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You can't count the Italians as part of the war effort... maybe economically, and providing a buffer so the allies would take more time to close in on germany... but their performance on the battlefield is one to forget.
here's an account I read from a history book when i was a wee lad- ill paraphrase it since its a large paragraph. - When the Allied armies landed in Sicily (10 July 1943) an American dog named Chips was moving up with his company, attacked a concrete machinegun nest, got wounded, and dragged an italian out screaming, the three others surrendered, he also rounded up another 10 of them later in the day. he got a DSC a silver star and a purple heart, but a commander argued "brave men shouldnt have to share their medals with a dog" and he lots his medals.(this is from a kids history book- Horrible Histories, by Terry Deary but its still true.)
as the saying goes, Italian tanks have 16 gears, 15 in reverse, and one really fast one that goes forwards incase of an attack from the rear. (infact the fastest tank in the WW2 part of the Bovington tank museum in Britain is an Italian)
Germany's mistake in all this was trusting Italy to the Italians.
i say this all in jest![]()
Last edited by Celtic_Punk; 09-11-2008 at 12:14.
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"The republic stands for truth and honour. For all that is noblest in our race. By truth and honour, principle and sacrifice alone will Ireland be free."-Liam Mellows
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Italy had exactly the same problem as France.
While having a semi-decent industry they lacked in natural resources and tactical coordination between army, navy and air force. All in all, Italy would have been much more effective entering war in 1942-43.
Had it been properly supported by the air force the italian navy would have been capable of effectively counter the royal navy in the mediterranean, cutting off british supply lines in Africa. That would have changed the outcome of quite a few things in the war, while starting later would have helped to not send a WWI army into WWII.
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Not turning over the Shah to a vengeful people.
Several effects, the disastrous rescue attempt, and the Iran Iraq War that saved many Shah Pilots from execution and enabled the development of the Iranian Defense Agency.
Now Iran is beholden to no one, makes its own weapons and has been reverse engineering and expanding on the F-14 which the Russians still have yet to match, which is why the Russians have been unable to sell much in the way of planes to the Iranians. Outside of ACIG, Speartip, and F-14 Sunset, few people realize that Iran's 50 F-14s and AIM-54s are fully operational and will soon be joined by a Super Tomcat known as FB-44 Iranian Lion.
Meanwhile due to McNamara and Rumsfeld's stupid policy decisions, the U.S. Military is just falling apart. Fewer and fewer aircraft are flight worthy, fewer vehicles are able to run, and fewer soldiers are enlisting.
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umm well the big mistake adolf did was starting a war with russia ...wasn't ready for a 3 frontal war should have killed the other ones firstly![]()
Pin you must also take into account hitler desperately needed fuel. russia was the best choice hitler could think of... i personally think he could have just gotten it diplomatically. sure he hated commies(if WWII never happend i bet the americans and him woulda been best buds during the cold war lol) but keep your friends close, and your enemies even closer, as the saying goes.
Last edited by Celtic_Punk; 09-12-2008 at 13:02.
'Who Dares WINS!' - SAS
"The republic stands for truth and honour. For all that is noblest in our race. By truth and honour, principle and sacrifice alone will Ireland be free."-Liam Mellows
Who knows? If it's a enough day we may all end up Generals!"
If oil was the problem, Hitler should have concentrated on North Africa and drive on through the Middle East. However, he didn't trust Stalin, and he had reason. The Soviets had already occupied several border areas that they had agreed were German. Also, the Red army was massing on the German border. It's speculated they were positioned there for an attack that would take place a year or so down the line, but it's still was very provocative. Fortunately for the Germans, the Reds were in attack columns that had been placed way to close together, effectively paralysing them during the first days of operation Barbarossa. The fact that they were commanded by incompetent lackeys didn't make things better either.
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Actually his fatal mistake was declaring war on the U.S. in hopes Japan would strike the USSR from behind.
Once Hitler did that, Germany was doomed.
Otherwise Hitler would have won. Remember, Germany took on far more foes in WW1 and nearly won till American Forces arrived and turn the tide.
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The United States was very much a participant even before that, aiding both Britain and the USSR.
I'd dispute that, WW1 was pretty much over by the time US troops arrived, their presence hastened the end of the war but the writing was already on the wall for the Germans.
In WW2 the Germans over the long haul are still going to lose even sans US involvement as a belligerent, with a long, long bloody struggle on the Eastern front and Germany unable to invade the UK in the West. It'd probably end in mushroom clouds over Germany somewhere down the line.
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