Anti-Abortion Hypothetical Question

[Crazed Rabbit]

One of those rights is that if you are born here you are a citizen.

And I don't agree with that. And being born is different from being conceived. It doesn't pose any logical inconsistency; it just seems you're trying some odd new pro-abortion argument.

CR

[Samurai Waki]

Or as Mr. Spock would say: "This query implies an illogical solution"

[Koga No Goshi]

And I don't agree with that. And being born is different from being conceived. It doesn't pose any logical inconsistency; it just seems you're trying some odd new pro-abortion argument.

CR

Let's not start calling out the motivations in each other's closets when we don't know each other, shall we? This is an intellectual exercise, nothing more. Abortion is legal and I do not consider that likely to change; the anti-abortion movement has had 8 years of almost complete control of the branches of government and from a political viewpoint it's fairly obvious that the GOP chooses to use that as a wedge issue and to energize its base, and will probably never actually go through with it. BUt this is neither here nor there. I feel no compelling desire to "dredge up an old pro abortion argument"; I'm pro choice but so is the majority of this country and so are our laws. So let's just keep it civil and in the realm of theoretical yes?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Let's not start calling out the motivations in each other's closets when we don't know each other, shall we? ..... etc.

As Lemur put it, you can have human rights without such rights as the right to vote. Society has long held that many rights come upon reaching the age of majority.

And I oppose anchor-babies as well, so perhaps you could point out any "logical inconsistencies".

CR

[Koga No Goshi]

As Lemur put it, you can have human rights without such rights as the right to vote. Society has long held that many rights come upon reaching the age of majority.

And I oppose anchor-babies as well, so perhaps you could point out any "logical inconsistencies".

CR

Gotcha. That's all I was looking for, a simple answer explaining how you would rationalize human rights at conception but citizenship at birth.

The logical inconsistency is still there; even if you oppose anchor babies, that is the basis upon which someone is a U.S. citizen in law, and human rights being granted at conception would not overturn citizenship granted at birth in courts. I'm not doing an ideological battle with you. We're talking about courts and laws and rule of law and a legal system that makes sense rather than picks and chooses based on expediency. So I'm just looking for a consistent answer.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Gotcha. That's all I was looking for, a simple answer explaining how you would rationalize human rights at conception but citizenship at birth.

I don't think having sex in the USA means the child is a USA citizen.

The logical inconsistency is still there; even if you oppose anchor babies, that is the basis upon which someone is a U.S. citizen in law, and human rights being granted at conception would not overturn citizenship granted at birth in courts.

You can't take part of my answer and ignore the other half (that I oppose anchor babies) and insert the current laws and then say my position is inconsistent.

CR

[Koga No Goshi]

I don't think having sex in the USA means the child is a USA citizen.


You can't take part of my answer and ignore the other half (that I oppose anchor babies) and insert the current laws and then say my position is inconsistent.

CR

Yes I can, because the question was in the context if all laws stayed the same besides recognizing that a human with full human rights has been created at the moment of conception. Your personal disagreement with the 'anchor baby' idea doesn't magically overturn the law that if you are born here, you are a U.S. citizen. So from a legal perspective, the inconsistency (or arguable inconsistency I should say) of yes, we recognize that you have been created and you are now a full human person, but no, until you pop out of the womb you don't have a citizenship is what I am referring to.

The law isn't "well I disagree with this law so I disregard it." I'm looking for legally consistent answers if that makes sense to you. See Lemur's logic for an example.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Legally consistent? You were just talking about logically consistent.

And unless you could change the whole tens of thousands of laws we have in a single stroke, you could never have complete legal consistency.

And I don't agree with that argument anyway. My opinions are legally consistent. Mixing my opinions and current law does not show a legal or logical inconsistency on my part.

CR