Another School shooting in Finland

[Martok]

Yeah, I was shocked to read that in the news yesterday -- my condolences to the victims and their families. I always have a hard time picturing tragic events like that occurring in Scandinavia for some reason, even though I know it's not an isolated incident.

I think the problem is in our society.

I second Fragony's question: Why do you think that? There's always going to be disturbed individuals with violent intentions, no matter what you do.

[Innocentius]

I always have a hard time picturing tragic events like that occurring in Scandinavia for some reason, even though I know it's not an isolated incident.

Well, it didn't take place in Scandinavia...

I don't know what to feel about it. I've grown apathetic to this kind of news and I was neither surprised nor shocked when I read the headlines. I have no relatives in that part of Finland from what I know, so...

[Louis VI the Fat]

I un-second Fragony's question!

Social choices of every society go a long way to explaining why tragedies like this happen. Not guns or an abundance of disturbed individuals are the reason for the difference in levels of violence between South Africa and Iceland, but society at large. Compare, for example, a good road network. A few tragic random occurences, or individual maniacs, are always the direct cause for car accidents. But a good road network, build for safety, goes a long way to preventing car accidents. Better roads mean less accidents. More and better law enforement mean more law-abiding drivers. This means less road rage, which leads to a more respectful driving culture. Etcetera. Society always has a choice.

[Kadagar_AV]

Finland is not part of Scandinavia...

Finland needs to have another look at their gun laws...

Oh well, for every school shoot out, I noticed that the bullies play a bit more nice for a while... Not everything is bad.

[Viking]

Finland is not part of Scandinavia...

Finland needs to have another look at their gun laws...

Oh well, for every school shoot out, I noticed that the bullies play a bit more nice for a while... Not everything is bad.

It's bound to happen in Scandinavia sooner or later anyway.

[Strike For The South]

Finland is not part of Scandinavia...

Finland needs to have another look at their gun laws...

Oh well, for every school shoot out, I noticed that the bullies play a bit more nice for a while... Not everything is bad.

This has to do with the society at large nothing to do with guns. I can't speak for Finland but here in America I have come to the conclusion that our society makes this happen mainly by the way we retard emotional expression esp. at a young age. I dont understand how people think legal firearms make people go crazy. It doesn't make sense

[Innocentius]

This has to do with the society at large nothing to do with guns. I can't speak for Finland but here in America I have come to the conclusion that our society makes this happen mainly by the way we retard emotional expression esp. at a young age. I dont understand how people think legal firearms make people go crazy. It doesn't make sense

While I do agree about that society bit... well, to use the words of Bill Hicks: "There is no connection between having a gun and shooting somebody with it... And you'd be a fool and a communist to make one."

[Kadagar_AV]

While I do agree about that society bit... well, to use the words of Bill Hicks: "There is no connection between having a gun and shooting somebody with it... And you'd be a fool and a communist to make one."

I can see one connection... if you dont have a gun, you cant shoot anyone...

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I can see one connection... if you dont have a gun, you cant shoot anyone...

Doesn't matter.... He can still kill with a Knife. Yeah, you can disarm him, but he can still kill.

http://gaming.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=13807

He killed people WITH A KNIFE.... I didn't see normal people disarm him (unless I am wrong)....




(article is about if games cause it, but still explains what happened).

[TevashSzat]

This has to do with the society at large nothing to do with guns. I can't speak for Finland but here in America I have come to the conclusion that our society makes this happen mainly by the way we retard emotional expression esp. at a young age. I dont understand how people think legal firearms make people go crazy. It doesn't make sense

Well, I would be perfectly fine with guns easily accessible to all should there be some very strict background/mental state checks of some sort.

But.....the government, as inefficient and mostly incompetent it is, will never be able to enforce it and it is too easy to buy guns illegally so many would say just outlaw guns outright.

"There is no connection between having a gun and shooting somebody with it... And you'd be a fool and a communist to make one."

Well, in China (communist gov), the homicide rate with guns is EXTREMELY low because almost no one has guns. Only higher level police and the army has guns. Other than organized crime, most criminals only use knifes and crowbars and stuff like that which can only do so much damage.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Louis makes a good point about society.

Decades ago we never had this in America. And we had kids legally bring guns to school for target practice and hunting after school

But it's not some BS sort of 'its society's fault because they failed these kids' - society didn't hold these kids accountable enough and didn't scorn and deride the pathetic idea of killing others before killing yourself.

The media hurts too; they give every single killer the fame that helps to attract more.

The names of these killers should never be spoken, no images should ever be shown or analysis into their lives proclaimed, no writings of theirs should be released to the public, no grave should be allowed them. Their lives should be blanked out so that they have less lasting impact on the world than a minimum wage janitor.

CR

[Koga No Goshi]

Louis makes a good point about society.

Decades ago we never had this in America. And we had kids legally bring guns to school for target practice and hunting after school

But it's not some BS sort of 'its society's fault because they failed these kids' - society didn't hold these kids accountable enough and didn't scorn and deride the pathetic idea of killing others before killing yourself.

The media hurts too; they give every single killer the fame that helps to attract more.

The names of these killers should never be spoken, no images should ever be shown or analysis into their lives proclaimed, no writings of theirs should be released to the public, no grave should be allowed them. Their lives should be blanked out so that they have less lasting impact on the world than a minimum wage janitor.

CR

I agree with you but I think what's missing from this argument is that kids don't do it just for fame. I think that kids who have already given up and feel like they will never not feel so angry and helpless and belittled and hopeless then figure well, if I'm going to die anyway, maybe some infamy isn't so bad. Especially if violence can be directed at the people who (rightly or wrongly) they consider responsible for whatever they are feeling. So, as long as society tolerates things like bullying, pecking orders, the alienation and systematic mistreatment of "black sheep" kids in the classroom (nerds misfits whatever) and neighbors, friends, family members and community figures (teachers coworkers etc.) ignore child abuse and child neglect on the part of parents (and it's VERY rare for seriosuly NO ONE to ever know that a child is being abused-- much more likely several people knew but didn't want to get involved) then chiding the shooters after the fact will never solve or stop anything.

[Adrian II]

The names of these killers should never be spoken, no images should ever be shown or analysis into their lives proclaimed, no writings of theirs should be released to the public, no grave should be allowed them. Their lives should be blanked out so that they have less lasting impact on the world than a minimum wage janitor.

Which is totally at odds with your views about individual freedom. Time for a rethink.

I agree with the view that if youngsters perpetrate such horrible crimes it is usually because society has either failed them, failed to stop them, of failed those who would have been able to stop them. But there is no way to build watertight guarantees into society without destryig its very fundament of liberty and individual responsibility.

Crime is here to stay. It will always be a problem. All we can do is try to contain it in such a way that neither crime nor law enforcement stifle the healthy functioning of society.

[Sigurd]

I heard on the radio that the Police had him in for questioning the day before the shooting because of some disturbing youtube videos where he shoots with his Walter P-22 gun and displaying the slogan : "You will die next"...
Not much unlike Pekka last year.

I guess there will not be a third time.

[Fragony]

If you are going to treat it as a social problem you are only inviting more nutjobs to make a statement. It isn't, just a crybaby and a copycat. Feel sorry for the finnish must be very traumatising to have this happening twice in such a small time.

[Kralizec]

My condolences to the families of the victims.

What kind of a sad narcisist do you have to be to show off your gun skilz on youtube before killing several people randomly and cut your miserable life short before people will hold you accountable?

I don't think that there's something specific about Finland that encourages these kinds of things (except lots of guns) and that it's probably copycat behaviour from TV and internet, but that's just my guess.

[Kadagar_AV]

Well, if a guy is making threatening videos on the net, then I find it a bitt odd that the law allows him to keep his weapon...

He was in for questionng by the police ebcause of the videos, but they had no right to take his weapon.

See what happened?

So in this particular case, it is (among other things) a question about the law itself.