A case for the removal of the Augustan Reforms!

**Hax** · 08-13-2008, 09:53

I think, however, that it will still be nice to leave the Imperator trait

Imperator? You mean the guy that has crushed a certain faction that will get a triumph-trait?

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Also, I'm surprised about how much people are against the Augustan reforms here.

**Gaivs** · 08-13-2008, 12:12

Originally Posted by Hax

Imperator? You mean the guy that has crushed a certain faction that will get a triumph-trait?

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Also, I'm surprised about how much people are against the Augustan reforms here.

Why? To be brutally honest and blunt, they are useless. No offence to the creators of them, they are great units, but the system EB has set up for them completely negates their even being in the mod. Its the same argument the team uses for not having LS, ie it only appears around 9 BC. Well Augustus did his reforms two decades before that? For a whopping 20 years you should have Imperial legionaries. Not a viable unit imo.

**Che Roriniho** · 08-13-2008, 12:48

Originally Posted by Gaivs

Why? To be brutally honest and blunt, they are useless. No offence to the creators of them, they are great units, but the system EB has set up for them completely negates their even being in the mod. Its the same argument the team uses for not having LS, ie it only appears around 9 BC. Well Augustus did his reforms two decades before that? For a whopping 20 years you should have Imperial legionaries. Not a viable unit imo.

True, but so many people like them, perhaps only keep, I dunno, say the Praetorian guard, for custom battles? it's such a beutiful unit...

**Foot** · 08-13-2008, 20:43

Thread Tools -> Add Poll to Thread. That might just be a moderator thing though. Don't know.

Foot

**Remco** · 08-14-2008, 16:50

Originally Posted by Foot

Thread Tools -> Add Poll to Thread. That might just be a moderator thing though. Don't know.

Foot

Doesn't work for me. Most be a moderator thing.

**bigmilt16** · 08-16-2008, 04:52

This is a rather interesting debate, because I have been an exclusive Romani player since I started playing EB and in the countless campaigns I have played, I have honestly reached the Marian Reforms less than five times and have never reached the Imperial Reforms.

It's simple, most die-hard Roman players have never legitimately reached that stage, so why miss something you've never seen. The real question is why have so few been able to reach the Imperial reforms without cheating, losing their minds, or having Ptolemy be the only enemy left on the map by the time they reach it.

Why? Because although the mod is designed to be played out for hundreds of years, the AI's bloodlust against you forces many reasonable players to either win the game, or quit out of frustration, far before even the Marian (nevertheless the Imperial) reforms. This makes the Imperial reforms useless, because not only are there no real enemies left to attack, but the imperial units are just different looking Marian units. When the AI forces you to be at war on so many fronts, nonstop, without the possibility of a ceasefire, it is easy to see why so many dedicated Roman players get burned out or frustrated before they reach the Imperial Reforms.

With all of this, I would say keep it for now. Since the AI can be programmed in EBII let's wait and see what happens. Although I totally understand not having imperial reforms in EB I.

**Lord Of Ruin** · 08-16-2008, 08:38

If it truly does have to come down to removing old units to add units for the new factions why would you remove something that is so symbolic to one of the most important nations in history? Why not just remove units like the civic guards from the Marian reforms? or the unit (cant remember name off the top of my head) that is below the hastati? both of those units have little or now tactical or strategic value. Or if you are truly desperate why not take out some of the redundant and generic skirmisher units? There are so many kinds that iv lost count and many are sub par. Augustan units are a goal that players seek when playing Rome and I have campaigns that have come close to acquiring them without cheating and im sure many others have as well.

**Lord_Phan** · 08-16-2008, 14:13

Using the armour upgrade system you can use multiple skins for the same unit.

**||Lz3||** · 08-16-2008, 17:20

Originally Posted by Lord Of Ruin

If it truly does have to come down to removing old units to add units for the new factions why would you remove something that is so symbolic to one of the most important nations in history?

that...

**The General** · 08-16-2008, 17:38

I'm all for removing them.

Most people will never get them anyway, and to use so many of the precious unit slots for one faction's needs (even if it is Rome)...

**QuintusSertorius** · 08-17-2008, 11:43

Originally Posted by Lord Of Ruin

If it truly does have to come down to removing old units to add units for the new factions why would you remove something that is so symbolic to one of the most important nations in history? Why not just remove units like the civic guards from the Marian reforms? or the unit (cant remember name off the top of my head) that is below the hastati? both of those units have little or now tactical or strategic value. Or if you are truly desperate why not take out some of the redundant and generic skirmisher units? There are so many kinds that iv lost count and many are sub par. Augustan units are a goal that players seek when playing Rome and I have campaigns that have come close to acquiring them without cheating and im sure many others have as well.

Because the Marian reforms (and thus units related to it) are reach-able. Imperial reforms few people actually reach without cheating, and frankly with the campaign AI as it is, the situation when it does arrive bears little resemblance to how things were in history.

**Remco** · 08-17-2008, 12:05

Please vote in the poll I opened in a seperate thread.

**chairman** · 08-17-2008, 20:34

I voted yes to remove the Augustan reforms in the poll thread, but I wonder if it would work to integrate a few of the Augustan units into either the Marian set or a sub-reform of a couple of units (aka the Praetorian guards) if you accomplish the Augustan requirements. This would free up the majority of the Imperial unit slots for other factions, while keeping the signiture units (Praetorians) so that people can still have the feeling of building the Roman Principate.

Another idea is that the Team could leave the decision up to the players when they install the game whether to include the Augustans or have other factions' units in the game.

Chairman