Hard Drugs should be legal

[Strike For The South]

Damn straight. The government shouldn't be able to tell ME I can't drink and drive. I should be able to decide what I want to do while I'm drunk. *tears up ticket*

This isn't about drinking and driving its about the legalization of but not limited to Pot, Coke, Shrooms, Heroine, Meth, Speed, LSD, Ecstasy etc.

[FactionHeir]

This isn't about drinking and driving its about the legalization of but not limited to Pot, Coke, Shrooms, Heroine, Meth, Speed, LSD, Ecstasy etc.

Point is that if those drugs are made legal, they are also made more available meaning more people will use them.

As the government's job is to protect stupid people from themselves, banning hard drugs also reduces the number of people that drive or do other potentially dangerous activities while being under the influence of the drugs.

Its called harm prevention. Generally better for society than waiting for the harm to occur and then dealing with it (note: loss of life is difficult to compensate)

[Strike For The South]

Point is that if those drugs are made legal, they are also made more available meaning more people will use them.

As the government's job is to protect stupid people from themselves, banning hard drugs also reduces the number of people that drive or do other potentially dangerous activities while being under the influence of the drugs.

Its called harm prevention. Generally better for society than waiting for the harm to occur and then dealing with it (note: loss of life is difficult to compensate)

If someone wants to ruin their lives with drugs let them. The government should be involved as little as possible in our personal lives. The government is not your mother it should not hold your hand through your life. Not to mention if you're to dumb to understand the risks you might be better off six feet under. A little individual responsibility never hurt anyone

[Fragony]

Point is that if those drugs are made legal, they are also made more available meaning more people will use them.

As the government's job is to protect stupid people from themselves, banning hard drugs also reduces the number of people that drive or do other potentially dangerous activities while being under the influence of the drugs.

Its called harm prevention. Generally better for society than waiting for the harm to occur and then dealing with it (note: loss of life is difficult to compensate)

Despite our lax laws we have the lowest use of cannabis in europe save the Irish. Allowing is sometimes prevention.

[FactionHeir]

SFTS: I think you are missing my point. What I am saying is that while we might not care what people do to themselves, as soon as they do something which may affect others (i.e. driving a car), it affects everyone. If he runs over someone while under the influence of drugs, do you just say "tough luck"?

Fragony: But Texas is not the Netherlands

[Strike For The South]

SFTS: I think you are missing my point. What I am saying is that while we might not care what people do to themselves, as soon as they do something which may affect others (i.e. driving a car), it affects everyone. If he runs over someone while under the influence of drugs, do you just say "tough luck"?

I think the numbers of users who increase due to legalization will be statistically negligible. People aren't going to sit there and say " Herion is 4.99 well dadgum might as well try it". The legality of these drugs plays little role in the people who actually use them.

Fragony: But Texas is not the Netherlands

Bigot

[Kralizec]

Legalize them.

As the government's job is to protect stupid people from themselves, banning hard drugs also reduces the number of people that drive or do other potentially dangerous activities while being under the influence of the drugs.

I disagree. The government should protect people from the stupidity of others, and I don't disagree with food and safety standards and suchlike meant to protect consumers. Using drugs is different in that people make a conscious decision to accept a certain risk. Grown adults should be treated as such.

[FactionHeir]

I think the numbers of users who increase due to legalization will be statistically negligible. People aren't going to sit there and say " Herion is 4.99 well dadgum might as well try it". The legality of these drugs plays little role in the people who actually use them.

I disagree.
While they are illegal, their prices are significantly higher and they are available only on the black market via dealers. Once they become legalized, the prices drop and you can sell them openly on the street. I would imagine especially young people who can then afford it will give it a try and possibly end up seriously harmed or dead as a result, costing the taxpayers healthcare because in current society we care for the ill and don't just leave them to die as we used to.

Viking: Hard drugs have a lot more negative effects in comparison to alcohol. You'll end up with a lot more harmed newborns (who did not ask to be harmed while in the womb of an addict or someone who gave the drugs a try), kids who happen to see it on the kitchen counter and similarly, a larger number of addicts (hard drugs are more addictive than soft drugs like alcohol, hence the name) that go through the taxpaid health system.

[Strike For The South]

I disagree.
While they are illegal, their prices are significantly higher and they are available only on the black market via dealers. Once they become legalized, the prices drop and you can sell them openly on the street. I would imagine especially young people who can then afford it will give it a try and possibly end up seriously harmed or dead as a result, costing the taxpayers healthcare because in current society we care for the ill and don't just leave them to die as we used to.

Viking: Hard drugs have a lot more negative effects in comparison to alcohol. You'll end up with a lot more harmed newborns (who did not ask to be harmed while in the womb of an addict or someone who gave the drugs a try), kids who happen to see it on the kitchen counter and similarly, a larger number of addicts (hard drugs are more addictive than soft drugs like alcohol, hence the name) that go through the taxpaid health system.

Alcohol and tobacco kills more people than all other drugs combined. Alcohol is on the same level as coke. You just think its safer because the media tells you that. LOL alcohol causes just as many birth defects if not more than these hard drugs. I have been offered coke and ex before at parties and the like and their prices were very reasonable in fact I probably could've talked the guy down. Anyone who is been around the club scene knows the illegality of these drugs is a joke. Not to mention the money this would save the criminal justice system.

[Goofball]

I disagree.
While they are illegal, their prices are significantly higher and they are available only on the black market via dealers. Once they become legalized, the prices drop and you can sell them openly on the street. I would imagine especially young people who can then afford it will give it a try and possibly end up seriously harmed or dead as a result, costing the taxpayers healthcare because in current society we care for the ill and don't just leave them to die as we used to.

Viking: Hard drugs have a lot more negative effects in comparison to alcohol. You'll end up with a lot more harmed newborns (who did not ask to be harmed while in the womb of an addict or someone who gave the drugs a try), kids who happen to see it on the kitchen counter and similarly, a larger number of addicts (hard drugs are more addictive than soft drugs like alcohol, hence the name) that go through the taxpaid health system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_syndrome

Your argument holds no water (nor vodka for that matter).

Alcohol is a scourge on western society. It is just as bad (if not worse) that "hard" drugs. It certainly has more negative societal effects that marijuana.

[Viking]

SFTS: I think you are missing my point. What I am saying is that while we might not care what people do to themselves, as soon as they do something which may affect others (i.e. driving a car), it affects everyone. If he runs over someone while under the influence of drugs, do you just say "tough luck"?

Off to ban alcohol as well then. And driving without a purpose accepted by the constitution. Save them lives and let them be lived tight.

[Crazed Rabbit]

If he runs over someone while under the influence of drugs, do you just say "tough luck"?

I think he's been clear he doesn't support that being legal.

I want to say I agree with everything Strike's said in this thread.

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Point is that if those drugs are made legal, they are also made more available meaning more people will use them.

As the government's job is to protect stupid people from themselves, banning hard drugs also reduces the number of people that drive or do other potentially dangerous activities while being under the influence of the drugs.

Its called harm prevention. Generally better for society than waiting for the harm to occur and then dealing with it (note: loss of life is difficult to compensate)

"It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling
into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from
falling into error."

--US Supreme Court

[Divinus Arma]

This isn't about drinking and driving its about the legalization of but not limited to Pot, Coke, Shrooms, Heroine, Meth, Speed, LSD, Ecstasy etc.

Late addition to the convo here. But SFTS, you are going down a very dangerous path my young friend.

Can't join the Corps if you've done these drugs. I would be very careful about the decisions you make here. They have life-long implications, that you, as a young adult, have yet to grasp.

Anytime I hear this, I know it comes from someone who just doesn't know any better.

Unlike alcohol, which will merely make you sick or kill you of poisoning if you drink too much, these other drugs can offer a fate worse than death. If you overdo it on hallucinogens like LSD, mushrooms, or PCP, you can have a premanent alteration of your perspective making you unable to determine reality from your imagination. You will live in a nightmare of paranoia and fear. Heroine is instantly addictive. Your body chemistry adapts to require it like food or water. You will be unable to even think about anything else until you get your fix. As for meth: http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/DrugI...s/photo_3.html

Trust me on this. Drugs are bad, m'kay.

I won't argue with on the reefer. That should be legalized. For one reason alone: As young people, we are told that ALL DRUGS will kill you and are evil and yada yada. Kids try pot and realize the truth: it ain't that big of a deal. Then kids think that other drugs are the same, "If pot is safe, then other drugs must be okay too". They are not the same. The only reason that pot is a gateway drug is because the government has made it that way by exagerating and lieing to the public.

If you want to recreationally use, stick with alcohol, kava, and pot.

If you move on to hard drugs after you are properly informed, you deserve every bit of misery that awaits you.

Good luck with your choices on this. They will follow you for life.

[Strike For The South]

I don't personally do any of these drugs. I dont smoke (although I have before). I dont do these drugs because I want a degree from my uni and I want to continue to thrive in strength sports and training. The hardest thing I've ever tried is weed. I will never touch coke or meth or psychedelics but that is not the point. The point is the government has no right to micromanage its citizens lives.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Late addition to the convo here. But SFTS, you are going down a very dangerous path my young friend.

Can't join the Corps if you've done these drugs. I would be very careful about the decisions you make here. They have life-long implications, that you, as a young adult, have yet to grasp.

Anytime I hear this, I know it comes from someone who just doesn't know any better.

Unlike alcohol, which will merely make you sick or kill you of poisoning if you drink too much, these other drugs can offer a fate worse than death. If you overdo it on hallucinogens like LSD, mushrooms, or PCP, you can have a premanent alteration of your perspective making you unable to determine reality from your imagination. You will live in a nightmare of paranoia and fear. Heroine is instantly addictive. Your body chemistry adapts to require it like food or water. You will be unable to even think about anything else until you get your fix. As for meth: http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/DrugI...s/photo_3.html

Trust me on this. Drugs are bad, m'kay.

I won't argue with on the reefer. That should be legalized. For one reason alone: As young people, we are told that ALL DRUGS will kill you and are evil and yada yada. Kids try pot and realize the truth: it ain't that big of a deal. Then kids think that other drugs are the same, "If pot is safe, then other drugs must be okay too". They are not the same. The only reason that pot is a gateway drug is because the government has made it that way by exagerating and lieing to the public.

If you want to recreationally use, stick with alcohol, kava, and pot.

If you move on to hard drugs after you are properly informed, you deserve every bit of misery that awaits you.

Good luck with your choices on this. They will follow you for life.

Thanks Div. Trust Louis on this too: DON'T DO DRUGS.

Some get away with it, the lucky ones. Others do not. And there's no telling in advance.

You only need to see it once. One friend or relative. The mere sight of it is beyond what anybody should have to endure.
Never mind what it must be like for the afflicted themselves. It ruins good people. It submits them to a fate worse than death. Same goes for that even craftier killer: alcohol.

Don't do drugs, and be very, very careful about alcohol.

[Strike For The South]

My family has had problems with drugs and alcohol to but that doesn't give my government the right to say I cant do something. Ive been to cousins funerals and uncles rehabs and Im still not changing my mind.

[Louis VI the Fat]

My family has had problems with drugs and alcohol to but that doesn't give my government the right to say I cant do something. Ive been to cousins funerals and uncles rehabs and Im still not changing my mind.

The government couldn't protect you if it wanted to. You need to protect yourself.

For the record, I am all for full legalisation of all harddrugs. For practical purposes I am. Prohibition didn't work. The War on Drugs doesn't work. Criminalisation doesn't work. All it accomplishes is too enrich street scum, and to make fabulously wealthy organised scum, and to such an extent that it destabilises legal society.

Should the government have the right to interfere with what you put into your body? Yes. Not to chase after recreational use, but certainly for substance abuse. For the same reasons that the government has a 'right' to interfere when they see somebody drowning.

[Strike For The South]

The government couldn't protect you if it wanted to. You need to protect yourself.

For the record, I am all for full legalisation of all harddrugs. For practical purposes I am. Prohibition didn't work. The War on Drugs doesn't work. Criminalisation doesn't work. All it accomplishes is too enrich street scum, and to make fabulously wealthy organised scum, and to such an extent that it destabilises legal society.

Should the government have the right to interfere with what you put into your body? Yes. Not to chase after recreational use, but certainly for substance abuse. For the same reasons that the government has a 'right' to interfere when they see somebody drowning.

What if the one addicted is not harming anyone but themselves?

[Hosakawa Tito]

But if we make them legal you teenage rebels will be without a cause...Strike may be onto something here.

[Husar]

What if the one addicted is not harming anyone but themselves?

Just like the drowning guy, eh?

[Rhyfelwyr]

If the majority of people in a country don't want to put up with idiots that want to fill themselves with hard drugs, then I think that's fair enough. Since when did the freedom to take heroin become a basic human right? Human rights are made up remember, they are not some set infallable law. If the majority of people in a society want to do something, I say go with it. If the rest of the world sees this as something horrific, then they can try to stop them. But for issues like hard drugs, they are banned because people want them to be banned, and its not an unreasonable demand.

[Lemur]

Unlike alcohol, which will merely make you sick or kill you of poisoning if you drink too much, these other drugs can offer a fate worse than death. If you overdo it on hallucinogens like LSD, mushrooms, or PCP, you can have a premanent alteration of your perspective making you unable to determine reality from your imagination.

I missed this earlier. Div, you're right that overuse of LSD can result in permanent psychosis, but you undercut your own argument by lumping mushrooms in there. Show me a respectable medical study that shows harmful long-term side-effects from mushrooms. Go ahead, look for one. 'Cause there ain't one.

Mushrooms are less addictive than ciggies, less physically harmful than alcohol, and don't do lung damage like pot. They're maybe the safest drug out there, right next to caffeine. They're a baby aspirin drug.

Don't confuse the quality of the high with the toxicity of the substance.

[Fragony]

Mushrooms are also legal here, sometimes a tourist believes he can fly but apart from that little problems, but I do hear story's of people getting pretty messed up in the head pretty bad, but I know of no study of it's effects.

[rory_20_uk]

If you take a load of LSD you'll go absolutely crazy. If you take a load of paracetamol you will be dead in roughly 4 days. If you drink too much water you'll die...

Smuggling cigarettes is profitable. They might have what? 10% of the market! Currently criminals have 100% of the market, and they set the price. Knock off cigarettes are cheaper than those on the shelves.

The Triads started out in Hong Kong. They smuggled opiates to the island, both high class stuff and low cost, raw opium. The British gave them the biggest boost and criinal gang has ever gotten: they banned the substance. Suddenly the margins shot through the roof. Now as we may all know the Triads are a massive multinational organisation with their tendrils all over the world.

[Tribesman]

The Triads started out in Hong Kong. They smuggled opiates to the island, both high class stuff and low cost, raw opium. The British gave them the biggest boost and criinal gang has ever gotten: they banned the substance. Suddenly the margins shot through the roof. Now as we may all know the Triads are a massive multinational organisation with their tendrils all over the world.

Well at least your last line is OK , it is true that the groups known as triads have legal and illegal business interests anywhere in the world where there is a chance for them to make some cash...but the rest of your post

[rory_20_uk]

What part are you deriding? Their existence, or that the UK banned the drugs? I'm at work. I'll get some references from home.