I hope you improve the battles

[General Appo]

Not with Foot in charge. :p *runs away*

[Foot]

Its not even that. You think that making buildings is more complicated. Technically, yes they are. However they are connected to nothing else. Units on the otherhand are connected to anything. Want to test stats? You need units. Want to test recruitment? You need units? Want people to be motivated to work? You need units. Want to work campaign balance? You need units.

Ancient Buildings are nothing but aesthetic add-ons, but the units are necessary because they connect to everything else.

Foot

[a completely inoffensive name]

Its not even that. You think that making buildings is more complicated. Technically, yes they are. However they are connected to nothing else. Units on the otherhand are connected to anything. Want to test stats? You need units. Want to test recruitment? You need units? Want people to be motivated to work? You need units. Want to work campaign balance? You need units.

Ancient Buildings are nothing but aesthetic add-ons, but the units are necessary because they connect to everything else.

Foot

Well I would have a clue what exactly the priorities the EB team would be if I was around when EBI was first released but I wasn't. I haven't seen exactly what has been added for every new version so now with the first release of EBII being developed I have no clue what to expect.

In the first version of EBI was there a script? Was it added soon after or in later versions? Was it just bare basics (units, buildings, factions, settlements and map)? Or did it have any goodies (i.e. any thing beyond the bare basics)?

I have no clue as to any of these questions, I came in at the beginning of April and enjoyed 1.0 for a week or two before 1.1 came out. I have been assuming all this time that for the majority of the EBI versions the only thing different were fixed bugs, new units and minor changes to the script/trait/EDU/other data files.

Can you enlighten me Foot or someone send me a comprehensive list of each version and its main additions/changes so I can make educated assumptions as to what to expect from EBII when it is first released and how long it would take to get to that stage I am familiar playing with on 1.1 EBI?

[Tellos Athenaios]

You can read the wikipedia article, or grab yourself an old copy of the first ever EB open beta 0.72? Be sure to install 0.72 on an RTW 1.2. It will enlighten.

[a completely inoffensive name]

You can read the wikipedia article, or grab yourself an old copy of the first ever EB open beta 0.72? Be sure to install 0.72 on an RTW 1.2. It will enlighten.

I have read the wikipedia article, its coverage on updates is not quite adequate in my opinion:

"The earliest known internal alpha release of the modification, version 0.6.2, was completed in June 2005. The first public release of the modification, version 0.7.2, which marked its transition into a public open beta phase of development and was developed for patch 1.2 of Rome: Total War, came on 27 December 2005. After three more relatively minor releases in the month of March of 2006 which mostly fixed bugs and made small adjustments in the modification, the next major release of Europa Barbarorum was version 0.80 on 6 December 2006. The release marked the start of the 0.8.x series of releases, as well as being the first Europa Barbarorum release for patch 1.5 of Rome: Total War. It included the addition of the Sabaean faction, new music, the addition of the provisional military government level, the inclusion of a new MIC system and other changes. The release of version 0.8 was also announced by the Europa Barbarorum development team on a third-party computer modification review website. There subsequently followed three more minor 0.8.x releases during the first half of 2007, all three of which primarily made minor adjustments to the modification and fixed bugs. All in all, over 135,000 downloads of the 0.80-0.81 versions were tracked.
The next major release after 0.80 was version 1.0. The Europa Barbarorum development team skipped any 0.9.x releases in order to make the modification appear as though it was no longer in the beta phase, which they felt it had left by 1.0's release. Version 1.0 was released on October 12 2007 and included new government options for the Pahlava and Hayasdan factions, the addition of a new type of wall to the battlemap, new units, new music from Prehistoric Music Ireland, a more challenging start to campaigns for the player and other changes. The 1.0 version was downloaded over 90,000 times in the six months following its release.
The current release is version 1.1, which was released on April 7 2008 and included new battle map landscapes, new units, the addition of the Pahlavi voicemod and the inclusion of an introduction video for the Saka Rauka faction.
The next Europa Barbarorum release being worked on for Rome: Total War by the Europa Barbarorum development team is version 1.2. Although the development team has previously stated that future releases of Europa Barbarorum for the Rome: Total War engine will not include any major new gameplay changes, version 1.2 is expected to contain the addition of the Punic voicemod as well as bug fixes."

What I got out of these three paragraphs that I had not known was:

.62 first version
.72 first openly released version
.80 upgrade to 1.5, saba, new music, different govs added
All other upgrades between these three were mostly bug fixes.

Having played 1.0 and 1.1, I know the improvements those two made. Still have no clue on when script came into being, but the other things I was curious about, (music and govs) I now know when they were at least first included.

I have no idea where I could find a place that still hosts the .72 version of EB but I would like to play it. Can anyone just answer me on the last thing I have yet to find out: When did the script come around? Thanks.

[Ludens]

The script was already present in 0.72, although some functions (like the client rulers) only came into being later.

[a completely inoffensive name]

The script was already present in 0.72, although some functions (like the client rulers) only came into being later.

Thank you Ludens.

[Scundoo]

Ok, this has to do with improving battles sort of, and I didn't want to start a whole new post about it. Now, I know that the fighting in EB1 is much slower than in RTW. That I take it is much more historical, most troops focusing on staying alive rather than stabbing all over the place. The morale though seems a bit too high there. It's very hard to get a rout going, a chain rout at least. That results in battlefield tactics changing a bit, since getting surrounded at a point, or having an enemy breakthrough somewhere is not all the decisive (which as I see it it should be). Instead of trying to maintain an unbreakable front to the enemy, you end up using small detached units. Well, not exactly so, getting flanked is still a bad idea, but not as destructive as it would be (and should be imo) because the morale seems a bit too high to me.
Anyway, will the morale be lowered in EB2?

Oh, and if MTW2 uses experience chevrons and weapon upgrades, will those be removed from the multiplayer edu? So that when we have a mp battle the stats won't be skewed.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Ok, this has to do with improving battles sort of, and I didn't want to start a whole new post about it. Now, I know that the fighting in EB1 is much slower than in RTW. That I take it is much more historical, most troops focusing on staying alive rather than stabbing all over the place.

I really have not noticed if EBI has slower fighting, is that true or is it just lag because EB is well... EB size.

It's very hard to get a rout going, a chain rout at least. That results in battlefield tactics changing a bit, since getting surrounded at a point, or having an enemy breakthrough somewhere is not all the decisive (which as I see it it should be). Instead of trying to maintain an unbreakable front to the enemy, you end up using small detached units. Well, not exactly so, getting flanked is still a bad idea, but not as destructive as it would be (and should be imo) because the morale seems a bit too high to me.
Anyway, will the morale be lowered in EB2?

Its not that hard to create a chain rout, you just need to be quick about it. Gang up on one side, take out the captain/general and use your best friend cavalry to hit them from behind. Works every time.

[Foot]

We have reduced the lethality stat in EBI compared to what it was in RTW. That means people get hit just the same, but don't die as easily. This is what Scundoo refers to. We have also slowed down the walking (but not the animation as I believe that was somehow impossible to change). However the attack animations are the same speed as they are in RTW.

Foot

[ludwag]

just one simple question, is i possible to have huger unit sizes in eb 2. or is it hard to make that? not from the options, but from the codes.

[Foot]

maximum size in Kingdoms is 250, compared to RTWs 240. But that is as high as we can go (and thats on huge unit sizes).

Foot

[bovi]

I could have sworn I saw a unit of 512 in a screenshot somewhere. Perhaps that was a savegame hack though.

[Foot]

yup that was a savegame hack.

Foot

[The General]

So, smaller battle maps, less maneuvering, more frontal butchering?

[ludwag]

So, smaller battle maps, less maneuvering, more frontal butchering?

yeah. makes is more hard to flank, than just running around the enemy and charge from behind, one of my friends does. he is very noob, and he makes noob-boxes, to prevent the enemy from flanking him. And it works :( If the map was smaller, things like this would be harder.

But i just got an idea. If you make all units run slower. Then it would be much more difficult to do stupid manuevers.

[Parallel Pain]

I think that has less to do with the map and more to do with the AI.

Sending your cavalry off on a wild flanking move would dangerously isolate the cavalry and leave a hole in the flank uncovered. I used to send my cavalry off all the time because the AI won't take advantage of my weakened position.

But once I started MP I no longer send them. My friend did and I left a token force to cover my flank and smashed through the hole created when he did that and he lost bad.

The only time a wild flanking maneuver worked in MP that I personaly saw was during a 2 on 2 in XGM when the flanking move was by a huge group of twelve companion cataphracts. And the only reason it worked was because the companion cataphracts are overpowered for their prices and no unit on my team can kill them. But we wiped their infantry off the map.

So I say it's not the map size. It's large enough for battles (though not pre-engagement-maneuvering). For battles the only thing wrong with the map itself is terrain bonus and penalty (units in bad terrain doesn't recieve enough penalty, too easy to move to a high elevation, etc). For the problem you identified the problem is the AI's inability to identify weak points in the player's line and exploit it: drive through a unprotected flank, surround isolated groups, send heavy cav plowing through a weak single line that has no reserves, etc.

[Ibrahim]

welcome back parallel pain. long tome no see.

anyways, I;d have to agree with him on his post.

[ludwag]

I get you point very good. Pre-engagement-manuevring was a good thing to keep in mind.

[Parallel Pain]

welcome back parallel pain. long tome no see.

Good to be back, but I won't be here for long.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I get you point very good. Pre-engagement-manuevring was a good thing to keep in mind.

I never do any pre engagement maneuvering unless its MP. I hope the EB team can make the AI for EBII smart enough to make sure I never say the previous statement ever again.