U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

[KarlXII]

I hate McCain supporters as much as I hate Obama supporters. On McCains side, they support him because he's a war hero, on Obama's side, they support him because he promises change.

Now, let me take a little view from the Swede's perspective. Or a rant. Whatever.

Many McCain supporters are like many Obama supporters. They do not view their canidates political views, yet ally themselves with what they say or have been in. For Obama, this is change. For McCain, this is his time in Hanoi. Now, often McCain is praised for his "Foreign experience", however, I have yet to see what that experience was. His 2 years on the POW/MIA comittee? His Armed Services Comittee work I will give him credit for. Yet, McCain supporters tend to look at his POW experience. I have to say, spending the war in a cell in Hanoi does not qualify a man to become president. Hell, Kerry was a "war hero" himself, and I have yet to see that people voted for him based off that. McCain voted against the creation of an MLK Day, and was part of the Keating Five, yet noone has said anything about this in the elections. But hey, as long as Obama (Excuse me, Osama bin Barack Ladin Saddam Hussein) is a politician, he's wrong in every way. Nope, no way will I vote for a black man, or a Muslim. Nope, he gonna die from sickel cell or someone's going to shoot him (THANK GOD).

Rant over. I'm done.

[KarlXII]

I wish to announce the unseen text for the Obama/Biden ticket commercial:

"Don't even deny your next Vice President. Middle-class guy from a middle-class family gets his law degree, works on the city council, then runs for U.S. Senate. Pure Americana. Makes you cry red white and blue.

Joe Biden eats America for breakfast and craps out union jobs. How can you not vote for him? Hell, he's served in the Senate longer than McCain! The guy could probably bench-press that pockmarked old codger. You want Russia dealt with? Ol' Joe will strap on the boots and plow some rectum.

Just look at this picture, he's out there making points and using his sagely oldness to inform the youngins. Look at his pose, it says "Man, sure I'll be your Vice President, I'm the Michael Phelps of foreign policy. I've got nothing to do, except be uber-American. I will do you the HONOR of fixing this country."

God, Joe Biden, I'm stiff as a bloody plank of all-American timber Biden used to build his log cabin."

Again, he has my vote

[Banquo's Ghost]

Let me be very clear.

This thread will return forthwith to civility and respect for other members or my warning button will get ratcheted up a full notch.

Politics is a dirty business. This is one place where we will not wallow in the mud.

Thank you kindly.

[Xiahou]

On the other hand Xiahou, it cancels out most of the "no foreign policy experience" attacks. Few people have as much experience as Biden.

EDIT: I just found this clip of Joe Biden debating Iraq. I really like this guy.

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy, I mean, that's a storybook, man."

That essentially torpedoed his latest quest for the nomination- not that people had much interest in him to begin with.

Here's a list of Biden quotes- many of which I think we'll soon be hearing in McCain ads....

*Also from that Observer interview: “But — and the ‘but’ was clearly inevitable — he doubts whether American voters are going to elect ‘a one-term, a guy who has served for four years in the Senate,’ and added: ‘I don’t recall hearing a word from Barack about a plan or a tactic.’”

*Around that time, Biden in an interview with the Huffington Post, he assessed Obama and Hillary Clinton: “The more people learn about them (Obama and Hillary) and how they handle the pressure, the more their support will evaporate.”

*December 11, 2007: “If Iowans believe campaign funds and celebrity will fix the debacle in Iraq, put the economy on track, and provide health care and education for America’s children, they should support another candidate,” said Biden for President Campaign Manager Luis Navarro. “But I’m confident that Iowans know what I know: our problems will require experience and leadership from Day One. Empty slogans will be no match for proven action on caucus night.”

And for fun, here's an ad from Biden's 1988 failed bid where he talks about how the White House isn't the place to learn how to deal with crisis- you know, you need experience.

Waiting for Biden to put his foot in his mouth and waiting to see what sort of uprising Hillary supporters have planned are the main reasons I'll be able to maintain any interest in the Dem Convention.

[woad&fangs]

Wow, a prospective candidate was taking potshots at one of his opponents, big deal. That happens every primary and in the end they all kiss and makeup. Lets not forget all the mudslinging between McCain and Romney in their primary. Then there's W who started rumors that McCain had a black baby, yet W is still endorsing McCain. Also, if you want to talk about foot in the mouth when it comes to race lets not forget Romney's "who let the dogs out moment" in Florida.

[FactionHeir]

Nevertheless, I don't think Biden fits in with Obama's change message. Biden's been in the Senate since he was 29 and is unquestionably a "Washington Insider" (besides being old), the type, that Obama said he would loathe and fight against. What Biden does do, is provide FE and NS experience, but he's the vice president, not the president, so really an advisory role.

Oh, and didn't he vote for the war?

{edit]
Just read that Biden was found plagiarizing someone else's speech during his first run for president. At least he and Obama have something in common

[Lemur]

I think Biden/Romney VP debates should be worth watching.

-edit-

I wonder how Drudge got fooled so badly. Doesn't happen often. Deliberate?

[KarlXII]

Yes, the VP debates will be a must see, personally. On one hand, you have Obama, who's got the fresh, hip, look, and appeals to many of the liberal and younger crowd, Biden's going to help. Then you have McCain, who appeals to the conservative military crowd, and his VP will be important due to his age.

[Devastatin Dave]

Atleast Biden brings the Hair Club for Men vote...

[KarlXII]

Atleast Biden brings the Hair Club for Men vote...

The deciding factor?

[woad&fangs]

This may have already been posted but apparently "Barack" is Swahili for "the chosen blessed one". Those anti-christ vibes are getting stronger...

[Dutch_guy]

The deciding factor?

Probably

[Tribesman]

This may have already been posted but apparently "Barack" is Swahili for "the chosen blessed one". Those anti-christ vibes are getting stronger...

It is swahili for blessing , it is also swahili for benevolent , fortune , luck , gift , prosperity , progress , abundance or benediction .
So I wonder which sort of baradhuli , bozi , hayawani , juha , jura , punguani , zugzuge or zuzu , came up with that little useless nugget ? Not of course suggesting that you are a mjinga for posting it woad .
Though apparently in Americanese John can mean toilet or prostitutes client so what does that say about McCain ?

[Banquo's Ghost]

It is swahili for blessing , it is also swahili for benevolent , fortune , luck , gift , prosperity , progress , abundance or benediction .
So I wonder which sort of baradhuli , bozi , hayawani , juha , jura , punguani , zugzuge or zuzu , came up with that little useless nugget ? Not of course suggesting that you are a mjinga for posting it woad .
Though apparently in Americanese John can mean toilet or prostitutes client so what does that say about McCain ?

Goodness, doesn't Swahili have a lot of words for idiot?

Clever way of showing the insinuations to be mapumbo.

[Lemur]

Too weird for News of the Weird: National Review communes with the dead, finds out that Martin Luther King Jr. would not have voted for Obama. Who knew?

By all measures, Martin Luther King Jr. was a true leader. Barack Obama, on the other hand, is just another politician — one who has demonstrated far more regard for the interests of teacher unions than for the children they are paid to serve, far more regard for the pro-abortion lobby than for the future of the black community, and far less good sense than the average person has when it comes to picking a spiritual mentor.

The positions and values of Senator Obama stand mightily against those espoused, and what’s more, practiced, by Martin Luther King Jr. Based on all these considerations, I think it is quite probable that King, were he alive today, would not vote for Barack Obama.

This might be more convincing if National Review hadn't published an article condemning Dr. King in 1964.

For years now, the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King and his associates have been deliberately undermining the foundations of internal order in this country. With their rabble-rousing demagoguery, they have been cracking the “cake of custom” that holds us together. With their doctrine of “civil disobedience,” they have been teaching hundreds of thousands of Negroes — particularly the adolescents and the children — that it is perfectly alright to break the law and defy constituted authority if you are a Negro-with-a-grievance; in protest against injustice. And they have done more than talk. They have on occasion after occasion, in almost every part of the country, called out their mobs on the streets, promoted “school strikes,” sit-ins, lie-ins, in explicit violation of the law and in explicit defiance of the public authority. They have taught anarchy and chaos by word and deed — and, no doubt, with the best of intentions — and they have found apt pupils everywhere, with intentions not of the best. Sow the wind, and reap the whirlwind.

Why invoke the undead spirit of a black leader you hated in the first place? Who knows? At this point, I cannot imagine an attack on Obama that would be considered too weird or unhinged for the rightwing talking heads. Seriously, I just can't imagine anything they wouldn't say if they thought it might stick. A Ukrainian emigre claims he saw Obama eating roasted babies? Quick, print it! Then let's run an article about how he tried to rape Mother Teresa.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Some thoughts without much elaboration:

I know little more about Biden then what I just read in one CNN and Wiki article, but he seems a good choice. He works for me.

I don't mind Biden's pro-war vote. Iraq is not that simple. I am still struggling with it after all this time myself. There are good arguments for having gone in there.

Voters who crave 'change' will already have decided on Obama. Voters with doubts about Obama's (real or perceived) lack of experience and foreign policy skillz might be reassured by a 65 year old Washingtonian insider. He's a also Northeastern Catholic and can reach out to the, let's call 'em, Clinton - democrats. Biden seems a good strategical choice.

I think I might share a fascination for American politics for the same reasons as CA: where but in US politics can you indulge yourself with a map, a spreadsheet and a calculator to understand political choices? 'What will Biden mean for Pennsylvania? And for the disenfranchised male white blue collar vote in Ohio?'
Brilliant stuff, excellent entertainment!

Obama and abortion: I'l try to avoid the discussing the merits of pro- and con abortion. I just want to say that Obama's stance makes perfect sense to me. Speaking of which, what I do like about Obama, is that he often won't settle on the easy answer. He's not afraid to choose policies that don't fit on a bumper sticker.

And speaking of bumper stickers: they needed to be in the shops as soon as possible after the announcement. My guess is that manufacturers simply printed a triple supply of Obama / [Bayh/Biden/Kaine] merchandise. Just to have it ready in time. Drudge was informed of a supply of Obama/Bayh stickers being printed and jumped to conclusions. Hah!

[Lemur]

An excellent and relatively even-handed summation of the two candidates:

Obama is politically liberal and temperamentally conservative; McCain is temperamentally liberal and politically unpredictable. Obama is cerebral; McCain is emotional. Obama is reserved, sometimes aloof; McCain is a social gadfly and seemingly terrified of being left alone and silent. Obama wins press adoration but is not close to journalists; McCain is personal friends with hacks of all sorts. Obama makes plans and executes them with sometimes chilling discipline; McCain veers from one passion to another, winging it -- and somehow pulling it off.

Obama hates to lose but is happy to hang back in a fight, allowing his opponent to overreach himself; McCain is just as competitive, but if he has ever pulled a rhetorical or political punch, it’s news to me.

Obama is a master of the rhetorical set-piece; McCain is happiest yakking it up at informal town hall meetings, telling corny jokes. Obama has a traditional family life, a solid marriage, two seemingly poised young daughters and, until recently, regularly attended church (something that seems to elude Republican presidents, for all their public religiosity). McCain dumped his first wife after she was disfigured in a car accident and married a pretty heiress. He has children from both marriages and an adopted child from a Bangladeshi orphanage.

Yes, Obama dabbled in drugs as a young man; but McCain was marinated in booze. McCain, in other words, has a good deal of George W Bush’s adolescence in him, without the born-again experience. Obama, for all his affect of cool, is actually quite nerdy. It is possible, of course, to admire both men, to like them in their very different ways and yet remain torn about which one would be best to lead America, and the world, for the next four or eight years.

[Kralizec]

McCain's celebrity ad and the one about "The One" were spot on. There are plenty of people who have put thought into it and then decided that Obama is the best choice, but the 30-40% of his following who are literally enthralled by slogans and speeches alone irritate the crap out of me.

Being new in Washington doesn't mean you're an outsider, having managed to avoid the stink of corruption in the four years that you've been there doesn't mean you're incorruptable and wanting to change things doesn't make you unique. I think Obama believes less in his own slogans and catchphrases than I do, and I don't believe them at all. There's a word for people who cultivate gullibility on such a large scale. Demagogues.

As for policies, Obama is a closet protectionist, wich I don't like. As far as I know I largely agree with him on civil rights and non-economic stuff, though I recall that he doesn't support gay marriage while I do.
I have a soft spot for McCain, partly because he routinely angers his own party by being his own man and partly because I like to be contrarian (I'd say that about 80% of the Dutch prefer Obama, or any democrat over a republican). I think that he's less likely to screw up Iraq though and I'd trust him sooner with economic issues. Sadly my guess is that he'll pick a VP candidate that will please the religious right.

If I were American I think I'd probably vote for Obama, but not eagerly.

[CountArach]

he doesn't support gay marriage

He supports Civil Unions instead.

As for policies, Obama is a closet protectionist, wich I don't like.

Not really, he was during the primaries but he really isn't now.

[Tribesman]

There's a word for people who cultivate gullibility on such a large scale. Demagogues.

Damn , I thought with all this messiah antichrist muslim terrorist rubbish the word for cultivating gullibility was republican .

[Devastatin Dave]

An excellent and relatively even-handed summation of the two candidates:

Obama is politically liberal and temperamentally conservative; McCain is temperamentally liberal and politically unpredictable. Obama is cerebral; McCain is emotional. Obama is reserved, sometimes aloof; McCain is a social gadfly and seemingly terrified of being left alone and silent. Obama wins press adoration but is not close to journalists; McCain is personal friends with hacks of all sorts. Obama makes plans and executes them with sometimes chilling discipline; McCain veers from one passion to another, winging it -- and somehow pulling it off.

Obama hates to lose but is happy to hang back in a fight, allowing his opponent to overreach himself; McCain is just as competitive, but if he has ever pulled a rhetorical or political punch, it’s news to me.

Obama is a master of the rhetorical set-piece; McCain is happiest yakking it up at informal town hall meetings, telling corny jokes. Obama has a traditional family life, a solid marriage, two seemingly poised young daughters and, until recently, regularly attended church (something that seems to elude Republican presidents, for all their public religiosity). McCain dumped his first wife after she was disfigured in a car accident and married a pretty heiress. He has children from both marriages and an adopted child from a Bangladeshi orphanage.

Yes, Obama dabbled in drugs as a young man; but McCain was marinated in booze. McCain, in other words, has a good deal of George W Bush’s adolescence in him, without the born-again experience. Obama, for all his affect of cool, is actually quite nerdy. It is possible, of course, to admire both men, to like them in their very different ways and yet remain torn about which one would be best to lead America, and the world, for the next four or eight years.

Even-handed?
They forgot, ""Obama is similar to Jesus and everything that is good and wonderful in the world while McCain is the possible anti-Christ and is on the same level as cow dung and genital warts.!!!"
Lemur, your so adorable when you try to play Mr Independent.

[Lemur]

Even-handed?

Darling, if you're not going to pick anything specific to object to, how can I respond? I'm sorry that describing Obama as "aloof," "nerdy" and "chilling" comes off as such fawning praise to you. I guess any editorial that doesn't describe him as a crypto-Muslim who rubs his naked body on the writings of Stalin isn't fair and balanced by your standards.

Why do I even bother to bring McCain up in this crowd?

[woad&fangs]

Sorry Lemur, but I'm with Dave on this one. It even looked like it was saying McCain having an adopted kid from Banladesh is somehow bad.

[Lemur]

Aren't we all, at the end of the day, "with" Dave? I mean this in a purely sensual way, mind you.

Look, if you all find the quote objectionable, fine. I don't see any reason to defend it to the death; it's just an op-ed piece.

It certainly mirrors the way I see the men. I don't think either candidate is perfect; neither do I think either man is a monster. As for the Bangladeshi adoption, I took that to mean that McCain's family structure is actually more unorthodox than Obama's, which is an entirely fair point when the Rovettes are trying their damnedest to paint Obama as an alien/celebrity/freak/un-American person. (And Fenrig thinks the Britney Spears/Paris Hilton ads were "spot on"? That's just weird, man.)

[Devastatin Dave]

Aren't we all, at the end of the day, "with" Dave?

Are you calling me the Backroom Bar Fly?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I certainly wouldn't describe McCain as "politically unpredictable".

[Kralizec]

(And Fenrig thinks the Britney Spears/Paris Hilton ads were "spot on"? That's just weird, man.)

It's a satirical ad, a caricature. The accusations of subliminal racism that followed cracked me up

EDIT: oh yeah, and this one

[CountArach]

I certainly wouldn't describe McCain as "politically unpredictable".

Yeah, that was the only thing I disagreed with in that. Perhaps the McCain of 2000, but not the McCain of 2008.

[Tribesman]

(And Fenrig thinks the Britney Spears/Paris Hilton ads were "spot on"? That's just weird, man.)

But they were spot on , Obama is one of them celebrity people , it is clearly shown by his doing "celebrity" things like adopting orphans from out foriegn .

[FactionHeir]

Some sound analysis from both sides of the spectrum on Biden.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/...l#cnnSTCOther1

I found the last analyst's comments particularly interesting.