I Stand Converted

[caravel]

PS - on the original poster: Rock - Paper - Scissors

Hm?

Spears beats cavalry beats swords beats spears.

"Spears" refers to units such as Spearmen, Feudal Sergeants, Saracen Infantry etc.
"Cavalry" is anything mounted, including camel mounted units.
"Swords" includes swordsmen, axes and polearms.

This is the general rule as to how melee works in STW/MTW.

It is only a general rule and has some exceptions. For example despite being classified as "swords", polearms also beat cavalry, though they are still more vulnerable to cavalry charges than spear units. Vanilla Horse Archers may be cut to pieces by even Trebizond Archers. Also upgrades and valour can totally unbalance the "RPS" system with well upgraded high valour spearmen defeating swordsmen for example.

[Lokiss]

Spears beats cavalry beats swords beats spears.

"Spears" refers to units such as Spearmen, Feudal Sergeants, Saracen Infantry etc.
"Cavalry" is anything mounted, including camel mounted units.
"Swords" includes swordsmen, axes and polearms.

Oh, I knew that, I just hadn't heard it referred to as Rock - Paper - Scissors.

[jadast]

I have recently begun using foot missle units on offense. I get into a duel with defensive archers and then retreat usally with the defenders following me. Repeat until the defenders are close enough to charge but far enough from their lines to be supported. Once I route the defending missle units I reform my missle units and try to whittle away the rest of the defense.

Of course the AI doesn't always let me do this!

[Motep]

In RTW was where I first valued the missile units, at watching a horde of cretan archers decimate a roman army, a battle in which I was outnumbered 3 to 2, but still managed to only lose 10 men tio their 500 or so. I noted their destructive froce in seige defense, and fell in love, so to speak.

I found that if you place in front of your infantry at the onset of battle, you can wreak havoc on the enemy soldiers as they mach to greet your men. Once they get too close, you place them behind your infantry and turn skirmish off. Then, you fire at the enemies rear ranks while their front ranks fight your men (to reduce friendly fire). When you run out of ammo, send them away from your ranks. They are easily protected by cavalry, and both cavalry and your archers themslves can generally take on an infantry unit that snuck around your line (very rare, especially if you use proper flank support.

[Ironsword]

My armies are rarely seen without arbalesters, longbowmen or some mounted archers. (I guess I'm just too afraid of being out-arrar'd...)

Maybe Agincourt sticks in my mind?!?

[Lokiss]

If memory serves, the victory of the English at Agincourt was due to the French heavy calvary (of which they brought toooons) getting stuck in the wet mud. I think they tested it and determined a longbow couldn't punch through the armor the French were wearing.

Hand to God.

[Ironsword]

^^I didn't know that!

But if memory serves me also, the nimbler, less armoured bowmen were able to put blades through the visors of the 'stuck' french knights, thus making good use of their support costs!

[bondovic]

If memory serves, the victory of the English at Agincourt was due to the French heavy calvary (of which they brought toooons) getting stuck in the wet mud. I think they tested it and determined a longbow couldn't punch through the armor the French were wearing.

Hand to God.

I read a paper by a physicist who'd done some calculating on this same matter. In it he mentioned a test where it was confirmed that the arrowheads in fact could penetrate the 1mm plate at about 200 metres but not the thicker type of breast plate. He also included some statistical reasoning, giving about every 100th arrow a kill. Can't remember if he included disabled horses in that figure. I think so.

The fact that the horses got stuck in the mud actually only served to prolong each wave's exposure to arrowfire, causing routes before they could reach the english line. Was it something like 15 charges made over the course of the whole day? Imagine that... "But it's MUDDY, Sir!"