Battle balance

**Lucio Domicio Aureliano** · 09-04-2008, 23:53

Hail

I have i question for the greatest moders of all time. Will the battle balance change a little? Cause, i think it´s really weird that a phalanx unit, even when charged in the flank or rear, can still turn away and wrack you down. So, could, please, someone tell me if there´re going to be changes in the battles. You guys must know that never a total war game will be as good and historical accurate

as Europa Barbarorum.

**Foot** · 09-05-2008, 00:07

We will completely have to revisit the stats. As far as phalanxes turning around that isn't something we can change, as it is hardcoded into their behaviour to face the unit with the highest danger rating.

Foot

**russia almighty** · 09-05-2008, 04:39

One thing I've seen with The Broken Crescent, the like 2 units that use spear wall all hold their formation pretty good.

Though, due to the lack of lethality, they have 1 attack.

**Aemilius Paulus** · 09-07-2008, 20:47

Originally Posted by Lucio Domicio Aureliano

Hail

I have i question for the greatest moders of all time. Will the battle balance change a little? Cause, i think it´s really weird that a phalanx unit, even when charged in the flank or rear, can still turn away and wrack you down. So, could, please, someone tell me if there´re going to be changes in the battles. You guys must know that never a total war game will be as good and historical accurate

as Europa Barbarorum.

Yeah, those phalanxes are real killers. The EB phalangites are much more powerful than the RTW ones. It is practically impossible to beat a phalanx in an even all-infantry battle. Even if you had, say 5 elite infantry units and the enemy had 5 regular phalanx units, the phalanxes would almost always win.The only time I have beaten phalanxes in an uneven battle were the times when I used all-cavalry armies, which isn't exactly my style. I do have to say that it is pretty easy to win even the uneven battles with phalangites when you're playing as some all-cavalry nomadic factions, such as Pahlava, Sauromatae or Saka Rauka.

In RTW, I remember, a Roman legionary could easily get through the wall of pikes that a phalanx creates, but in EB, units never seem to get behind even the first line of spears.

**General Appo** · 09-07-2008, 21:59

Excuse me? Are you kidding? Have you even played RTW? In RTW Vanilla even touching the pikes of a phalanx spelled instant doom for anyone except überelite units.

**Aemilius Paulus** · 09-07-2008, 22:11

Originally Posted by General Appo

Excuse me? Are you kidding? Have you even played RTW? In RTW Vanilla even touching the pikes of a phalanx spelled instant doom for anyone except überelite units.

Maybe, but you'll have to agree that phalanxes are even tougher in EB.

This is one of my previous posts:
"I was playing as the Romani once and I was in a battle against Seleukids. They had 4 Pantodapoi Phalangitai (Hellenic Native Phalanx) with zero exp./weap./armour, which are pretty much equivalent to Machimoi phalanx, among other units. Eventually I routed and destroyed most (except their cavalry) of the other units and was left with the four phalanxes. I sent four units of 2 exp/1 weapons&armour Principes to charge the front of each phalanx as well as 2 Greek Classical Hoplites and 3 Triarii with same weapons/exp/armour to fully envelop the phalanxes. The result was shocking. Those lousy Pantodapoi left each unit of Principes with only about 25 men each (from starting 82 men - large unit scale). After that battle I usually whittled down the Seleukid phalanxes with slingers or cavalry (charging in their backs)."

**Lucio Domicio Aureliano** · 09-07-2008, 23:38

I believe the phalanks in EB are a little bit stronger than they should be, if you go against some elite phalanks it´s almost certain that you´re going to lose even if you charge than in the flank or rear. I´m not saying this´s wrong but i think they should be a little weaker and suffer from a flank or rear attack heavily.

**Foot** · 09-07-2008, 23:49

I know, thats what I understood from your first post. Obviously things will change in EBII (they'll have to because lethality don't exist no more), but I disagree with your assessment on strength. We do the best we can given the limitations in the stat code. Phalanxes may be a little too stronger than we might like on the flank and rear, but it is consequence of certain other stats that are essential, not a decision we made but one made for us.

Foot

**satalexton** · 09-07-2008, 23:57

i never had problem with phalanx troops, there's nothing a well timed hetairoi charge (or 2 at most) cannot rout =D

**General Appo** · 09-08-2008, 16:23

Originally Posted by Aemilius Paulus

Maybe, but you'll have to agree that phalanxes are even tougher in EB.

This is one of my previous posts:
"I was playing as the Romani once and I was in a battle against Seleukids. They had 4 Pantodapoi Phalangitai (Hellenic Native Phalanx) with zero exp./weap./armour, which are pretty much equivalent to Machimoi phalanx, among other units. Eventually I routed and destroyed most (except their cavalry) of the other units and was left with the four phalanxes. I sent four units of 2 exp/1 weapons&armour Principes to charge the front of each phalanx as well as 2 Greek Classical Hoplites and 3 Triarii with same weapons/exp/armour to fully envelop the phalanxes. The result was shocking. Those lousy Pantodapoi left each unit of Principes with only about 25 men each (from starting 82 men - large unit scale). After that battle I usually whittled down the Seleukid phalanxes with slingers or cavalry (charging in their backs)."

Sounds like maybe this guy wasn´t playing on Medium.

**Mithridates VI Eupator** · 09-09-2008, 08:58

I've never had any problem with the phalanxes. Sure, they pack quite a punch, but then again, they're supposed to. If you manage to surround them, that ususally does tyhe trick.

**Foot** · 09-07-2008, 22:03

Of course the phalanx is going to win. They've got the enemy about 12ft from them, its a no win contest from the front. But you get them in uneven territory (trees for favourite) and you pin down their slow moving phalanx, then you've got some winning material. I've played EBI (wow! really!) and I don't buy this "phalanx are really tough even from the flank and back". Firstly never attack their shield-flank side if you are to attack a flank (so their left and your right) because they get the shield bonus to their defense. Pin them down with a powerful unit and use a less powerful unit to flank (this stops the phalanx from just changing direction unrealistically).

In RTW you could also stick a group of roman ninjas in short grass and then watch as the enemy pass. RTW is not a good base on which to judge things. Really.

Foot