Britain adopts Sharia law. Is this true?

[KarlXII]

This has nothing to do with Islam. I find it weird that a western nation is even allowing religious courts to make decisions on their soil. Any religion.

I wholeheartedly agree.

[Strike For The South]

I wholeheartedly agree.

Then why are you defending them?

[KarlXII]

Then why are you defending them?

When did I ever announce my support, or defend them?

If you mean the "SHARIA COURTS R BAD BECUZ A JUDGE RULED SEXIST", I'm simply pointing out this was an unfair ruling, yes, but to say every ruling a Sharia court will make will be this is like saying putting a black man on death row means every black man convicted is going to the chair.

[Strike For The South]

When did I ever announce my support, or defend them?

If you mean the "SHARIA COURTS R BAD BECUZ A JUDGE RULED SEXIST", I'm simply pointing out this was an unfair ruling, yes, but to say every ruling a Sharia court will make will be this is like saying putting a black man on death row means every black man convicted is going to the chair.

Sharia law is unfair, you know the rules in Saudi Arabia right?

[KarlXII]

Sharia law is unfair, you know the rules in Saudi Arabia right?

Yes I do.

I found something of interest. A Qadi, Sharia judge, cannot discriminate based off race, sex, religion, culture etc.

So this technically means the basis of the ruling of the inheritence was in violation of that. Interesting?

[Strike For The South]

Yes I do.

I found something of interest. A Qadi, Sharia judge, cannot discriminate based off race, sex, religion, culture etc.

So this technically means the basis of the ruling of the inheritence was in violation of that. Interesting?

....If you really think thats how these things work. Im no longer speaking to you

[KarlXII]

....If you really think thats how these things work. Im no longer speaking to you

I'm not saying that's how it works. I'm saying that's how it's supposed to work.

Argh!

My opinion: Abolish the courts, Islamic, Jewish, Hindu, it doesn't matter. Religious courts have no place in Western law.

[Goofball]

When did I ever announce my support, or defend them?

If you mean the "SHARIA COURTS R BAD BECUZ A JUDGE RULED SEXIST", I'm simply pointing out this was an unfair ruling, yes, but to say every ruling a Sharia court will make will be this is like saying putting a black man on death row means every black man convicted is going to the chair.

That is so absolutely full of crap. I said nothing even resembling "SHARIA COURTS R BAD BECUZ A JUDGE RULED SEXIST," that is just a less than clever strawman you are using because by willfully ignoring my real argument, you do not have to admit that your original, ill thought out position on this matter might in fact be incorrect. Absolutely childish.

My point has been that Sharia inherently and systemically favors men over women. It is not a matter of a single judge making a bad ruling, as you seem to believe. It is about a judge making a correct ruling according to Sharia, which is inherently unfair to women.

Check this out:

http://www.islam101.com/sociology/inheritance.htm

I'll highlight some bits for you:

As we shall see the Quran does not expressly state the share of the male agnate relatives as such, although it does enact that the share of the male is twice that of a female. The Sunni jurists take the view that the intention of the Quranic injunctions was not to completely replace the old customary agnatic system entirely but merely to modify it with the objective of improving the position of female relatives. The Sunni Islamic law of inheritance is therefore, an amalgamation of the Quranic law superimposed upon the old customary law to form a complete and cohesive system. The rights of the asaba were recognised by the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) himself. Abdullah ibn Abbas (RA) reported that the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) said, "Give the Faraid (the shares of the inheritance that are prescribed in the Quran) to those who are entitled to receive it. Then whatever remains, should be given to the closest male relative of the deceased." (Sahih al-Bukhari)
The Shia jurists on the contrary took the view that since the old agnatic customary system had not been endorsed by the Quran it must be rejected and completely replaced by the new Quranic law.
By specifying clear cut entitlement and specific shares of female relatives, Islam not only elevated the position of women but simultaneously safeguarded their social and economic interests as long ago as 1400 years. The Quran contains only three verses [4:11, 4:12 and 4:176] which give specific details of inheritance shares. Using the information in these verses together with the traditions of the Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) as well as methods of juristic reasoning, the Muslims jurists have expounded the laws of inheritance in such meticulous detail that large volumes of work have been written on this subject.
"Allah commands you regarding your children. For the male a share equivalent to that of two females. " [Quran 4:11]
This first principle which the Quran lays down refers to males and females of equal degree and class. This means that a son inherits a share equivalent to that of two daughters, a full (germane) brother inherits twice as much as a full sister, a son’s son inherits twice as much as a son’s daughter and so on. This principle is however, not universally applicable as we shall see later in verse 4:12, the descendants of the mother notably the uterine brother and uterine sister inherit equally as do their descendants.
"If (there are) women (daughters) more than two, then for them two thirds of the inheritance; and if there is only one then it is half." [Quran 4:11]
Women in this context refers to daughters. The Quran gives the daughter a specific share. In legal terminology the daughter is referred to as a Quranic heir or sharer (ashab al-faraid). The Quran mentions nine such obligatory sharers as we shall see later. Muslims jurists have added a further three by the juristic method of qiyas (analogy). So in Islamic jurisprudence there are a total of twelve relations who inherit as sharers.
If there are any sons the share of the daughter(s) is no longer fixed because the share of the daughter is determined by the principle that a son inherits twice as much as a daughter. In the absence of any daughters this rule is applicable to agnatic granddaughters (son's daughters). The agnatic granddaughter has been made a Quranic heir (sharer) by Muslim jurists by analogy.

But none of that probably matters because I finally figured out what I'm dealing with here. I'm ashamed that it took me so long, after having seen you dance from position to position I should have realized it long ago:

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/war...tfuldodger.htm

I'm done with you.

[KarlXII]

But none of that probably matters because I finally figured out what I'm dealing with here. I'm ashamed that it took me so long, after having seen you dance from position to position I should have realized it long ago

Do I need to call a whambulance?

[Rhyfelwyr]

That site Goofball linked do deserves a thread here. Which category would you put other Backroomers in?

[Big_John]

That site Goofball linked do deserves a thread here. Which category would you put other Backroomers in?

i'm pretty sure it's had one (at least). probably in the frontroom.

[Goofball]

Do I need to call a whambulance?

Typical of the quality of your contributions so far.

[KarlXII]

Typical of the quality of your contributions so far.

Oh please.

I honestly didn't know the Quran said, "Allah commands you regarding your children. For the male a share equivalent to that of two females. "

Thanks for acquiring that information for my knowledge. Happy now?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Strike - the lefties defend them because they're minorities.

Only a very few lefties will criticize minorities. They are by nature against the majority, and since that thought has formed in the west, it's always the white, Christian man who is wrong. Minorities are oppressed; they can't be wrong.

yeah, women are repressed in certain muslim households and whatnot. we know. i don't see how this arbitration act is really going to exacerbate that situation, though. the problem is the society, not this act, which will provide religious arbitration to muslims in a nation that already provides such to other religious groups. if you are going to do it, do it right.

This cements the results of that misogyny and oppression into law. The other religious courts (the Jewish ones) don't have this problem. If the hardliners forming vigilante groups in Jerusalem were around, it would be an issue, but they are not, so it isn't.

Secondly it seems a bit unfair that we for example allow jewish courts in the same manner so why not muslims ?

Just because there are other religious courts doesn't mean it should be okay for any religious courts to operate.

Why? Listen carefully, because this might be hard for some lefties:
Not all religions are equal. Some are morally worse than others. You cannot live forever in a wishy-washy world of moral relativism and treat unequals as though they are equal.

We are giving another tool to misogynistic oppressors to force their will on their victims. We are allowing their bigotry to take root in a greater area of society, and putting the weight of a western country's justice system behind it. How anyone can defend that is beyond me.

CR

[HoreTore]

Strike - the lefties defend them because they're minorities.

Only a very few lefties will criticize minorities. They are by nature against the majority, and since that thought has formed in the west, it's always the white, Christian man who is wrong. Minorities are oppressed; they can't be wrong.

Nonsense CR, chistians are a minority here, and I openly attack them almost whenever the opportunity presents itself!

[Crazed Rabbit]

Nonsense CR, chistians are a minority here, and I openly attack them almost whenever the opportunity presents itself!

They were the majority, which makes it okay. Do you do the same to any other religion?

CR

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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[Tribesman]

Nice highlight there Goof

The Sunni jurists take the view that the intention of the Quranic injunctions was not to completely replace the old customary agnatic system entirely but merely to modify it with the objective of improving the position of female relatives. The Sunni Islamic law of inheritance is therefore, an amalgamation of the Quranic law superimposed upon the old customary law to form a complete and cohesive system.

So the sharia law sorta replaced the law that said the uncles get first claim based on their age, then the sons based on their age , then any nephews and made it so that females get a shout at the money too .
Wow that was so far ahead of the civilised western laws wasn't it , laws that we had until recently (OK apart from the US as they never adopted that part of common law from Europe) So all we have to do is wait for them to have another enlightenment and leapfrog ahead of the west again .

[HoreTore]

They were the majority, which makes it okay. Do you do the same to any other religion?

Indeed I do. But not close to as much though, as I have a LOT more knowledge about christianity. Also, they're more annoying than other religions.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Indeed I do. But not close to as much though, as I have a LOT more knowledge about christianity. Also, they're more annoying than other religions.

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/war...tm/atheist.htm

[Husar]

Indeed I do. But not close to as much though, as I have a LOT more knowledge about christianity. Also, they're more annoying than other religions.

They're probably more annoying to you because so many live around you or would you be less annoyed living in Saudi Arabia?