Hard Drugs should be legal

[Husar]

But if they are prescribed the government-doctor conspiracy is still telling you when and how many of them you can put in your mouth. There is no such law for LEGO blocks, I can put as many of them into my mouth as I want and it is not illegal, I want the same to apply to heroin as well and I want my kids to enjoy the freedom to buy heroin for themselves whenever they damn well want to.

[rory_20_uk]

Most of the "illegal" drugs have a very long and ongoing use in medicine for their beneficial properties and can be prescribed.

I'd go further. The long term acute effects are often less toxic than legal drugs.

But if they are prescribed the government-doctor conspiracy is still telling you when and how many of them you can put in your mouth. There is no such law for LEGO blocks, I can put as many of them into my mouth as I want and it is not illegal, I want the same to apply to heroin as well and I want my kids to enjoy the freedom to buy heroin for themselves whenever they damn well want to.

I'd personally stick to over 18 only. But with that attitude I don't imagine your kids will make it to adulthood in any case...

[Reverend Joe]

We've talked about this many times before.

Where do you sell drugs? Next to beer?

You want heroin and crack on a shelf next to tylenol? OR would you need a prescription; but who would write one?

The reality is, if you can buy meth without a prescription (because nobody would write one) why couldn't you buy effexor or viagra without a prescription? Pharmaceutical companies can't wait for more ham fisted talk about legalization - it will help ruin any regulations on pharmaceuticals.

"Drugs" are drugs because they provide no tangible benefit - so they can't be prescribed, and while they provide no medical benefit, they can't be put in a general store because that would be unconscionable.

Tuff, this doesn't make sense.

Viagra et al are intended to be used only for medical purposes (and for the record, there IS a black market for viagra... but that's a whole 'nother story.)

Alcohol, on the other hand, isn't intended for medical use, so it isn't sold next to tylenol, of course. But as to where other drugs should be sold -- haven't you ever heard of an ABC (that's Alcoholic Beverage Control) store? In my home state, and other states, hard liquor can only be sold in such a store, not in grocery stores or anywhere else. So, what's wrong with restricting the sale of illegal drugs to government-owned stores? Say, a Cannabist shop for the standard "light" drugs (probably just cannabis and its derivitaves) and a "Narcotics Control" store for the harder stuff.

And for that matter, restrict the production and distribution of said narcotics to the Government -- NOT pharmaceutical corporations, NOT Government-funded organizations (god knows, nobody wants a Fannie Meth... ) just the good ol' Uncle Sam Drug Brewery.

And if people want to burn their brains out on meth and crack, then they can pay back society via the government-owned stores while they're doing it. And if they harm others, well, that's another issue entirely. Hell, idiot drivers hit people all the time, and people who don't do anything worse than cigarettes and beer rob people all the time. That's why there are already laws against such activities. Harming a society is a problem that is restricted to the people who do it, even if other people are harmed, because it was the choice of the person harming society to begin with. And don't give me the out-of-control crap. Drug users are generally far more in control than you might like to think; and if they aren't, then it was their own choices that removed that self control, and people who would never otherwise be affected by them should not have to suffer the consequences of trying to save a few stupid people who would, in all likelihood have found a way to get hooked anyway, because if there are no Narcotics Control stores, there's always Tyrone/Miguel/Billy Bob on the corner.

Jumping off a cliff into sharp rocks isnt scary. Would you do it?

There's a big difference between leaping off a cliff and smoking pot... namely, the difference between being impaled on sharp rocks and sitting at home, eating a cheeseburger and watching W. C. Fields movies. OOOOOH, scary!

Edit: @Rory, I actually think all those drugs should be 21+, unless the legal age for alcohol is lowered. Even if many of these drugs are less hamful, they're still fairly intoxicating in many cases.

[ICantSpellDawg]

So my post doesn't make sense but your government owned store and drug production facility makes sense. Our tax dollars shouldn't go toward the war against drugs - rather we should use those dollars to produce and distribute drugs...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So my post doesn't make sense but your government owned store and drug production facility makes sense. Our tax dollars shouldn't go toward the war against drugs - rather we should use those dollars to produce and distribute drugs...

Umm, I think when you sell things at a store you get something called revenue?

[Husar]

I'd personally stick to over 18 only. But with that attitude I don't imagine your kids will make it to adulthood in any case...

Come on, everybody knows that your kids end up taking every forbidden substance in huge masses anyway just because it is forbidden.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

I find it rather amusing that some of the logic of the pro-drugs group is that "we have two harmful substances which are legal and causing problems in society, so let's add some more!"

[ICantSpellDawg]

Umm, I think when you sell things at a store you get something called revenue?

So the government that we all trust and love should gain revenue through the sale of drugs? Just become nicer drug dealers? We could then use that revenue to deal with drug related crime and health issues. Win win for everybody.

State owned meth labs. Cool - lets try it.

[rory_20_uk]

Re: my choice of 18 years for drugs. That's the age for alcohol in the UK.

The argument against drugs appears to be:

They're bad: the class of drugs has no relation to this; the toxicity of the drugs has far more to do with the additives and the unknown bulkers. Compare the toxicity of whisky to that from an unknown still.

If it's illegal we can stop people getting it: utter tripe. I'm probably about as far away from street smart as you can easily get, and I imagine it'd take me a few hours to get into contact with a person I trust to get me some. For harder drugs longer, but again I am confident that one or two of my friends can get it.

If it's illegal, people won't use it: more like if the government states that looking at it kills and you know hundreds who enjoy it you'd wonder what the government is on.

For many drugs I personally would never use. I find that the long term toxicity for many is too high, and I'm not keen on IV drugs. If there was a wand I could use to get rid of them from the planet I'd use it. But they're here, they're addictive and loads of people like them.To me, persons who'd keep them illegal are as useful as King Canute's supporters.

[Reverend Joe]

So the government that we all trust and love should gain revenue through the sale of drugs? Just become nicer drug dealers? We could then use that revenue to deal with drug related crime and health issues. Win win for everybody.

State owned meth labs. Cool - lets try it.

Actually, yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Regulated, clean drugs that will pay for themselves. As for the crime and health issues, I guarantee you that would not be a problem. Pretty much everyone who is willing to use the stuff is already.

Edit: I sometimes wonder why I even bother arguing with a guy who named himself after an anti-drug mascot.

[Jolt]

You know what the definition of insane is, right? Trying the same thing and expecting different results.

What does that setence relate to?

So when do you want your personal government agent to come by and make sure you're getting enough exercise?

The drug war has been a monumental failure. Drugs are not harder to get. Innocent people are dead or robbed by the government. How can it truly be justified that we continue it?

CR

Fortunatly, doing exercise isn't addictive, nor does it cost money. Drugs eventually leads you to stealing (Or doing some other crazy scheme to drain money out something/someone) once you're out of money, because of it's addictedness and cost. Drugs are so, and in such a way this comparison makes little sense.
And how can one say it isn't harder to get? If it was legalized, it would be sold in every major city by shops. With it banned, the only places selling them is only in shifty alleys and in marginalized neighbourhoods.

[Strike For The South]

I find it rather amusing that some of the logic of the pro-drugs group is that "we have two harmful substances which are legal and causing problems in society, so let's add some more!"

The government has no right to tell me what I can and can not put into my body. They only have a right to reprimand me if I begin to harm others or property. Tuff this isn't about slavery or the defense department. It is about the legalization of drugs. The government has no right to micromanage me.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I find it rather amusing that some of the logic of the pro-drugs group is that "we have two harmful substances which are legal and causing problems in society, so let's add some more!"

Smokers harm only themselves (and barely that if they quit soon enough) and alcohol is the foundation of our society

[Jolt]

Smokers harm only themselves (and barely that if they quit soon enough)

See, the problem is that they don't just harm themselves. They harm everyone around them even more since the people around him are actually inhaling smoke without filters. That is the reasoning behind the banning of smoking in all small closed comercial surfaces in most of Western Europe.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

See, the problem is that they don't just harm themselves. They harm everyone around them even more since the people around him are actually inhaling smoke without filters. That is the reasoning behind the banning of smoking in all small closed comercial surfaces in most of Western Europe.

The only people significantly harmed would be the people working at the bar or restaurant, not the customers.

[Strike For The South]

The only people significantly harmed would be the people working at the bar or restaurant, not the customers.

and even then the effect is minimal.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

The government has no right to tell me what I can and can not put into my body. They only have a right to reprimand me if I begin to harm others or property. Tuff this isn't about slavery or the defense department. It is about the legalization of drugs. The government has no right to micromanage me.

They have the right to do whatever the American populace as a whole tells them to do. The beauty of democracy is that if you want drugs legalized, you can make a political party that will legalize them.

[Strike For The South]

They have the right to do whatever the American populace as a whole tells them to do. The beauty of democracy is that if you want drugs legalized, you can make a political party that will legalize them.

Well I'm trying to get enough people here to see things my way so I can get this enacted and the base of my argument is my statement in the first post. SFTS in 2026!!!!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

They have the right to do whatever the American populace as a whole tells them to do.

No they don't, reread the declaration of independence.

[Divinus Arma]

This isn't about drinking and driving its about the legalization of but not limited to Pot, Coke, Shrooms, Heroine, Meth, Speed, LSD, Ecstasy etc.

Late addition to the convo here. But SFTS, you are going down a very dangerous path my young friend.

Can't join the Corps if you've done these drugs. I would be very careful about the decisions you make here. They have life-long implications, that you, as a young adult, have yet to grasp.

Anytime I hear this, I know it comes from someone who just doesn't know any better.

Unlike alcohol, which will merely make you sick or kill you of poisoning if you drink too much, these other drugs can offer a fate worse than death. If you overdo it on hallucinogens like LSD, mushrooms, or PCP, you can have a premanent alteration of your perspective making you unable to determine reality from your imagination. You will live in a nightmare of paranoia and fear. Heroine is instantly addictive. Your body chemistry adapts to require it like food or water. You will be unable to even think about anything else until you get your fix. As for meth: http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/DrugI...s/photo_3.html

Trust me on this. Drugs are bad, m'kay.

I won't argue with on the reefer. That should be legalized. For one reason alone: As young people, we are told that ALL DRUGS will kill you and are evil and yada yada. Kids try pot and realize the truth: it ain't that big of a deal. Then kids think that other drugs are the same, "If pot is safe, then other drugs must be okay too". They are not the same. The only reason that pot is a gateway drug is because the government has made it that way by exagerating and lieing to the public.

If you want to recreationally use, stick with alcohol, kava, and pot.

If you move on to hard drugs after you are properly informed, you deserve every bit of misery that awaits you.

Good luck with your choices on this. They will follow you for life.

[Strike For The South]

I don't personally do any of these drugs. I dont smoke (although I have before). I dont do these drugs because I want a degree from my uni and I want to continue to thrive in strength sports and training. The hardest thing I've ever tried is weed. I will never touch coke or meth or psychedelics but that is not the point. The point is the government has no right to micromanage its citizens lives.

[rory_20_uk]

Drugs eventually leads you to stealing (Or doing some other crazy scheme to drain money out something/someone) once you're out of money, because of it's addictedness and cost. Drugs are so, and in such a way this comparison makes little sense.
And how can one say it isn't harder to get? If it was legalized, it would be sold in every major city by shops. With it banned, the only places selling them is only in shifty alleys and in marginalized neighbourhoods.

The usual oft used drivel.

Illegal drugs are more expensive, as you're paying for the fact that getting into the country is complicated. Legal ones would be far less expensive - less crime!

It's already dead easy to get! And it is not from marginalised estates. Cocaine is used by many middle / upper class people. They are not going down darkened alleys. True, some do - perhaps it would be safer for all to g to a shop?

Addictive... ever seen people give up cigarettes or alcohol? And how much do they cost? Tens if not more per day.

[Big_John]

With it banned, the only places selling them is only in shifty alleys and in marginalized neighbourhoods.

surely, you jest.

[KukriKhan]

Well I'm trying to get enough people here to see things my way so I can get this enacted and the base of my argument is my statement in the first post. SFTS in 2026!!!!

Assuming we keep 4-year POTUS election cycles, you'll have to wait 'til 2028, Candidate Strike. That'll make you an old man of what, 37?

Unless you meant 2026 for Texas Guv, first.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Late addition to the convo here. But SFTS, you are going down a very dangerous path my young friend.

Can't join the Corps if you've done these drugs. I would be very careful about the decisions you make here. They have life-long implications, that you, as a young adult, have yet to grasp.

Anytime I hear this, I know it comes from someone who just doesn't know any better.

Unlike alcohol, which will merely make you sick or kill you of poisoning if you drink too much, these other drugs can offer a fate worse than death. If you overdo it on hallucinogens like LSD, mushrooms, or PCP, you can have a premanent alteration of your perspective making you unable to determine reality from your imagination. You will live in a nightmare of paranoia and fear. Heroine is instantly addictive. Your body chemistry adapts to require it like food or water. You will be unable to even think about anything else until you get your fix. As for meth: http://www.drugfree.org/Portal/DrugI...s/photo_3.html

Trust me on this. Drugs are bad, m'kay.

I won't argue with on the reefer. That should be legalized. For one reason alone: As young people, we are told that ALL DRUGS will kill you and are evil and yada yada. Kids try pot and realize the truth: it ain't that big of a deal. Then kids think that other drugs are the same, "If pot is safe, then other drugs must be okay too". They are not the same. The only reason that pot is a gateway drug is because the government has made it that way by exagerating and lieing to the public.

If you want to recreationally use, stick with alcohol, kava, and pot.

If you move on to hard drugs after you are properly informed, you deserve every bit of misery that awaits you.

Good luck with your choices on this. They will follow you for life.

Thanks Div. Trust Louis on this too: DON'T DO DRUGS.

Some get away with it, the lucky ones. Others do not. And there's no telling in advance.

You only need to see it once. One friend or relative. The mere sight of it is beyond what anybody should have to endure.
Never mind what it must be like for the afflicted themselves. It ruins good people. It submits them to a fate worse than death. Same goes for that even craftier killer: alcohol.

Don't do drugs, and be very, very careful about alcohol.

[Strike For The South]

My family has had problems with drugs and alcohol to but that doesn't give my government the right to say I cant do something. Ive been to cousins funerals and uncles rehabs and Im still not changing my mind.

[Rhyfelwyr]

If the majority of people in a country don't want to put up with idiots that want to fill themselves with hard drugs, then I think that's fair enough. Since when did the freedom to take heroin become a basic human right? Human rights are made up remember, they are not some set infallable law. If the majority of people in a society want to do something, I say go with it. If the rest of the world sees this as something horrific, then they can try to stop them. But for issues like hard drugs, they are banned because people want them to be banned, and its not an unreasonable demand.

[Louis VI the Fat]

My family has had problems with drugs and alcohol to but that doesn't give my government the right to say I cant do something. Ive been to cousins funerals and uncles rehabs and Im still not changing my mind.

The government couldn't protect you if it wanted to. You need to protect yourself.

For the record, I am all for full legalisation of all harddrugs. For practical purposes I am. Prohibition didn't work. The War on Drugs doesn't work. Criminalisation doesn't work. All it accomplishes is too enrich street scum, and to make fabulously wealthy organised scum, and to such an extent that it destabilises legal society.

Should the government have the right to interfere with what you put into your body? Yes. Not to chase after recreational use, but certainly for substance abuse. For the same reasons that the government has a 'right' to interfere when they see somebody drowning.

[Strike For The South]

The government couldn't protect you if it wanted to. You need to protect yourself.

For the record, I am all for full legalisation of all harddrugs. For practical purposes I am. Prohibition didn't work. The War on Drugs doesn't work. Criminalisation doesn't work. All it accomplishes is too enrich street scum, and to make fabulously wealthy organised scum, and to such an extent that it destabilises legal society.

Should the government have the right to interfere with what you put into your body? Yes. Not to chase after recreational use, but certainly for substance abuse. For the same reasons that the government has a 'right' to interfere when they see somebody drowning.

What if the one addicted is not harming anyone but themselves?

[Hosakawa Tito]

But if we make them legal you teenage rebels will be without a cause...Strike may be onto something here.