The Eugenic Annihilation of Children with Down's Syndrome

**rvg** · 09-12-2008, 21:35

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Bollox
The detection and diagnosis is not absolute .

However since Lars is unable (or unwilling) to answer the question I put I may has well say that the level to which the presense of the disorder will affect the individual is not determinable until after the birth , often several years afer the birth .

Bull. The condition is known right around 5th month of pregnancy. The diagnosis is absolute, and there are no degrees of down's syndrome. You either have it, or you don't.

**Big_John** · 09-13-2008, 00:03

Originally Posted by rvg

there are no degrees of down's syndrome. You either have it, or you don't.

i believe his point is that the level of function of people with down syndrome is highly variable.

**Tribesman** · 09-13-2008, 02:31

Bull. The condition is known right around 5th month of pregnancy. The diagnosis is absolute, and there are no degrees of down's syndrome. You either have it, or you don't.

Really , then you won't mind naming the pre-natal process that gives your imaginary 100% accurate diagnosis then will you

As for the second part of that post John said enough already , and what was written was perfectly clear

**rvg** · 09-13-2008, 04:02

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Really , then you won't mind naming the pre-natal process that gives your imaginary 100% accurate diagnosis then will you

As for the second part of that post John said enough already , and what was written was perfectly clear

Much to learn you still have, padawan... get a clue you must.

"Amniocentesis
This procedure is used to collect amniotic fluid, the liquid that is in the womb. It's performed in the doctor's office or in the hospital on an "out-patient" basis. A needle is inserted through the mother's abdominal wall into the uterus, using ultrasound to guide the needle. Approximately one ounce of fluid is taken for testing. This fluid contains fetal cells that can be examined for chromosome tests. It takes about 2 weeks to determine if the fetus has Down syndrome or not.

Amniocentesis is usually carried out between the 14th and 18th week of pregnancy; some doctors may do them as early as the 13th week. Side effects to the mother include cramping, bleeding, infection and leaking of amniotic fluid afterwards. There is a slight increase in the risk of miscarriage: the normal rate of miscarriage at this time of pregnancy is 2 to 3%, and amniocentesis increases that risk by an additional 1/2 to 1%. Amniocentesis is not recommended before the 14th week of pregnancy due to a higher risk of complications and loss of pregnancy.

Which mothers should have an amniocentesis? The current recommendations by professional obstetric groups is that women with a risk of having a child with Down syndrome of 1 in 250 or greater should be offered amniocentesis. There is controversy over whether to use the risk at the time of screening or the predicted risk at the time of birth. (The risk at the time of screening is higher since many fetuses with Down syndrome abort spontaneously around the time of screening or afterwards."

**rory_20_uk** · 09-13-2008, 10:34

"Slight increase in risk of miscarriage"

Hardly something for all is it?

A risk of 1 in 500 would be considered minor, but if the odds of having the down's in the first place is only 1:250 it's not that different.

Going the other way and testing all, you'll cause thousands of miscarriages a year to ensure that there are no down's babies.

So, first off you're saying it's absolutely known, then if the odds ratio are worse than 1:250 they test you?

**AlexanderSextus** · 09-13-2008, 10:44

I dont know if this was posted before in this thread, but how is abortion bad if the foetus is aborted before there is any actual brain activity in the foetus??? I.e. How can you kill something if it's not alive??? Simply put, the bible says Life begins at conception, scientists have already scanned a Foetus and figured out that the brain is not active, until a certain point in time, so ergo life DOES NOT begin at the moment of conception. The bible is wrong, (YEAH I SAID IT! WHAT!!!) and abortion is okay. If you abort a foetus that has brain activity, that is murder.

oh, and i dont agree with "eugenic abortion" I was born with Cerebral Palsy, myself. I have a cousin with Downs Syndrome. Hes pretty cool. He even has a SMOKIN girlfriend.

**woad&fangs** · 09-13-2008, 15:46

Originally Posted by AlexanderSextus

Simply put, the bible says Life begins at conception, scientists have already scanned a Foetus and figured out that the brain is not active, until a certain point in time, so ergo life DOES NOT begin at the moment of conception. The bible is wrong, (YEAH I SAID IT! WHAT!!!)

Actually, the bible never mentions abortion and too my knowledge it never states when "life" begins in the womb.

Also, I fully support abortion for any reason whatsoever up through the 11th week. By the 12th week of gestation measurable brain activity appears.

**Tribesman** · 09-13-2008, 11:01

Much to learn you still have, padawan... get a clue you must.

It is you who are without a clue as that process does not have a 100% detection rate .

**rvg** · 09-13-2008, 15:35

Originally Posted by Tribesman

It is you who are without a clue as that process does not have a 100% detection rate .

Get a clue you must...

"The syndrome is caused by the duplication of one member of chromosome pair 21, a condition called trisomy 21. It can be verified with 100% accuracy by two prenatal tests: chorionic villus sampling or amniocentesis. Both procedures require removing cells from the fetus for testing and entail a small risk of producing a spontaneous abortion. Screening tests are used to identify high-risk pregnancies, minimizing the number who undergo the more invasive tests."