally Posted by Fenring
![]()
"Don't believe everything you read online."
-Abraham Lincoln
Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 08-08-2008 at 22:09. Reason: Who mispells awkward???
Ideally, Georgia takes its hits and moves on. Who's right and who's wrong here is damned murky - suffice to say that those suffering are South Ossetian civilians, be they Russian or Georgian. If Georgia does decide to put up a serious fight it'll be shown just how toothless NATO is against Russia for all to see - they can't and won't intervene. So I hope it doesn't come to that.
"The facts of history cannot be purely objective, since they become facts of history only in virtue of the significance attached to them by the historian." E.H. Carr
So is this a case of appeasement by allowing Russia to absorb two areas? Is it a case of simple peace-keeping?
"Nietzsche is dead" - God
"I agree, although I support China I support anyone discovering things for Science and humanity." - lenin96
Re: Pursuit of happiness
Have you just been dumped?
I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.
It's more like the Anchluss than the annexation of Czechoslovakia, if you want to compare. To my knowledge, if two countries want to join, it is not our right to stop them. That is up to the people of those nations. If they didn't want to join and Russia forced them, that would be something else altogether.
Last edited by Evil_Maniac From Mars; 08-08-2008 at 22:10.
"I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
"Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
"I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006
It wants to be part of Russia, I believe, but that's not the issue. When you get down to it, it's essentially Russia absorbing a chunk of land at Georgia's expense. It would be more of the Anschluss if South Ossetia was an independent nation and they had agreed to Russian hegemony at the expense of the Allies (in this case, Georgia). This smacks more of the Sudentenland to me.
"I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
"Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
"I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006
Last edited by CrossLOPER; 08-08-2008 at 22:40.
Requesting suggestions for new sig.
![]()
-><-
![]()
![]()
![]()
GOGOGO
GOGOGO WINLAND
WINLAND ALL HAIL TECHNOVIKING!SCHUMACHER!
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
"I'm going to die anyway, and therefore have nothing more to do except deliberately annoy Lemur." -Orb, in the chat
"Lemur. Even if he's innocent, he's a pain; so kill him." -Ignoramus
"I'm going to need to collect all of the rants about the guilty lemur, and put them in a pretty box with ponies and pink bows. Then I'm going to sprinkle sparkly magic dust on the box, and kiss it." -Lemur
Mafia: Promoting peace and love since June 2006
I don't care who started but I would rather support theory that it was Russian side.
Some months ago Georgia , Azerbeijan and Turkey signed treaty about international gas pipe beetwen Azerbeijan and Turkey - it could break Russian position into Europe.
But if we have war into Georgia.....
But I think we all have to agree on one thing : Georgians have eggs - they are not afraid and fight.
John Thomas Gross - liar who want put on Poles responsibility for impassivity of American Jews during holocaust
Georgia did not start this. South Ossetia is Georgian territory in rebellion. Russia should understand this as they would flip out if another nation sent troops into Chechnya after giving Chechen civilians free passports and declaring them citizens of the other country.
The U.S. would have been pissed if the U.K. declared the Confederacy an off-shoot of the British Empire.
Russia does not respect Georgian sovereignty and is attempting to get the ball rolling before Georgia enters NATO. This is also one of the many actions they have been taking to spit in the face of the U.S. and E.U. over missile defense. Russia is rapidly entering the fray as a big bad guy in world affairs - Iranian Uranium Program support, enabling of the Sudanese in Darfur, Russian arms supply to Venezuela, resumption of nuclear flights between Russia and Cuba, and now the invasion and annexation of land in a sovereign country.
They may need to have their noses bloodied very soon. Hopefully Georgia can do that for us.
"That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-Eric "George Orwell" Blair
"If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
(Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Bookmarks